Comments Thread For: De La Hoya: Matthysse Fight May Be The End of Pacquiao

[Tatabanya]

I kinda like you now hahah

Now let our love begin, hahaha!

Seriously - I appreciate when someone tells me something he thinks without calling names or acting macho.

[Mister Wolf]

Hopefully Lucas sparks him out.

[Vinnykin]

Pacquaio deserves a lot of credit for fighting on, his style is about offence and speed.... how many fighters with his style go to 39?

[millcitymauler]

I'm probably twice your age, kid. I was watching boxing live in the early 70s. Shut up.

Maybe try opening your eyes in this century...just a suggestion

[McNulty]

I admire your passion and expertise. But let me tell you, we see different realities. If you think that a fighter is an ATG because women were screaming every time he missed, we're tuned on different stations. Basically you're telling me that someone who has good looks and can fight a bit is an ATG if the hype machine goes behind him.

And, for the record, I never drank or smoked, let alone drugs. And when one of my boxing idols failed I was the first to admit it.

Why are you bringing up ONE COMPONENT to my entire post?

Oscar is an ATG because of his talent and who he beat. He revolutionized the industry more than any one fighter besides Joe Louis in Boxing History. Care to comment feel free.

[Spoon23]

Pacquaio deserves a lot of credit for fighting on, his style is about offence and speed.... how many fighters with his style go to 39?

Respect.

[Tatabanya]

Maybe try opening your eyes in this century...just a suggestion

I did. That's why I can tell you that De La Hoya does not deserve to be called an ATG. I express opinions based on the subtler details after years spent studying the man. I'm not influenced by his amassing of bogus titles and attracting of screaming chicks.

He was a good fighter. Not a great fighter.

[Tatabanya]

Why are you bringing up ONE COMPONENT to my entire post?

Oscar is an ATG because of his talent and who he beat. He revolutionized the industry more than any one fighter besides Joe Louis in Boxing History. Care to comment feel free.

The one component I brought up is the most important to me, since I do not buy into several of your theories. That's not a problem though.

You call it "revolution", I call it "marketing". De La Hoya was a good fighter who was entirely endorsed by the establishment, which made him a marketable commodity.

The fact that you compare him to Joe Louis tells everything I need to know about your way of analysing boxing's history. I do not need to add more. It's like telling that U2 are better musicians than JS Bach because they sold more records.

The point of my affirmation is that you are willingly ignoring the meaning of "hype job". Namely, exaggerating one's abilities with strategical propaganda. De La Hoya DID have abilities, no question about it. I never told he was a bum. But his abilities were, by all means, magnified by the boxing establishment. Of which he naturally became a component after his active career as a fighter.

In synthesis: my idea of ATG is someone like Marvin Hagler, not Oscar De La Hoya. But - as ever - it's a matter of opinions.

Ultimately, on a more personal note, I always perceived De La Hoya as false, a fake keeping his feet in many shoes. I would not be surprised if he himself pursues a political career sooner or later... like Manny Pacquiao, that's right.

[McNulty]

The one component I brought up is the most important to me, since I do not buy into several of your theories. That's not a problem though.

You call it "revolution", I call it "marketing". De La Hoya was a good fighter who was entirely endorsed by the establishment, which made him a marketable commodity.

The fact that you compare him to Joe Louis tells everything I need to know about your way of analysing boxing's history. I do not need to add more. It's like telling that U2 are better musicians than JS Bach because they sold more records.

The point of my affirmation is that you are willingly ignoring the meaning of "hype job". Namely, exaggerating one's abilities with strategical propaganda. De La Hoya DID have abilities, no question about it. I never told he was a bum. But his abilities were, by all means, magnified by the boxing establishment. Of which he naturally became a component after his active career as a fighter.

In synthesis: my idea of ATG is someone like Marvin Hagler, not Oscar De La Hoya. But - as ever - it's a matter of opinions.

Ultimately, on a more personal note, I always perceived De La Hoya as false, a fake keeping his feet in many shoes. I would not be surprised if he himself pursues a political career sooner or later... like Manny Pacquiao, that's right.

Thats how debating works though. I say something you don't agree with, you counter it, so on and so forth.

Joe Louis paved the way for black Boxers, Oscar paved the way for smaller Boxers. How does that compare to JS Bach vs U2? I actually know a lot about JS Bach and the Baroque era, as well as the Classical and Romantic era's. JS Bach one of my favorite composers.

JS died in 1750 and U2 started in 1976. Thats a shade under 200 years. Bachs era didn't even have electricity, and as a matter of fact the world hadn't even DISCOVERED electricity yet. Bach didn't sell albums because electricity didn't exist.

The difference between Louis and Oscar is 40 years and both lived in the modern era. You're comparison is a 5x exhaggeration year wise and tech wise jeesh where does one begin? Lets get on your thinking cap and stay within the same universe please, hyperbole will get you an undesired result.

You're really bringing up Hagler an as ATG? You really have no idea what you're talking about as well as what you're looking at. A guy who said they kept the belt from him, but on further research showed the belt was constantly changing hands? Hagler is like the Winky Wright of the 80's, beating up on smaller guys making their way up.

Barely beat Duran, losing going into the 13th by a guy who started out as a Bantamweight? SRL out for over 2 years with a detached retina, and still tapped that áss decisively. The guy who quit when the going got tough?

Hagler never beat anybody good that was in his weight class and Hagler sat in one division that was super shítty at the time. Oscar is a 5 time champ in 5 divisions and beat ATG's without a weight advantage. Hagler was a B-Level fighter that beat 2 much smaller A-Level fighters.

Sure Hearns fought to Cruiser or whatever, but he was at his most skilled at WW. The guy lost to Iran Barkley at 160, Barkley was a bum.

[Tatabanya]

Thats how debating works though. I say something you don't agree with, you counter it, so on and so forth.

Joe Louis paved the way for black Boxers, Oscar paved the way for smaller Boxers. How does that compare to JS Bach vs U2? I actually know a lot about JS Bach and the Baroque era, as well as the Classical and Romantic era's. JS Bach one of my favorite composers.

JS died in 1750 and U2 started in 1976. Thats a shade under 200 years. Bachs era didn't even have electricity, and as a matter of fact the world hadn't even DISCOVERED electricity yet. Bach didn't sell albums because electricity didn't exist.

The difference between Louis and Oscar is 40 years and both lived in the modern era. You're comparison is a 5x exhaggeration year wise and tech wise jeesh where does one begin? Lets get on your thinking cap and stay within the same universe please, hyperbole will get you an undesired result.

You're really bringing up Hagler an as ATG? You really have no idea what you're talking about as well as what you're looking at. A guy who said they kept the belt from him, but on further research showed the belt was constantly changing hands? Hagler is like the Winky Wright of the 80's, beating up on smaller guys making their way up.

Barely beat Duran, losing going into the 13th by a guy who started out as a Bantamweight? SRL out for over 2 years with a detached retina, and still tapped that áss decisively. The guy who quit when the going got tough?

Hagler never beat anybody good that was in his weight class and Hagler sat in one division that was super shítty at the time. Oscar is a 5 time champ in 5 divisions and beat ATG's without a weight advantage. Hagler was a B-Level fighter that beat 2 much smaller A-Level fighters.

Sure Hearns fought to Cruiser or whatever, but he was at his most skilled at WW. The guy lost to Iran Barkley at 160, Barkley was a bum.

The Bach vs U2 was obviously a paradox, but it was useful to render the absurdity of that comparison you made. De La Hoya "paved the way" for welters only because he had the boxing establishment fabricating the Golden Boy image that made him rich. Joe Louis was a natural born icon, not to mention his historic relevance with all the Black vs **** shět linked to the Schmeling fights.

I am not even putting into the equation the difference in character and soul depth between the two. Louis was, as they famously wrote, "a credit for the human race". I think the same can't be told of De La Hoya, a fake guy with an insufferable forced grin.

In regard to Hagler being another Winky Wright, I won't even comment on that.

You say that Hagler was losing against a smaller man in Duran? Hell, Duran WAS an ATG, even if smaller than Hagler. Do I really have to remind you that De La Hoya's face was made to resemble that of The Elephant Man by someone who started his career as a FLYWEIGHT? Come on, Mc. People like Duran himself, Hearns and John Mugabi would have ****d Oscar (and, having seen what he's at lately, he would probably have been happy of that).

The Leonard fight was an aberration of sorts; either Hagler was suddenly a spent bullet after the Mugabi war, or he started too late to throw punches. Perhaps both. Many people (not me) still think he won. Whatever. That loss sticks out like a sore thumb because it was his last fight.

Anyhow, too bad this is an internet forum; our discussion would be more effective and direct if we could talk eye to eye. As I said earlier, I might not agree with many of the things you write, but your passion - and the appreciation of Bach - is good for me to hear.