Comments Thread For: Wilder Manager: We Bent Over Backwards To Make Joshua Fight!

[juggernaut666]

You’re making some fair comments, but it depends entirely on whose opposition you rate higher, it’s very subjective of course.

I weigh it up like this, do I think anyone that Wilder has fought would beat the last 7 of AJ’s opponents. And I’m taking into account here when Wilder fought Stiverne and when he fought Ortiz and AJ vs Wlad etc.

Whyte - Ortiz would probably beat him, we’ll soon find out, Stiverne, maybe, very close call. I don’t think anyone else Wilder has fought beats Whyte

Charles Martin - Pretty much all of Wilders last seven opponents beat Martin too, so yeah he’s tomato can.

Molina - Even they both beat Molina (scrubbed)

Breazeale - Ortiz beats him, Stiverne probably gets points win if in the shape of his first fight with Wilder, he’d lose if in the shape of 2nd fight. We know he beats Molina, he’d beat Scott or probably Arreola, so again just two people on Wilders record beat Brezeale.


Wlad - None of Wilders opposition would have beat Wlad the shape he was in to fight AJ. Ortiz would have dragged it to points, maybe.

Carlos Takam - Ortiz might have a slight chance in the early rounds but Takam has never looked close to hurt, so I think he grinds out a win over Ortiz, Stiverne would be gassed with Takam’s constant work rate and unable to hurt him, Takam easily outpoints Stiverne.

Parker - interesting one, do I think Hughie Fury is better than Stiverne...yes...so in that case Stiverne won’t beat Parker. Do I think Parker beats Ortiz, yes because he’s fitter, but it’d be close.

So...here’s where I land, in Wilders entire 41 fights he has just one fighter capable of living with 4/7 of AJs last opponents. AJs record is better.

WBC WBA IBF didnt make any fair comments bc his objective is to lie on here with a SPRINKLE of truth added to the lies . lol

Joshua only has 8 more amateur fights then Wilder and theres only a year difference in age when they started boxing .


Its very important to how a fighter gets to where he is bc it shows whats going on and the double standard on here has reached ******ed levels , im almost certain 70% on here dont actually follow boxing so they dont understand it . lol


Theres nothing to suggest anyone but Ortiz beats Martin that Wilder fought .

Molina was one of Wilders tougher fights yet Breazeale not only fought a more experienced Molina but he bullied him .

Wilder has never actually fought a heavy handed HW yet and Breazeale is going to introduce him to that and were going to see if Wilder doesnt hit the floor unless he gets Breazeale out of there before we see that .

Stiverne defeating Breazeale ?

Derrick Rossey should have won a UD against him and Mansour is a better fighter then Stiverne ,thats why Wilder stayed away from him .


Whyte is about equal ground to Ortiz at this point , we'll know more after the Parker fight i expect him to win .

Parker himself is by far much problematic barring Ortiz that Wilder fought .

You cant say Wilders opposition is remotely better based on Ortiz and thats what that character does .

We could just use Klitchko in that instance and laugh at Wilders entire resume in whole bc 19 fights in was defeated by Joshua.

Is this an actual subjective subject ?

Absolutely not just look at the resumes . lol

How is WBC WBA IBF being fair anything ?

His main point is and has been , Joshua has fought ZERO top guys and claims its CONCENSUS ?????

[Boxing Goat]

That's an extremely considered and well thought out point. The only way to respond to this is by asking... why didn't he sign the contract then? You know, being as he wanted it so much!
The terms were agreed by Wilder publicly and apparently the contract sent to Wilder's team mirrored the terms that they agreed to so again, why not sign?
The contract is still there to be signed with an added bonus fight, if Wilder wants it (but it is not contingent upon) so, if he wants to be the undisputed champion of the world that much, he'll sign right?

Would you sign a contract with no fight date or site on it? How about one that guarantees one champion a rematch and not yourself? This is a serious question. Please give a serious 'extremely considered and well thought out' answer please. If you're capable.

[eco1]

You hate futball or MexiCANS???

I hate the Mexico Football team. They hit too much, play dirty and use their hands......

Mexicans I have no problems with.

[N/A]

You’re making some fair comments, but it depends entirely on whose opposition you rate higher, it’s very subjective of course.

Yes, you're right that it's very subjective, which is why I leave my own opinion out of it. I am not saying who I had ranked where. I am saying who the world's leading experts had ranked where. I've taken my opinion completely out of it. Go through the most respected rankings and you'll see pretty much everybody had Stiverne #2 or #3. Pretty much everybody had Ortiz #3 or #4. That wasn't the case with Klitschko. That wasn't the case with Parker.

So in terms of beating guys at the very top, who everybody considers to be at the very top, Wilder actually has the most credible wins. Not in my opinion. In the opinion of the most respected opinions. The problem is people try to rewrite history after the fact. Hearn is an incredible promoter and does a great job of controlling the narrative. The UK has incredibly loyal fans who pledge fierce allegiance to their fighter, facts be damned. It's actually great to see. It's great for the sport.

But it's horrible for honest discussion.

I weigh it up like this, do I think anyone that Wilder has fought would beat the last 7 of AJ’s opponents. And I’m taking into account here when Wilder fought Stiverne and when he fought Ortiz and AJ vs Wlad etc.

We'll never know and my opinion doesn't matter anyway. I personally think Stiverne on his best day would have beaten Charles Martin on his best day, but I don't like to judge these situations on my opinion. The fact is that Stiverne was considered the #2 heavyweight in the world and Martin was considered the #9 heavyweight in the world. So my opinion is irrelevant.

Whyte - Ortiz would probably beat him, we’ll soon find out, Stiverne, maybe, very close call. I don’t think anyone else Wilder has fought beats Whyte

Hearn agrees that Ortiz likely beats Whyte, which is why the final eliminator was rejected. The Stiverne that won the title would be favored over the Whyte that AJ beat. But again, this approach shows the danger of trying to rewrite history. I give credit due for where guys were ranked when you beat them. If three years from now Whyte beats Ortiz, it doesn't change the fact that when Ortiz was undefeated and the most avoided heavyweight on the planet, Wilder demanded to make a VOLUNTARY defense against him. I've been closely following heavyweight boxing since 1988 and it's one of the ballsiest moves I've ever seen (or ******est, depending on your perspective).

Wlad - None of Wilders opposition would have beat Wlad the shape he was in to fight AJ. Ortiz would have dragged it to points, maybe.

This also shows the flaw of this type of analysis. AJ & Klitschko went life and death and were as close as any two fighters could be on that night. On that night, they were essentially as equal as two fighters could be in a fight that ended in a knockout.

Some will use that to say how great AJ was. But if AJ was equal to an old, rusty Klitschko, coming off an 18 month layoff, a horrible loss to Fury, and a Jennings defense where he looked like he was slowing down, we really don't know if that fight proves AJ's greatness or if AJ's skill level at that time was simply on the level of where Klitschko was at that point in his career.

So again, I have to assign credit on where guys were ranked heading into the fight. Klitschko hadn't fought in a year in a half. When he had last fought, he looked terrible and lost in embarrassing fashion. His last win was a decision over Jennings where it looked like his skills were eroding. Meanwhile, Ortiz absolutely destroyed Jennings.

I think the world's leading ranking systems were correct for either moving Klitschko down or removing him entirely due to inactivity. I think it was correct to have Ortiz as a top 4 heavyweight.

Which means Wilder still has the higher ranked wins than AJ does. Which is ultimately meaningless as AJ makes more money and that's all that matters. I only go this in depth to show how off base the trolls are when they say Wilder has only fought bums. Name another top heavyweight right now with two top 4 wins. You can't. Only Wilder. That deserves some respect.

[sportbuddha]

Yes, you're right that it's very subjective, which is why I leave my own opinion out of it.....

This is where your point goes all wrong for me, you should provide your opinion, assuming you know about the sport. Relying on the rankings is pointless, it’s a deeply flawed system and highly political, you realise people effectively buy ranking points, with money, right?

Let me give you two absurd, live examples from today’s rankings. Tony Bellew is ranked by two of the four sanctioners higher than Joe Parker...he’s basically just been slotted in where Haye would have appeared prior to getting his ass handed to him twice. Would Bellew beat Parker...based on your philosophy yes...in the real world not a hope.

On the other had Joe Joyce wouldn’t appear on any of the rankings, he hasn’t paid anyone enough money yet, but he’d beat about half of them, in fact he’d KO all of that half, not just be on their level. The rankings are badly flawed if you don’t apply your own knowledge of the sport.

I don’t need the rankings to win an argument on who is the better of the two boxers, but you’ve forced me to do it. So, I’m going to use your method and apply a dedicated rankings based approach to determine who is better. AJ has 3 world titles and Wilder has 1....end of debate, AJ is by your standard a 3x better boxer.

[N/A]

This is where your point goes all wrong for me, you should provide your opinion, assuming you know about the sport. Relying on the rankings is pointless, it’s a deeply flawed system and highly political, you realise people effectively buy ranking points, with money, right?

I'm not talking about sanctioning body rankings. I'm talking about independent rankings like Boxrec, ESPN, TBRB (and Ring before Golden Boy bought it).

I could sit here and say Jarrell Miller is the best heavyweight in the world IMO and you could say Dillian Whyte is the best heavyweight in the world. It's a fruitless argument. When judging who was willing to face the stiffest competition, I take my opinion out of it and point to independent rankings I have nothing to do with. It's not my opinion Stiverne was #2 when Wilder beat him for the title and Martin was #9. That was the consensus at the actual time, before UK fans ruined this site by rewriting history.

[sportbuddha]

I'm not talking about sanctioning body rankings. I'm talking about independent rankings like Boxrec, ESPN, TBRB (and Ring before Golden Boy bought it).

I could sit here and say Jarrell Miller is the best heavyweight in the world IMO and you could say Dillian Whyte is the best heavyweight in the world. It's a fruitless argument. When judging who was willing to face the stiffest competition, I take my opinion out of it and point to independent rankings I have nothing to do with. It's not my opinion Stiverne was #2 when Wilder beat him for the title and Martin was #9. That was the consensus at the actual time, before UK fans ruined this site by rewriting history.

Enjoy the Breazeale vs Wilder fight should be a good one.

[N/A]

Enjoy the Breazeale vs Wilder fight should be a good one.

Has nothing to do with what was being discussed. Are you here to troll or are you here to have productive intelligent discussions?

I won't enjoy any fight as I don't enjoy fights.

[SAINTSTEVE]

For all the talk about Canelo and Joshua being the A sides, it is Golovkin and Wilder that are must see TV and the so called a sides are really more marketable, handsome etc. It's just like talk in that ultimately it don't mean ****. It won't save you in there.

[sportbuddha]

Has nothing to do with what was being discussed. Are you here to troll or are you here to have productive intelligent discussions?

I won't enjoy any fight as I don't enjoy fights.

Well I do enjoy fights and I genuinely will enjoy Wilder vs Breazeale because I’m not 12 and can wait for other bouts to happen.

We can’t debate the Wilder rankings anymore, you believe in ‘experts’ I believe I am
one and have no interest in being told Wilder is quality.

He’s not, because I know what good boxing looks like. He’s got a punchers chance, it might not even be enough to beat Breazeale forget AJ.

But, if he beats Breazeale he does at least have another half decent name on his resume, that’ll be three, still less than AJ, but better than two.