Comments Thread For: Manny Pacquiao - One of The Greatest

[man down]

Get so sick of the PED claims. You trying to tell me other boxers aren't using peds? Why aren't they as bad ass as Manny was? Let me guess, he got a special PED that made him super man.

[Elroy The Great]

[QUOTE=Pacquiaotard86;18936737]

not a fan or a hater but i did enjoy that margarito ''fight''

made sense the caveman would be the only guy above ww pac would take on.

pacs ww resume leaves much to be desired -
lucas
horn (TOP 5 ALL TIME ROBBERY)
vargas
may**
alcherry
bumbum
timmy 3x (2-1. should have been 3-0)
jmm 2x (1-1....1 KTFO !!!)
supershot mosley
margarito
...
clottey
cotto*
Slh !!!

cmon, now. which win was really that impressive ?!?!?

* = if the cotto fight was without a clause, it would have been his best win imho. was there ever an explanation as to why pac demanded it ?????

1-1 vs jmm

what else is there ????

16th fight at ww+ and i dont see the greatness.

** = could have been pacs defining moment had he not been so cheezy way back when.......(/QUOTE)

Actually amazing resume considering hes a former flyweight.

And you forgot Hatton. now that was impressive, knocking out a guy in under 2 rounds, who almost went the distance with the supposedly best boxer in the world.

wtf.....pac fans are so into protecting that status, they refuse to read....

pacs ww resume leaves much to be desired

[pillowfists98]

No question Pacquiao will be remembered as an all time great. His achievements are incredible and in his prime he was one of the most explosive offensive fighters we've ever seen,

[WesternChamp]

I don't feel offended at all. Even the author of the article had to mention Floyd in "a Manny thread," so why can't I?

"No fighter of his era comes close to matching that sparkling resume except perhaps Mayweather, who never lost a fight but didn’t face as many elite opponents as Pacquiao did. For example, Mayweather faced eight opponents in or likely to enter the Hall of Fame (Pacquiao, Canelo Alvarez, Cotto, Mosley, Marquez, Hatton, De La Hoya and Gatti)."

You should be offended by the author of this article, and not me! Lol!

then go make a thread about how he's the greatest fighter. dont spam this thread.

[richardt]

THE PED MYTH:
Pacquiao's mysterious ability to carry ridiculous power up through the weight classes is a really popular talking point by the (for what of a better term) pro-Pacquiao-PED gang, or the PPPs for short.

So let's break down his career into weights and ages, using Pacquiao's full record on Boxrec.

Early Career

Pro debut aged 16 and 1 month, he weighed 106lbs (light flyweight).

4th fight, aged 16, is at 110lbs (flyweight). His first loss is at flyweight, aged 17 as he is knocked out by the 23 year old Torrecampo in February 1996. After a decision victory in his next fight, Pacquiao is 11-1 with 4 kayos. That's a 30% knockout ratio.

112lbs + First World Title

He then goes on a knockout run culminating in winning his first world title, aged 18, the WBC flyweight title. Only 1 opponent makes it the distance in 14 fights. In his third defense of the title, Pacquiao misses weight and is knocked out with a body shot by rising Thai prospect Singsurat, who is 18-0 and 6 months older than Pacquiao whom attributes the loss to weight draining.

122lbs + Second World Title

Pacquiao then goes up 3 weight divisions for his next fight (yes, 3 - bypassing super flyweight and bantamweight) to successfully challenge for the super bantamweight title in December 1999, on his 21st birthday. He fights 12 times in total at 122lbs, winning all fights by kayo and drawing once in a fight prematurely sent to the scorecards after a cut opened by some awful fouls (how this wasn't a DQ is crazy). He last fights at 122lbs aged 24.

126lbs

His stint at featherweight is brief. He defeats Barrera before being robbed of the title by a judging error in his dramatic draw with Juan Manuel Marquez, as the judge who scores it a draw only awards Pacquiao 10-7 for the first round instead of 10-6. He knocks out one more opponent for a final 126lbs record of 2-0-1 (2 kayos) ages 24-25.

130lbs + 3rd World Title

He debuts at 130lbs aged 26, challenging Morales for his super featherweight titles, suffering defeat at the first time above 112lbs. He rebounds to stop Morales twice but is taken the distance in victories over Marquez, Barrera, and Oscar Larios for a final 130lb record of 7-1 with 4 kayos. His destructive power is already not quite as evident at this weight class albeit he is in with elite opponents on a regular basis.

The Rise That Scared Mayweather

He fought once at lightweight, thrashing Diaz en route to a 9th round stoppage. His next fight is at welterweight against Oscar De La Hoya, who, having had serious problems making weight, is stopped on his stool for an 8th round retirement just short of his 30th birthday.

The next 2 fights set up the Pacquiao "must be on PEDs" myth. At 140lbs, Pacquiao destroys Hatton who is unable to deal with Pacquiao's speed and accuracy. Hatton fought a horrible fight, without defense and wild offense.

147lbs + The Last KO

Pacquiao returns to 147lbs to fight Cotto at a catchweight of 145lbs. Cotto is game and brings the fight to Pacquiao, but pays the price as he is dropped twice before succumbing to a 12th round TKO. It is the last stoppage victory of Pacquiao's career (to date).

At welterweight, against competitive opposition there is only 1 stoppage (Cotto). He came close to getting other stoppages (Margarito, Marquez, Algieri) and has dropped several guys (Mosley, Algieri, Marquez).

Conclusion

I think we can put to bed the notion that Pacquiao's punching power carried unhindered through the weights - one of the core arguments of the PPPs as to why he must have taken PEDs. There is a clear progression of 'power' which peaks at 122lbs. As he climbs above that, his kayo % drops (with insufficient samples at 135/140 to show this) and his stoppages trend towards later in fights after accumulation.

[HURTFEELINGS]

118-110, 118-110, 118-110
19 percent of his total punches (81 of 429) and 27 percent of his power shots (63-236). His jab never found a home, landing just 9 percent of the time (18-193).

Mayweather was just as active, but much more accurate. He landed 34 percent of his total punches (148-435) and an impressive 25 percent of his jabs (67-267). His power shots were less frequent, but more effective, landing at 48 percent effectiveness (81-168).
this proves how great of a fighter TBE was

[Terrell1555]

Manny REMATCH Pacquiao

Genero Hernadez, Castillo, Corralles, remember them? Or did this writer completely forget those guys?

The Qwackman is one of the ATGs I won’t deny that but he needed way to many rematches to get there! Mayweather had the stronger resume particularly cause he didn’t fight the same guys over, and over, he beat them the first time consisively! His wins over Oscar, and Canelo, and Marquez, are 3 wins that by far top any wins on Qwackman ledger. He won two lineal 154lb titles with no catch weights. And he fought more Champions and HOF fighters than Qwack, and beat them all with no loses!

I give this writer credit cause though he came off real typical with his jocking Qwack and playing down Floyd, he did make it clear in the end Floyd is the greater more stand out fighter! He still left a little bit of a nasty taste because he played down Floyd’s resume to play Qwackmans up.

[Boxknowledge75]

THE PED MYTH:
Pacquiao's mysterious ability to carry ridiculous power up through the weight classes is a really popular talking point by the (for what of a better term) pro-Pacquiao-PED gang, or the PPPs for short.

So let's break down his career into weights and ages, using Pacquiao's full record on Boxrec.

Early Career

Pro debut aged 16 and 1 month, he weighed 106lbs (light flyweight).

4th fight, aged 16, is at 110lbs (flyweight). His first loss is at flyweight, aged 17 as he is knocked out by the 23 year old Torrecampo in February 1996. After a decision victory in his next fight, Pacquiao is 11-1 with 4 kayos. That's a 30% knockout ratio.

112lbs + First World Title

He then goes on a knockout run culminating in winning his first world title, aged 18, the WBC flyweight title. Only 1 opponent makes it the distance in 14 fights. In his third defense of the title, Pacquiao misses weight and is knocked out with a body shot by rising Thai prospect Singsurat, who is 18-0 and 6 months older than Pacquiao whom attributes the loss to weight draining.

122lbs + Second World Title

Pacquiao then goes up 3 weight divisions for his next fight (yes, 3 - bypassing super flyweight and bantamweight) to successfully challenge for the super bantamweight title in December 1999, on his 21st birthday. He fights 12 times in total at 122lbs, winning all fights by kayo and drawing once in a fight prematurely sent to the scorecards after a cut opened by some awful fouls (how this wasn't a DQ is crazy). He last fights at 122lbs aged 24.

126lbs

His stint at featherweight is brief. He defeats Barrera before being robbed of the title by a judging error in his dramatic draw with Juan Manuel Marquez, as the judge who scores it a draw only awards Pacquiao 10-7 for the first round instead of 10-6. He knocks out one more opponent for a final 126lbs record of 2-0-1 (2 kayos) ages 24-25.

130lbs + 3rd World Title

He debuts at 130lbs aged 26, challenging Morales for his super featherweight titles, suffering defeat at the first time above 112lbs. He rebounds to stop Morales twice but is taken the distance in victories over Marquez, Barrera, and Oscar Larios for a final 130lb record of 7-1 with 4 kayos. His destructive power is already not quite as evident at this weight class albeit he is in with elite opponents on a regular basis.

The Rise That Scared Mayweather

He fought once at lightweight, thrashing Diaz en route to a 9th round stoppage. His next fight is at welterweight against Oscar De La Hoya, who, having had serious problems making weight, is stopped on his stool for an 8th round retirement just short of his 30th birthday.

The next 2 fights set up the Pacquiao "must be on PEDs" myth. At 140lbs, Pacquiao destroys Hatton who is unable to deal with Pacquiao's speed and accuracy. Hatton fought a horrible fight, without defense and wild offense.

147lbs + The Last KO

Pacquiao returns to 147lbs to fight Cotto at a catchweight of 145lbs. Cotto is game and brings the fight to Pacquiao, but pays the price as he is dropped twice before succumbing to a 12th round TKO. It is the last stoppage victory of Pacquiao's career (to date).

At welterweight, against competitive opposition there is only 1 stoppage (Cotto). He came close to getting other stoppages (Margarito, Marquez, Algieri) and has dropped several guys (Mosley, Algieri, Marquez).

Conclusion

I think we can put to bed the notion that Pacquiao's punching power carried unhindered through the weights - one of the core arguments of the PPPs as to why he must have taken PEDs. There is a clear progression of 'power' which peaks at 122lbs. As he climbs above that, his kayo % drops (with insufficient samples at 135/140 to show this) and his stoppages trend towards later in fights after accumulation.

Good points... Most of Pacs ko's as he went up in weight were from accumulation of punches. The only one that got ko'd with one punch was Hatton who fought pac thinking he could overpower the little man and with no D. After cotto fighters fought him more with caution and some just looking to survive. He's rise up in weight class is natural giving the fact that he was on third world diet in the beginning of his career. When I was 16 I weighed 140lbs at 29 I was 185 and now at almost 43 I'm at 215.... Lost my six pack and everything.

[Boxknowledge75]

Genero Hernadez, Castillo, Corralles, remember them? Or did this writer completely forget those guys?

The Qwackman is one of the ATGs I won’t deny that but he needed way to many rematches to get there! Mayweather had the stronger resume particularly cause he didn’t fight the same guys over, and over, he beat them the first time consisively! His wins over Oscar, and Canelo, and Marquez, are 3 wins that by far top any wins on Qwackman ledger. He won two lineal 154lb titles with no catch weights. And he fought more Champions and HOF fighters than Qwack, and beat them all with no loses!

I give this writer credit cause though he came off real typical with his jocking Qwack and playing down Floyd, he did make it clear in the end Floyd is the greater more stand out fighter! He still left a little bit of a nasty taste because he played down Floyd’s resume to play Qwackmans up.

Floyd just like Pac fought most at the right times. Pacs wins against the same opposition were more impressive in exception of Marquez where Floyd came in heavy and Marquez jumping up 2 weight classes for the first time. Marquez just had Pacs timing down from there very first fight and had 4 fights with him to master it.

[Boxknowledge75]

If a high profile athlete like pac was ever on peds it would've came to light by now. Just like Lance Armstrong. B samples are saved and retested for future use to test for illegal substances that weren't tested for in the past. That's how lance got caught. A big lie cannot be hidden forever