The case for floyd higher on ATG list than Duran

[THEFRESHBRAWLER]

Yes, I've stepped in the ring before and have fought. I didn't do it full-time or get paid but I'm sure I've seen more hours in the ring than most on this site. I bolded the Benavidez for LOL and you are accusing ME of being a Wikipedia fan. LOL.

WILFRED BENITEZ beat the great Antonio Cervantes and hall of fame fighter Carlos Palamino to win his 140 and 147 titles respectively. He dominated Palamino and to beat Cervantes, who's a great fighter at the age of 17 is so impressive. He also looked very, very good in those fights. Ignore the boxrec split decision in the Palamino fight the fight was not close and even the judge admitted the sun was in his eyes when explaining his ludicrous scorecard.

Canelo has looked a lot better in his late 20's than his early 20's that's for sure and he's not a great fighter anyway. A good one but not in the class of a Cervantes let alone a Hearns, Hagler or Duran.

Leonard-Hearns I was not a catch-weight bout, no. I'm glad I could clear that up for you. Yeah, his light-heavyweight championship is bogus but it's not really factored in when we talk about Leonard as some great accomplishment. It's his overall game and his fights with Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler which come up far more than Lalonde.

Nobody is saying these older fighters are invincible. No fighter is but you are obviously a wins and losses boxrec guy so do you subscribe to Joey Maxim being better than Robinson and Calzaghe greater than Jones and Hopkins based on what you've posted in here? Is Marciano better than Louis and Ali? I think you are grossly overrating modern fighters to prop up your own agendas.

SRR win over homicide hank is better than anything on Joey Maxim resume that fluke win over SRR means nothing. And I would never say Marciano is better than Joe Louis. What’s that got to do with Roberto Duran though? Seems like smoke and mirrors.

[chrisJS]

Marquez had fought at 126 when Floyd was at 154

Floyd first fight at 154(he didn’t weigh in at 154 lol) was in 2012 Márquez fought Pacquio for the welterweight title in 2011 and then again in 2012 at welterweight. Your math is a little off

Great win for Floyd coming off of a 2 year layoff. Great win. Historians dont look at SRL winning the LHW title like that so don’t see how that can be used against Floyd. Rigo moves up 2 weight classes also for Lomachenco and that’s his best win.

Marquez was at 126 in 2007 when Floyd was at 154 in 2007 is my point.

I don't think that's Loma's best win. I was stunned so many picked him to win and those that did have to be accountable for that pick and give Loma his credit but myself I nailed the pick I didn't think Loma would lose around and figured Rigo would quit.

I don't hear too many historians lavishing much praise on Leonard for the Lalonde win and the bogus two title fight. It barely even crossed my mind when I'm assessing Leonard.

[chrisJS]

SRR win over homicide hank is better than anything on Joey Maxim resume that fluke win over SRR means nothing. And I would never say Marciano is better than Joe Louis. What’s that got to do with Roberto Duran though? Seems like smoke and mirrors.

Armstong was completely washed up and hadn't been great in years. That is not a better win. I believe Robinson didn't even want to fight him because he loved Armstrong and Armstrong said "If you love me so much you'll fight me" aka "I need the money". Maxim had wins like Jimmy Bivins, Gus Lesnevich, Jersey Joe Walcott, a young Floyd Patterson to name a few. All better wins than the ghost of Armstrong who was purely a name at that point much the way Mosley was purely a name for Canelo and Pacquaio.

Marciano beat Joe Louis, beat Walcott far better than Louis did, beat Charles which Louis couldn't and retired undefeated. If you contend that Hearns and Hagler beat Hagler because they are better fighters in general then surely the same logic applies? I personally rate Louis MUCH higher but I'm just referencing a point you made earlier which was wrong.

[THEFRESHBRAWLER]

Armstong was completely washed up and hadn't been great in years. That is not a better win. I believe Robinson didn't even want to fight him because he loved Armstrong and Armstrong said "If you love me so much you'll fight me" aka "I need the money". Maxim had wins like Jimmy Bivins, Gus Lesnevich, Jersey Joe Walcott, a young Floyd Patterson to name a few. All better wins than the ghost of Armstrong who was purely a name at that point much the way Mosley was purely a name for Canelo and Pacquaio.

Marciano beat Joe Louis, beat Walcott far better than Louis did, beat Charles which Louis couldn't and retired undefeated. If you contend that Hearns and Hagler beat Hagler because they are better fighters in general then surely the same logic applies? I personally rate Louis MUCH higher but I'm just referencing a point you made earlier which was wrong.

Who did Joey Maxim beat that could even be compared to Hank? That win over SRR was a FLUKE. He lost to Archie Moore like 10 times. How in the world is Joey Maxim better than SRR. You’ve lost me now. I think you’re just disagreeing to disagree. Jake LaMotta George Costner Georgie Abrams I could go
on and on. He is not better than SRR in my opinion . Gus Lesnevich was one of my coaches favorite fighters he was old when he fought Joey. Floyd Patterson is a great win tho but by your logic Patterson was waaay out of his prime as he was still a teenager. Most of those fighters you mentioned beat him to let’s not leave that out.

[THEFRESHBRAWLER]

m. If you contend that Hearns and Hagler beat Hagler because they are better fighters in general then surely the same logic applies?

Lol What are you talking about?

[chrisJS]

Who did Joey Maxim beat that could even be compared to Hank? That win over SRR was a FLUKE. He lost to Archie Moore like 10 times. How in the world is Joey Maxim better than SRR. You’ve lost me now. I think you’re just disagreeing to disagree. Jake LaMotta George Costner Georgie Abrams I could go
on and on. He is not better than SRR in my opinion . Gus Lesnevich was one of my coaches favorite fighters he was old when he fought Joey. Floyd Patterson is a great win tho but by your logic Patterson was waaay out of his prime as he was still a teenager. Most of those fighters you mentioned beat him to let’s not leave that out.

I didn't say he is I am using your point against you when you said Duran lost to middleweights simply because he's not as good as them nothing to do with age and size.

The Armstrong win really didn't mean a great deal for Robinson but Robinson has a TON of great wins that's just not one. Both are in my top 3 all-time fighters most likely. Losing to Archie Moore isn't that bad. Nobody ever beat Moore in a title fight at 175 and Moore is a top 20 all-time level fighter.

[THEFRESHBRAWLER]

Marquez was at 126 in 2007 when Floyd was at 154 in 2007 is my point.

I don't think that's Loma's best win. I was stunned so many picked him to win and those that did have to be accountable for that pick and give Loma his credit but myself I nailed the pick I didn't think Loma would lose around and figured Rigo would quit.

I don't hear too many historians lavishing much praise on Leonard for the Lalonde win and the bogus two title fight. It barely even crossed my mind when I'm assessing Leonard.

Actually Floyd last fight in 2007 was at welterweight. Only reason he fought at 154 because he was forced to do that and wear bigger gloves along with several other demands but he didn’t complain or make excuses? Nope he just beat the much bigger man at a weight class he never fought at and became the bigges star in boxing history. And he only had like 2 fights at Welterweight before he moved up to middleweight and beat Oscar which is another great win for Floyd considering many picked him to lose

[chrisJS]

Actually Floyd last fight in 2007 was at welterweight. Only reason he fought at 154 because he was forced to do that and wear bigger gloves along with several other demands but he didn’t complain or make excuses? Nope he just beat the much bigger man at a weight class he never fought at and became the bigges star in boxing history. And he only had like 2 fights at Welterweight before he moved up to middleweight and beat Oscar which is another great win for Floyd considering many picked him to lose

It was junior middleweight and De La Hoya who started at 130 himself was clearly past his best. He'd only fought once in three years and I feel he deserved the W that night as did Floyd's dad.

Anyway done with the Floyd talk. I really get bored of it like I said his fans just get too dismissive of others and have to tell people he's god, the goat and would never lose ever ever ever and if you disagree you're a a casual etc; etc;. I love talking boxing history but I'm frankly tired of talking Floyd and with his fans.

Peace.

[THEFRESHBRAWLER]

Nobody ever beat Moore in a title fight at 175 and Moore is a top 20 all-time level fighter.

That’s because everytime he fought Ezzard Charles one of the most under rated fighters it was a non title fight lol.

[THEFRESHBRAWLER]

I didn't say he is I am using your point against you when you said Duran lost to middleweights simply because he's not as good as them nothing to do with age and size.

The Armstrong win really didn't mean a great deal for Robinson but Robinson has a TON of great wins that's just not one. Both are in my top 3 all-time fighters most likely. Losing to Archie Moore isn't that bad. Nobody ever beat Moore in a title fight at 175 and Moore is a top 20 all-time level fighter.

“I didn't say he is I am using your point against you when you said Duran lost to middleweights simply because he's not as good as them nothing to do with age and size.”

He lost to Welterweights also so what’s your excuse for that wasn’t Laing a welterweight pretty much his entire career lol


Does a 35 year old Floyd lose to Robbie Sims like Duran did? Does a 31 year old Floyd lost to Kirkland Laing? Hełł no! I don’t see how y’all be saying some of these newer fighters can’t beat the old school fighters when some of them have been beaten by lesser opponents. Do you think Robbie Sims or Kirkland Laing is better than Floyd? End of discussion