Comments Thread For: Dmitry Bivol vs. Isaac Chilemba is Finalized For Kovalev-Alvarez

[John Locke]

175 is the best division in boxing. 147 is the most overrated division in boxing, a bunch of guys who would be considered B-class in Floyd and Manny's era but are now being hyped up. Crawford is super talented but protected, and Spence is also super talented, but after that you have B-level guys like Danny Garcia and Porter, and Keith Thurman who was supposed to be A-level but has looked super unimpressive since he got married I guess and barely sc****d by Garcia which puts him at B-level too.

So basically 147 has two top guys, and nothing interesting after that. 175 has Kovalev (although getting old), Stevenson (well he used to be good, so maybe not him either), Beterbiev definitely A-level (although also getting old), Bivol A-level, Gvozdyk has been inconsistent and has some flaws but on the whole is a lot more skillful and powerful than the 2nd tier guys at 147 like Garcia and Power.

So I wouldn't overhype 147. They just make a big deal out of it because it's a historical weight class and they are always trying to make money off it and hype the next wave as something great. This time, it isn't, except for Spence and Crawford, potentially. They look like the goods so far.

You're talking a bunch of nonsense buddy.

Floyd and Manny are ATGs, are we really going to hold every fighter to that standard? Or just the ones that suit our agenda?

Thurman, Spence, Crawford, Porter, Garcia are all A to A- fighters, all former, current and future champions in their prime. The guy who comes out on top out of these guys would be considered A+. This era's welterweights are top notch, I've even left out some other quality fighters like Horn, Pacman, Matthysse, Khan etc

[PBR Streetgang]

I like and respect Chilemba but the only thing I see compelling about this fight is if he Bivol can beat him faster than the Nail. Bivol is coming off a dominant showing against a very game and dangerous Barerra. I can't but help to remember Chilemba getting swarmed by Gvozdyk and then claiming an injury (whether legit or not). Isaac starting to show his mileage a bit I think. Maybe Chilemba can make it ugly or frustrate Dmitry but I don't see him being able to keep Bivol off of him. I hope I'm wrong.

[Boxing Logic]

You're talking a bunch of nonsense buddy.

Floyd and Manny are ATGs, are we really going to hold every fighter to that standard? Or just the ones that suit our agenda?

Thurman, Spence, Crawford, Porter, Garcia are all A to A- fighters, all former, current and future champions in their prime. The guy who comes out on top out of these guys would be considered A+. This era's welterweights are top notch, I've even left out some other quality fighters like Horn, Pacman, Matthysse, Khan etc

You are overhypig guys. Who has Porter beat? Outboxed by Kell Brook, draw against past prime Julio Diaz, struggled vs shot Andre Berto and couldn't stop any of these guys. He's got a mauler style so why isn't he dropping these guys or getting them out of there? The much slower former 140 pounder Maidana did more damage vs Broner than Porter did.

Garcia was outboxed by Mauricio Herrera, struggled with past prime Zab Judah and Lamont Peterson. He is overrated as well. What's so great about him? His power hasn't carried to 147, and he doesn't have elite speed either. His feet are also slow, and he doesn't know what to do against boxers who jab him and show him angles.

So his speed isn't elite, his power isn't elite, and his boxing ability isn't elite, but you consider him elite? Okay then...

Thurman almost lost to Garcia, hasn't been the same for years. I agree he looked promising before he as Spence has said, he's "Sometimes" Thurman now not One Time. His power shows up sometimes. He has good not great speed.

Matthysse was small for 140. Now he's past prime. Did you see his last fight? Cant believe you brought him up as a top guy in 2018 at welterweight. And you brought up Jeff Horn? Jeff Horn is like the Andrej Fonfara of 147 except at least Fonfara had some KO power, which Horn does not. Isaac Chilemba and Eleider Alvarez would be handfuls for Horn if they were welterweights and I did not even bring them up among the top guys at 175.

So, it seems like we have different definitions for what a top guy is. When I say top guy, I mean guys who typically have both speed and KO power, or at least elite skills. I mean guys who whether they are on P4P lists or not, have P4P type of talent, elite talents. Stevenson had that potential once upon a time because he had elite power to go along with very good hand speed as well. Not one of the 147's you mentioned as being top guys along with Spence and Crawford have elite power. None of them have the type of hand speed at 147 that Stevenson had for 175 either, and Stevenson was not even primarily known for his hand speed.

I mean, which 147 discounting the big two that you mentioned can punch for their weight class as good as Stevenson? What about as good as Beterbiev? What about as good as Kovalev? Heck, what about Bivol even? I think Keith Thurman punches as well for his division as Bivol. That's the only guy. Not as good as Kovalev or Beterbiev or Stevenson, but as good as Bivol. Unfortunately, Thurman doesn't have the speed for his division that Bivol has, or the jab, or the rounded skills.

Which 147 you mentioned has the elite jab of Kovalev, Beterbiev, Bivol, and Gvozdyk? None. Which 147 you mentioned has the footwork of Kovalev, Bivol, and Gvozdyk? None really. Thurman is clever with his feet but not as fundamentally skilled as those guys. Which 147 has the elite reach and range of Gvozdyk? None. Floyd did but he retired.

So that's what Im saying, all those guys past Crawford and Spence are very limited. They have not turned out to be what they were sold as. The best one was Thurman but he lost interest in boxing or his power didn't carry to the top competition, or maybe it's a punch resistance thing because ever since Chaves, Soto Karass, and Collazo all hurt him, Thurman hasn't fought the same. But again I think if I had known boxing better back then I wouldn't have seen his limitations all the way back then just from the fact that Thurman was struggling with guys like Karass at 147, and past prime Collazo, and Chaves. I think the fact Thurman got KO's back then sort of made us forget that he was vulnerable against guys he should have dominated. And he's only looked less impressive since then. At least back then, vs that level of competition, Thurman's power was an equalizer, but now his power is not dropping guys either. Broner dropped Porter but Thurman couldn't.

So it is what it is. Spence and Crawford have P4P talent, but the rest of these guys at 147 are overhyped. They were sold to be what Spence and Crawford are, but they didn't turn out that way. Spence and Crawford have so far. DSG and Porter haven't, and Thurman looked like he might for a minute but he hasn't either, and he really underwhelmed me against DSG. Matthysse is past prime and Horn does nothing at the top level at all, nothing.

['b']

Chilemba will be a good test to see where Bivol's skills are at. We know he can pound bums, but can he hang with the defensive gatekeeper?

LHW has so many top fighters and they need to face each other. Bivol vs Kovalev next please, we gotta sort out the bums from the champs

[John Locke]

You are overhypig guys. Who has Porter beat? Outboxed by Kell Brook, draw against past prime Julio Diaz, struggled vs shot Andre Berto and couldn't stop any of these guys. He's got a mauler style so why isn't he dropping these guys or getting them out of there? The much slower former 140 pounder Maidana did more damage vs Broner than Porter did.

Garcia was outboxed by Mauricio Herrera, struggled with past prime Zab Judah and Lamont Peterson. He is overrated as well. What's so great about him? His power hasn't carried to 147, and he doesn't have elite speed either. His feet are also slow, and he doesn't know what to do against boxers who jab him and show him angles.

So his speed isn't elite, his power isn't elite, and his boxing ability isn't elite, but you consider him elite? Okay then...

Thurman almost lost to Garcia, hasn't been the same for years. I agree he looked promising before he as Spence has said, he's "Sometimes" Thurman now not One Time. His power shows up sometimes. He has good not great speed.

Matthysse was small for 140. Now he's past prime. Did you see his last fight? Cant believe you brought him up as a top guy in 2018 at welterweight. And you brought up Jeff Horn? Jeff Horn is like the Andrej Fonfara of 147 except at least Fonfara had some KO power, which Horn does not. Isaac Chilemba and Eleider Alvarez would be handfuls for Horn if they were welterweights and I did not even bring them up among the top guys at 175.

So, it seems like we have different definitions for what a top guy is. When I say top guy, I mean guys who typically have both speed and KO power, or at least elite skills. I mean guys who whether they are on P4P lists or not, have P4P type of talent, elite talents. Stevenson had that potential once upon a time because he had elite power to go along with very good hand speed as well. Not one of the 147's you mentioned as being top guys along with Spence and Crawford have elite power. None of them have the type of hand speed at 147 that Stevenson had for 175 either, and Stevenson was not even primarily known for his hand speed.

I mean, which 147 discounting the big two that you mentioned can punch for their weight class as good as Stevenson? What about as good as Beterbiev? What about as good as Kovalev? Heck, what about Bivol even? I think Keith Thurman punches as well for his division as Bivol. That's the only guy. Not as good as Kovalev or Beterbiev or Stevenson, but as good as Bivol. Unfortunately, Thurman doesn't have the speed for his division that Bivol has, or the jab, or the rounded skills.

Which 147 you mentioned has the elite jab of Kovalev, Beterbiev, Bivol, and Gvozdyk? None. Which 147 you mentioned has the footwork of Kovalev, Bivol, and Gvozdyk? None really. Thurman is clever with his feet but not as fundamentally skilled as those guys. Which 147 has the elite reach and range of Gvozdyk? None. Floyd did but he retired.

So that's what Im saying, all those guys past Crawford and Spence are very limited. They have not turned out to be what they were sold as. The best one was Thurman but he lost interest in boxing or his power didn't carry to the top competition, or maybe it's a punch resistance thing because ever since Chaves, Soto Karass, and Collazo all hurt him, Thurman hasn't fought the same. But again I think if I had known boxing better back then I wouldn't have seen his limitations all the way back then just from the fact that Thurman was struggling with guys like Karass at 147, and past prime Collazo, and Chaves. I think the fact Thurman got KO's back then sort of made us forget that he was vulnerable against guys he should have dominated. And he's only looked less impressive since then. At least back then, vs that level of competition, Thurman's power was an equalizer, but now his power is not dropping guys either. Broner dropped Porter but Thurman couldn't.

So it is what it is. Spence and Crawford have P4P talent, but the rest of these guys at 147 are overhyped. They were sold to be what Spence and Crawford are, but they didn't turn out that way. Spence and Crawford have so far. DSG and Porter haven't, and Thurman looked like he might for a minute but he hasn't either, and he really underwhelmed me against DSG. Matthysse is past prime and Horn does nothing at the top level at all, nothing.

Literally like 95% of the **** you said is made up, I can't even be bothered to respond to each point directly - and please save the old 'because you've got nothing to say!' response.

You imply you weren't a fully knowledgeable fan when Thurman was coming up (I would argue that's still the case) and was mislead into believing the hype.

Well you are doing the same thing again, you seem like the average casual fan to me. All I see you talking about is who punches hard and who doesn't. The sport is called boxing not knockouts.