Who is Fury Lineal For?

[_Rexy_]

That's pretty much how it's always worked. The boxing media and public recognizes two fighters are #1 and #2 and they fight to fill the vacancy.

I considered Klitschko's claim suspect because Chagaev was #3, not #2, but the media & public chose to make an exception since the Klitschko brothers were never going to fight each other.

My personal opinion or your personal opinion of who is "lineal" is irrelevant. Lineal is a concept of public recognition. Fury is considered the lineal champion and therefore he is.

correct me if i'm wrong though, but at the time of Wlad v Fury, were they not ranked 1 & 2? So even if the Chagaev fight didn't count, it could be argued that no matter what a new lineage started at Fury...

[N/A]

correct me if i'm wrong though, but at the time of Wlad v Fury, were they not ranked 1 & 2? So even if the Chagaev fight didn't count, it could be argued that no matter what a new lineage started at Fury...

When Wladimir defended against Fury, many had Povetkin ranked above Fury. It was not a consensus 1 vs 2 match up.

In the end, it doesn't matter. The public & media considered Klitschko lineal, therefore he was. The public & media now consider Fury lineal, therefore he is.

[jas]

he didnt vacate his belts and take time off to avoid fighting someone like canelo did

he did so because of personal issues

he is the lineal champion

[DARKSEID]

He's undoubtedly the Lineal Champ. He beat Wlad and he's still active and undefeated.

[buge]

Fury was lineal champion.

He was suspended, perhaps semi-retired for a couple years, so the lineage was open in case he never came back. Nobody claimed lineage while he was gone.

Fury comes back, and nobody else has a claim of lineal champion. Lineal should go back to him. Why wouldn't it? Why should it still be open? Any "rule" saying it should be open is a dumb rule, and I thus proclaim it invalid.

The alphabet orgs stripped him because they can't make money if he's suspended/retired. Lineal champions don't have to also have an alphabet belt.

[Raggamuffin]

We keep hearing that he is lineal champion (the tall black guy on BT let me down, as he is normally unbiased and knowledgeable), but how is that? For the last 3 decades, the lineal championship has been intertwined with The Ring magazine. Wladimir's lineal title was The Ring belt, which Fury won, ye according to The Ring, Fury is now ranked 10th and the lineal title is vacant.

Boxrec, the world's largest boxing database, also has the lineal title vacant. Anthony Joshua tops the rankings in the division for both organisations. The other body that modern boxing fans like to bring up, TBRB, also has their champion as vacant, with AJ ranked as the top guy. With the governing body belts mainly in the hands of AJ, and a single belt in the hand of Wilder, what title is Fury holding?

The final argument presented is that Fury has never lost, thus did not lose this so called "lineal" title, but, according to Fury himself, he retired. When one retires, all titles are automatically relinquished, including the faceless/beltless/organisation-less lineal title haha.

So, beyond simply saying the word, how is Fury, a man currently fighting the bottom of the sc****s of the barrel, a lineal champion?

I mean, logically, Marciano should still be lineal heavyweight champion if Fury can be.

Have you no shame, lmao. ****en one of the most pathetic conclusions of thought that I've ever seen a halfwit post on a boxing message board, lmao.

[Scipio2009]

So you're saying Wlad wasn't lineal champion? The reality is everyone viewed him as such after his win over Chagaev. He was also owner of all but one of the belts, which obviously makes sense since he wouldnt fight his own brother. On top of all that, he faced and beat every worthy challenger during his reign.

If Wlad isn't lineal, then Fury clearly isn't. Is that the point you're making?

And in terms of the WBC, yes it is nothing more than a paper belt, because AJ is the recognised champion by every other organisation and has a far superior list of wins. Wilder has made a mockery of that belt.

Yes, I'm saying that Wladimir Klitschko wasn't lineal champ. Lennox Lewis was the last lineal champion, and, as with every other time the lineal champion retired with the title, things only got as close as Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko being the only two recognized champions.

When Vitali retired to go and try to save his country, Wladimir Klitschko had every chance to finally secure his lineal title yet didn't.

Anthony Joshua won a vacant title off a guy who saw the IBF's #1 fighter slip on a wet spot and blow out a knee, won vacant WBA and IBO belts by beating, in a great fight, the guy that lost the belts in the first place, and then got the WBO belt from Joseph Parker (whose path to the WBO belt was about as sketch as Joshua's path to the IBF).

Wilder beat Bermaine Stiverne for the WBC title, at the time when Stiverne was a top 5 heavyweight and where some would have him as high as #3, and has defended his title 7 times against solid opposition.

[N/A]

Yes, I'm saying that Wladimir Klitschko wasn't lineal champ. Lennox Lewis was the last lineal champion

You're wrong. It's not a matter of opinion.

You can argue all you want for why Wladimir shouldn't have been considered lineal champion and I actually agree with you.

But the fact is that Wladimir gained recognition as lineal champion, whether your or I like it or not. Most "experts" are idiots. So you or I can explain until the end of time why Wladimir shouldn't have been lineal, but it doesn't matter. Everybody decided that he was.

[soul_survivor]

Yes, I'm saying that Wladimir Klitschko wasn't lineal champ. Lennox Lewis was the last lineal champion, and, as with every other time the lineal champion retired with the title, things only got as close as Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko being the only two recognized champions.

When Vitali retired to go and try to save his country, Wladimir Klitschko had every chance to finally secure his lineal title yet didn't.

Anthony Joshua won a vacant title off a guy who saw the IBF's #1 fighter slip on a wet spot and blow out a knee, won vacant WBA and IBO belts by beating, in a great fight, the guy that lost the belts in the first place, and then got the WBO belt from Joseph Parker (whose path to the WBO belt was about as sketch as Joshua's path to the IBF).

Wilder beat Bermaine Stiverne for the WBC title, at the time when Stiverne was a top 5 heavyweight and where some would have him as high as #3, and has defended his title 7 times against solid opposition.

Loool this is a joke post.

[Tom Cruise]

For me it just depends how seriously you took his retirement announcement. If you took his word for it, then no he isn’t lineal. If not, the yes he is because he’s the man who beat the man and he hasn’t lost in the ring.

That’s the whole point of lineal. It doesn’t mean you are the best fighter, or even that you would be champ in a one belt era. It just means you are the man who beat the man until you lose or retire.