Hurd is just a stronger Margarito.

[Eff Pandas]

he had just destroyed cotto, who beat mosley without a ton of fuss.


there's virtually no chance that it was his first time. why would you do that? "hey, this over the hill guy lost to the prime guy you just destroyed, let's load our gloves for the first time in front of one of the best trainers in the world and the athletic commission."


tyhis is why i always worry that a lot of you didn't watch boxing at the time, and why i don't take seriously a lot of the talk i hear in NSB about attitudes and opinions during a certain period.

mosley was looked at as being over the hill. look at what he did after margarito. look at what he had done before. the margarito victory was a mirage because margarito was a fabrication. the only remarkable thing about that fight, and it was remarkable because margarito had the best chin at WW i have ever seen on a contemporary fighter, was the knockout. and even then, the guy had just been busted red handed and could have been looking at the end of his career, you can't expect him to be there mentally for the fight. he looked completely out of it.

Mosley and Cotto aren't THAT similar in styles and we all know boxing math is bs.

Go listen to Doug Fischer, Steve Kim and/or Gabriel Montoya talk about it. They've talked to various cats including trainers who watched and inspected Margarito's hands in other fights and you either gotta believe they are all ****** or Margarito wasn't a serial cheater or technically a cheater at all since he didn't fight with those "loaded wraps".

I know this sh^t gets people all emotional and mad, but that's the reality like it or not.

But again when you do get into this sorta situation it opens you up for being a lifelong cheater as is a fair assumption to make, but that doesnt make it a fact either mind you.

[FLY TY]

Considering he was fighting one of the baddest mfers in the world yea that might have been the case actually.

As much as you or I or anyone else wants to make Margarito a serial cheater there is no hard evidence or even strong speculation based upon reality that says that's true or even likely.

That's all I'm saying.

He fought an undefeated 28 year old Miguel Cotto, and an undefeated 26 year old Paul Williams, before he stepped in the ring with a 38 year old, 5x beaten Shane Mosley. Mosley was like a 5-1 underdog, nobody thought he had a chance.

It defies logic that he'd wait for the Mosley fight to start cheating, but was clean fighting guys like Cotto and Williams.

[Eff Pandas]

He fought an undefeated 28 year old Miguel Cotto, and an undefeated 26 year old Paul Williams, before he stepped in the ring with a 38 year old, 5x beaten Shane Mosley. Mosley was like a 5-1 underdog, nobody thought he had a chance.

It defies logic that he'd wait for the Mosley fight to start cheating, but was clean fighting guys like Cotto and Williams.

So you think Freddie Roach & George Peterson are idiots is what I'm getting from this based on your implication?

[New England]

Mosley and Cotto aren't THAT similar in styles and we all know boxing math is bs.

Go listen to Doug Fischer, Steve Kim and/or Gabriel Montoya talk about it. They've talked to various cats including trainers who watched and inspected Margarito's hands in other fights and you either gotta believe they are all ****** or Margarito wasn't a serial cheater or technically a cheater at all since he didn't fight with those "loaded wraps".

I know this sh^t gets people all emotional and mad, but that's the reality like it or not.

But again when you do get into this sorta situation it opens you up for being a lifelong cheater as is a fair assumption to make, but that doesnt make it a fact either mind you.

i'm not talking about facts, never acted like i was and in fact i made it clear that i'm "virtually certain." what i'm talking about is likelyhood and risk. think of it like a poker game. utyou don't know, but based on what you do know you bet anyway. i'm all in one this one, the guy was a cheat. he had no power when he came back! the guy was a MONSTER PUNCHER against cotto, you just couldn't stop near him. he didn't even have to work hard to bust cotto up, his hands were freak heavy. t hen they rematch and the guy walks through the shots after getting his chin broken again against pacquiao?


less likely to need to cheat at all against a guy on the downside after you beat the dude in his prime coming off of a W off of him.

less likely to have cheated for the first time in that situation. again, why risk that for the first time against mosley? to be the first to stop him, i guess, but surely you'd be confident after you beat down a dude 10 years younger who handled him.


then you look at lujuan's ear. then you talk to rashad halloway, who had his face broken by a margarito uppercut in sparring. then you talk to cintron, who said the two fights felt like completely different punchers, then you look at the physical evidence.


and on gabe montoya, etc, i used to work with those guys. dave duenez, too. particularly at the time of the event those guys really weren't much more in tune to boxing than i was. only real advantage they'd have in his case is geography, they're in southern california. they certainly are now, i have a day job and zero time to write any more.

[BoxingTech718]

and margarito was very good as he beat guys like sergio and cotto although the fanbase of a certain fighter who ducked him wants to pretend he was a bum so the duck doesnt look as bad

Lol margarita was a bum. He wasn’t just a bum he was a cheating bum with plaster in his gloves.
He was the consummate poster boy for being a weight bully. Once he lost his plaster and couldn’t make 147 comfortably he was food on the plate.

[Eff Pandas]

i'm not talking about facts, never acted like i was and in fact i made it clear that i'm "virtually certain." what i'm talking about is likelyhood and risk. think of it like a poker game. utyou don't know, but based on what you do know you bet anyway. i'm all in one this one, the guy was a cheat. he had no power when he came back! the guy was a MONSTER PUNCHER against cotto, you just couldn't stop near him. he didn't even have to work hard to bust cotto up, his hands were freak heavy. t hen they rematch and the guy walks through the shots after getting his chin broken again against pacquiao?


less likely to need to cheat at all against a guy on the downside after you beat the dude in his prime coming off of a W off of him.

less likely to have cheated for the first time in that situation.


then you look at lujuan's ear. then you talk to rashad halloway, who had his face broken by a margarito uppercut in sparring. then you talk to cintron, who said the two fights felt like completely different punchers, then you look at the physical evidence.


and on gabe montoya, etc, i used to work with those guys. dave duenez, too. particularly at the time of the event those guys really weren't much more in tune to boxing than i was. only real advantage they'd have in his case is geography, they're in southern california. they are now, i have a day job and zero time to write any more.

Okay so like I said to the other guy you think Freddie Roach & George Peterson (among other high level trainers who went against Margarito) are ******s & can't tell a loaded wrap from an unloaded wrap?

[New England]

Okay so like I said to the other guy you think Freddie Roach & George Peterson (among other high level trainers who went against Margarito) are ******s & can't tell a loaded wrap from an unloaded wrap?

several of freddie's fighters would disagree with you. and with freddie.


so yes, i don't think they could at the time or that they did.


what do you think?
did margarito show the same power after the fight?

[sensfulviolence]

I can see what OP is saying. Hurd really is very sloppy, altho he looked better against Lara than he did against Trout.

I do think Charlo beats him, and I'd probably also favor Munguia if it came to it.

Still, Hurd is a fun fighter and Im glad he's around.

I dont like the "this fighter has this flaw, so he sucks" mentality. Hurd may not be a HOFer, but he'll entertain us for awhile, and make some money. Salute.

[Eff Pandas]

several of freddie's fighters would disagree with you. and with freddie.


so yes, i don't think they could at the time or that they did.


what do you think?
did margarito show the same power after the fight?

I was never all that impressed with his power. I thought he was an accumulation guy. And I saw him slow down as he got older like almost everyone else.

Sure he mighta been cheating the whole way, but it seems less likely based on all the trainers who've watched him be wrapped.

[New England]

I was never all that impressed with his power. I thought he was an accumulation guy. And I saw him slow down as he got older like almost everyone else.

Sure he mighta been cheating the whole way, but it seems less likely based on all the trainers who've watched him be wrapped.

well then you didn't know what you were looking at, adn that's fine. again, not goign to go crazy over something that's flying over your heads, i have a lot more time and experience in this sport than almost all of oyu.

watch this fight, and watch what happens when cotto stops. watch how effortlessly margairto punches, too. those are extremely heavy ahnds. FFS look at what happens to cotto's face!





then watch fight #2, keeping in mind that this is a cotto who has since gotten the tar beaten out of him by a near prime pacquiao, and how little effect that same pressure and those same shots have. i mean FFS he hardly blinks in fight 2 and this is after his chin was completely cracked! he was not the same after fight one mentally or physically, and margarito's shots hardly make him blink!