HBO IS DEAD THEIR OBSESSION WITH EE FIGHTERS KILLED It

[The D3vil]

They'd have had the chance at the mainstream cuz lotsa cats fought on regular TV back in the day.



Think you aren't understanding me. I'm flipping Ali & SRL to today & Tank & dem to the past. My point isn't their talent cuz I think Ali is overrated as f#ck & idk that we know how great the Charlo's & Tank can be yet. My point is about how things were different back then & highly talented fighters fought on regular TV all the time back then & therefore had a bigger presence in the hearts & minds of mainstream boxing fans vs the hardcores who support guys now.



Ali wouldn't be Ali if he was around today. He'd be Broner taking IG pics of himself sh^tting & flipping out on Uber drivers. Ali would be fighting mfers in strip clubs. Ali in 2018 ain't the same mfer he was in 1960 & probably would be banned from twitter.



I disagree with your point. SRL gots a sex tape if he's around in 2018. This is a different time. No one would be Ali or SRL in this era. That corny good guy sh^t don't play the same way.

Not to mention if Ali was around today he's fighting on HBO to a much smaller audience then he did for his whole career & his biggest fights are on PPV for 1M people give or take. And there is no Vietnam war protest to get Ali into appreciated territory at the end of his career like he did back in the day.

How Ali could be overrated when he's got the best resume in the history of the HW division is beyond me, but that's besides the point.

Leonard and Ali were charismatic. That's would be the case in 1950 or 2018. It doesnt matter. Muhammad Ali is quoted just like Ghandi or MLK are. You think Broner and Charlo are that smart and witty?

And they're not as smart and articulate as Sugar Ray Leonard either.

So yeah, Ali and Leonard would have dirt on them. They did in their time too.

Are you forgetting Ali joined a Black separatist group that hated White people and was the most hated man in America?

I'm sorry, there's nothing in 2018 that could get him in that much trouble as he was during the Vietnam era.

And we all knew Sugar Ray had a coke problem back in the '80s. Fine, but he still would be a smart and articulate guy in any era with transcendent boxing skills.

Broner and Davis are not that. If you put Broner, a weight bully who's lost to every decent fighter he fought in the '60s, he wouldn't even be a gatekeeper and Davis might be a gatekeeper if that in most past eras.

And yes, boxing was more mainstream, but that's because of guys personalities as well.

Ali in 2018 would be a combination of LeBron, The Rock, and Kendrick Lamar or something. A controversial, rapping, movie star, activist, and athletic marvel. A star is a star in any era, even without boxing being as big as it was, his personality would carry him. Leonard too.

I agree with you about us not knowing how great the Charlos and Davis will be, but just think about this.

By the time Ali was 25, he had already beaten 1 of the 10 greatest HWs of all-time twice in Liston, and 2 hall of famers in Floyd Patterson & Archie Moore.

They're not producing people like that anymore.

Until we in America start producing special guys on that level again, boxing's not gonna be mainstream.

[kidbazooka]

Hbo did kind put all their chips into guys like kova,Loma and ggg but now that they have been exposed or gone they are panicking.

They need to get rid of the head of hbo boxing and find someone who knows about the sport because they can mold a guy like Munguia into another Mexican star

[Curt Henning]

Right.



But why would guys like the Tanks and Broners and Charlos of the world be out there in the mainstream?

They're not transcendent talents like Floyd, Ali, Tyson, etc. . . and they don't fight anywhere near enough to maintain a real presence, and they just come off as unlikeable 90% of the time.

Bud Crawford and Errol Spence are the closest things we have to transcendent talents, right now, but unfortunately the promoter wars are gonna make it too hard for them to get the fights to become big stars and they don't have big personalities to make up for that fact.

Sugar Ray Leonard and Muhammad Ali would be bigger stars today.

Just imagine Muhammad Ali with Twitter?

Imagine what he'd be saying about Donald Trump? or Tyson Fury? or Deontay Wilder or Anthony Joshua?

He'd be in movies, TV shows. He would've definitely made a rap album by now.

Sugar Ray Leonard was handsome, articulate, came off as clean cut and was entertaining to watch at the same time.

That's my point. American boxing's not creating guys like that anymore to be promoted by anybody.



I wasn't comparing Broner & Tank to Ali & Leonard in talent.

trust me..i didnt figure u were...nobody is that stupid...lol

[Eff Pandas]

How Ali could be overrated when he's got the best resume in the history of the HW division is beyond me, but that's besides the point.

Leonard and Ali were charismatic. That's would be the case in 1950 or 2018. It doesnt matter. Muhammad Ali is quoted just like Ghandi or MLK are. You think Broner and Charlo are that smart and witty?

I'm not even getting into the Ali stuff in this thread cuz I've talked about it a bunch here already, but Ali got more L's then 5 if you've watched his fights first off. Anyone talking about Canelo getting gifts & he ain't sh^t better not talk to me about how epic Ali was cuz Ali got a bunch of gifts.

What I'm saying is Ali & SRL aren't Ali & SRL if they are around today. They would be fighting to less fans watching & Ali specifically would have no great battle with the government which is one of the things that made him appreciated by fans. He's be hanging out with that dude with 69's tattooed all over his body.

Are you forgetting Ali joined a Black separatist group that hated White people and was the most hated man in America?

No I'm thinking of that exact sh^t. And how much MORE hate he'd get today cuz more people have opinions to give on SM. There's be all kinda of f#cked up memes on Ali.

Broner and Davis are not that. If you put Broner, a weight bully who's lost to every decent fighter he fought in the '60s, he wouldn't even be a gatekeeper and Davis might be a gatekeeper if that in most past eras.

Again man you are losing the narrative in the names. Throw Spence in there. Throw Floyd in there. Throw Fury in there. If cats from now were around back then & talented they'd be bigger to the mainstream audience. And Ali & big fighters back then around now would be much smaller. Boxing was a more mainstream sport back then & boxing is more niche now.

And yes, boxing was more mainstream, but that's because of guys personalities as well.

No it wasn't. Ali isn't Ali if only 1M people are watching his fights. He'd be getting suspended by WBC guy for calling mfers racial sh^t lol. I don't even think he'd be the same type of cat cuz the whole world is different now then back then. He wouldn't be so militant coming up in this era cuz that sh^t don't even exist now like it did back then. And maybe guys from now ARE more thoughtful if they were around in that more compelling era for different reasons. There are so many variables in play then just the things then either of us could bring up with highly speculative sh^t like this. But mainly my point is what someone is or isn't the upside of guys around now would be bigger back then & guys from back then would have lower ceilings.

By the time Ali was 25, he had already beaten 1 of the 10 greatest HWs of all-time twice in Liston, and 2 hall of famers in Floyd Patterson & Archie Moore.

They're not producing people like that anymore.

Until we in America start producing special guys on that level again, boxing's not gonna be mainstream.

I think you aren't thinking about this scenario in a real way. If Ali was around now he'd be with PBC & Liston would be with Arum & that fight wouldn't have happened til Ali was probably 29 or older. If guys now were allowed to fight the best guys as soon as they were showing up on the world scene who f#cking knows who'd be big or larger then life. Guys around today don't have the same opportunity to show their greatness as guys around back then cuz it was more fight by fight then it is now with guys having to sign long term sketchy ass contracts to be able to get some opportunity in the game.

[The D3vil]

I'm not even getting into the Ali stuff in this thread cuz I've talked about it a bunch here already, but Ali got more L's then 5 if you've watched his fights first off. Anyone talking about Canelo getting gifts & he ain't sh^t better not talk to me about how epic Ali was cuz Ali got a bunch of gifts.

What I'm saying is Ali & SRL aren't Ali & SRL if they are around today. They would be fighting to less fans watching & Ali specifically would have no great battle with the government which is one of the things that made him appreciated by fans. He's be hanging out with that dude with 69's tattooed all over his body.



No I'm thinking of that exact sh^t. And how much MORE hate he'd get today cuz more people have opinions to give on SM. There's be all kinda of f#cked up memes on Ali.



Again man you are losing the narrative in the names. Throw Spence in there. Throw Floyd in there. Throw Fury in there. If cats from now were around back then & talented they'd be bigger to the mainstream audience. And Ali & big fighters back then around now would be much smaller. Boxing was a more mainstream sport back then & boxing is more niche now.



No it wasn't. Ali isn't Ali if only 1M people are watching his fights. He'd be getting suspended by WBC guy for calling mfers racial sh^t lol. I don't even think he'd be the same type of cat cuz the whole world is different now then back then. He wouldn't be so militant coming up in this era cuz that sh^t don't even exist now like it did back then. And maybe guys from now ARE more thoughtful if they were around in that more compelling era for different reasons. There are so many variables in play then just the things then either of us could bring up with highly speculative sh^t like this. But mainly my point is what someone is or isn't the upside of guys around now would be bigger back then & guys from back then would have lower ceilings.



I think you aren't thinking about this scenario in a real way. If Ali was around now he'd be with PBC & Liston would be with Arum & that fight wouldn't have happened til Ali was probably 29 or older. If guys now were allowed to fight the best guys as soon as they were showing up on the world scene who f#cking knows who'd be big or larger then life. Guys around today don't have the same opportunity to show their greatness as guys around back then cuz it was more fight by fight then it is now with guys having to sign long term sketchy ass contracts to be able to get some opportunity in the game.

I get what you're saying, but a star is a star.

Of course Ali & Leonard would be controversial, but even with that, the personalities would carry them through man.

Why would Ali have 69 tattoos.

Does LeBron James?
Does Serena Williams?
Does Dwyane Wade?

Hell, I"m Black and from the hood and I have zero tattoos.

And you keep putting Ali's popularity down to his Vietnam stance and his militant stances, but he was more popular because he was funny as hell.

Dude was stand up comedy level funny and was clever and smart.

He was an entertainer. That transcends time and era.



Look at guys like Tyson Fury and Conor McGregor.

Look at how being funny, a little crazy has taken them from zero to the top of their careers.

Ali was funnier, crazier, and more talented.

If that guy was walking around today, even with whatever issues he might get himself into, that would make him and the sport bigger.

Meanwhile, Tank Davis just got arrested again.



Gervonta Davis Charged With Disorderly Conduct

[Sugar Adam Ali]

HBO only wanted boxing because it brought eyeballs, now it doesn’t bring eyeballs.

They went from like 25 headliners in the 80s, to 20 headliners in the 90s, to a dozen in the 2000s, and now basically down to canelo as a legit big time draw. As boxings popularity declined in America, so has hbos budget for it

[Eff Pandas]

I get what you're saying, but a star is a star.

Not in the context of eras. A star today is much less then a star back in the day just cuz boxers aren't known as well today cuz boxing went to premium cable where less people can view it.

Why would Ali have 69 tattoos.

I said he'd be hanging with that dude with all the 69 tattoos not having 69 tattoos. He wouldn't be down with no Malcolm X type cats thats for f#cking sure.

If that guy was walking around today, even with whatever issues he might get himself into, that would make him and the sport bigger.

Meanwhile, Tank Davis just got arrested again.

I don't necessarily think so. I think his ceiling is waaaaay lower if he was coming out now or in the last 10-20 years. People wouldn't even be hearing him like that to know he was funny. And maybe Tank is hanging out with Malcolm X if he was around in the 60's vs at strip clubs & getting educated on the world more like Ali was able to do.

[The D3vil]

Not in the context of eras. A star today is much less then a star back in the day just cuz boxers aren't known as well today cuz boxing went to premium cable where less people can view it.



I said he'd be hanging with that dude with all the 69 tattoos not having 69 tattoos. He wouldn't be down with no Malcolm X type cats thats for f#cking sure.



I don't necessarily think so. I think his ceiling is waaaaay lower if he was coming out now or in the last 10-20 years. People wouldn't even be hearing him like that to know he was funny. And maybe Tank is hanging out with Malcolm X if he was around in the 60's vs at strip clubs & getting educated on the world more like Ali was able to do.

Just because boxing isn't as popular doesn't mean that Ali would be.

Floyd Mayweather is technically the most successful fighter in the history of the sport in terms of drawing.

You don't think Ali with his personality and charm along with him being a heavyweight could be a bigger star than Floyd Mayweather?

And why wouldn't Ali be down with Black Lives Matter? Why would a guy like him be with the thugs. He'd be down with the same type of Black people he was around before, which is conscious Black people.

You act like we're not in an era of Black activism again as we speak.

And why wouldn't Tank be down with thugs in the '60s?

Sonny Liston and Rocky Marciano hung out with gangsters all the time.

Gangsters killed Liston, FFS.

People generally are who they are.

[Eff Pandas]

Just because boxing isn't as popular doesn't mean that Ali would be.

Floyd Mayweather is technically the most successful fighter in the history of the sport in terms of drawing.

You don't think Ali with his personality and charm along with him being a heavyweight could be a bigger star than Floyd Mayweather?

I don't think todays fans would appreciate a HW who's best weapon is a jab & who goes the distance so much. Ali is a better version of Chris Byrd if he was around today & he might only be a top 20ish guy cuz the size issue is a problem & his power not keeping opponents honest.

And why wouldn't Ali be down with Black Lives Matter? Why would a guy like him be with the thugs. He'd be down with the same type of Black people he was around before, which is conscious Black people.

You act like we're not in an era of Black activism again as we speak.

Its not the same now as it was back then doe.

And why wouldn't Tank be down with thugs in the '60s?

Sonny Liston and Rocky Marciano hung out with gangsters all the time.

I'd doubt gangsters would hang with a 8th grader sized dude.

[mrpain81]

It was their obsession with cutting the budget, in 1999 their budget was $100 million, this year it was probably less then $10 million.

Good riddance imo.