Where did pac's "power" go?

[BO$$NELO]

The myth of Pacquiao and carrying power through the divisions.


Age/Weight Performance Summary


Weight

Age Range

Record

Kayos (%)


=<112lbs 16-17 12-1 4 (30%)
112lbs 17-20 14-1 13 (87%)
122lbs 21-24 11-0-1 11 (92%)
126lbs 24-25 2-0-1 2 (66%)
130lbs 26-29 7-1 4 (50%)
135lbs 29 1-0 1 (100%)
140lbs 30 1-0 1 (100%)
147lbs 30-36 9-2 2 (18%)

Pacquiao's mysterious ability to carry ridiculous power up through the weight classes is a really popular talking point by the (for what of a better term) pro-Pacquiao-PED gang, or the PPPs for short.

So let's break down his career into weights and ages, using Pacquiao's full record on Boxrec.

Early Career

Pro debut aged 16 and 1 month, he weighed 106lbs (light flyweight).

4th fight, aged 16, is at 110lbs (flyweight). His first loss is at flyweight, aged 17 as he is knocked out by the 23 year old Torrecampo in February 1996. After a decision victory in his next fight, Pacquiao is 11-1 with 4 kayos. That's a 30% knockout ratio.

112lbs + First World Title

He then goes on a knockout run culminating in winning his first world title, aged 18, the WBC flyweight title. Only 1 opponent makes it the distance in 14 fights. In his third defense of the title, Pacquiao misses weight and is knocked out with a body shot by rising Thai prospect Singsurat, who is 18-0 and 6 months older than Pacquiao whom attributes the loss to weight draining.

122lbs + Second World Title

Pacquiao then goes up 3 weight divisions for his next fight (yes, 3 - bypassing super flyweight and bantamweight) to successfully challenge for the super bantamweight title in December 1999, on his 21st birthday. He fights 12 times in total at 122lbs, winning all fights by kayo and drawing once in a fight prematurely sent to the scorecards after a cut opened by some awful fouls (how this wasn't a DQ is crazy). He last fights at 122lbs aged 24.

126lbs

His stint at featherweight is brief. He defeats Barrera before being robbed of the title by a judging error in his dramatic draw with Juan Manuel Marquez, as the judge who scores it a draw only awards Pacquiao 10-7 for the first round instead of 10-6. He knocks out one more opponent for a final 126lbs record of 2-0-1 (2 kayos) ages 24-25.

130lbs + 3rd World Title

He debuts at 130lbs aged 26, challenging Morales for his super featherweight titles, suffering defeat at the first time above 112lbs. He rebounds to stop Morales twice but is taken the distance in victories over Marquez, Barrera, and Oscar Larios for a final 130lb record of 7-1 with 4 kayos. His destructive power is already not quite as evident at this weight class albeit he is in with elite opponents on a regular basis.

The Rise That Scared Mayweather

He fought once at lightweight, thrashing Diaz en route to a 9th round stoppage. His next fight is at welterweight against Oscar De La Hoya, who, having had serious problems making weight, is stopped on his stool for an 8th round retirement just short of his 30th birthday.

The next 2 fights set up the Pacquiao "must be on PEDs" myth. At 140lbs, Pacquiao destroys Hatton who is unable to deal with Pacquiao's speed and accuracy. Hatton fought a horrible fight, without defense and wild offense.

147lbs + The Last KO

Pacquiao returns to 147lbs to fight Cotto at a catchweight of 145lbs. Cotto is game and brings the fight to Pacquiao, but pays the price as he is dropped twice before succumbing to a 12th round TKO. It is the last stoppage victory of Pacquiao's career (to date).

At welterweight, against competitive opposition there is only 1 stoppage (Cotto). He came close to getting other stoppages (Margarito, Marquez, Algieri) and has dropped several guys (Mosley, Algieri, Marquez). His welterweight record, to date, is 9-2 with 2 kayos.

Conclusion

I think we can put to bed the notion that Pacquiao's punching power carried unhindered through the weights - one of the core arguments of the PPPs as to why he must have taken PEDs. There is a clear progression of 'power' which peaks at 122lbs. As he climbs above that, his kayo % drops (with insufficient samples at 135/140 to show this) and his stoppages trend towards later in fights after accumulation.

This is good objective data.

However, what's your take on Pac refusing performance enhancing drug testing?

Afraid of needles
Giving blood weakens me
"I need a cutoff date" by far the most su****ious

I'll still never forget how people on these boards did - and continue - to forgive this man for saying such things. I'm not even bothered that he hates ****sexuals (could careless, his/my own opinion), but his behaviors/statements about ducking PED's warrants such su****ion...that was immediately dismissed by every cum-starved fanatic on this and other boards.

Pac will always be the guilty without evidence athlete for me. Same for Lance Armstrong until the evidence and admission trickled through

[Phenom]

The myth of Pacquiao and carrying power through the divisions.


Age/Weight Performance Summary


Weight

Age Range

Record

Kayos (%)


=<112lbs 16-17 12-1 4 (30%)
112lbs 17-20 14-1 13 (87%)
122lbs 21-24 11-0-1 11 (92%)
126lbs 24-25 2-0-1 2 (66%)
130lbs 26-29 7-1 4 (50%)
135lbs 29 1-0 1 (100%)
140lbs 30 1-0 1 (100%)
147lbs 30-36 9-2 2 (18%)

Pacquiao's mysterious ability to carry ridiculous power up through the weight classes is a really popular talking point by the (for what of a better term) pro-Pacquiao-PED gang, or the PPPs for short.

So let's break down his career into weights and ages, using Pacquiao's full record on Boxrec.

Early Career

Pro debut aged 16 and 1 month, he weighed 106lbs (light flyweight).

4th fight, aged 16, is at 110lbs (flyweight). His first loss is at flyweight, aged 17 as he is knocked out by the 23 year old Torrecampo in February 1996. After a decision victory in his next fight, Pacquiao is 11-1 with 4 kayos. That's a 30% knockout ratio.

112lbs + First World Title

He then goes on a knockout run culminating in winning his first world title, aged 18, the WBC flyweight title. Only 1 opponent makes it the distance in 14 fights. In his third defense of the title, Pacquiao misses weight and is knocked out with a body shot by rising Thai prospect Singsurat, who is 18-0 and 6 months older than Pacquiao whom attributes the loss to weight draining.

122lbs + Second World Title

Pacquiao then goes up 3 weight divisions for his next fight (yes, 3 - bypassing super flyweight and bantamweight) to successfully challenge for the super bantamweight title in December 1999, on his 21st birthday. He fights 12 times in total at 122lbs, winning all fights by kayo and drawing once in a fight prematurely sent to the scorecards after a cut opened by some awful fouls (how this wasn't a DQ is crazy). He last fights at 122lbs aged 24.

126lbs

His stint at featherweight is brief. He defeats Barrera before being robbed of the title by a judging error in his dramatic draw with Juan Manuel Marquez, as the judge who scores it a draw only awards Pacquiao 10-7 for the first round instead of 10-6. He knocks out one more opponent for a final 126lbs record of 2-0-1 (2 kayos) ages 24-25.

130lbs + 3rd World Title

He debuts at 130lbs aged 26, challenging Morales for his super featherweight titles, suffering defeat at the first time above 112lbs. He rebounds to stop Morales twice but is taken the distance in victories over Marquez, Barrera, and Oscar Larios for a final 130lb record of 7-1 with 4 kayos. His destructive power is already not quite as evident at this weight class albeit he is in with elite opponents on a regular basis.

The Rise That Scared Mayweather

He fought once at lightweight, thrashing Diaz en route to a 9th round stoppage. His next fight is at welterweight against Oscar De La Hoya, who, having had serious problems making weight, is stopped on his stool for an 8th round retirement just short of his 30th birthday.

The next 2 fights set up the Pacquiao "must be on PEDs" myth. At 140lbs, Pacquiao destroys Hatton who is unable to deal with Pacquiao's speed and accuracy. Hatton fought a horrible fight, without defense and wild offense.

147lbs + The Last KO

Pacquiao returns to 147lbs to fight Cotto at a catchweight of 145lbs. Cotto is game and brings the fight to Pacquiao, but pays the price as he is dropped twice before succumbing to a 12th round TKO. It is the last stoppage victory of Pacquiao's career (to date).

At welterweight, against competitive opposition there is only 1 stoppage (Cotto). He came close to getting other stoppages (Margarito, Marquez, Algieri) and has dropped several guys (Mosley, Algieri, Marquez). His welterweight record, to date, is 9-2 with 2 kayos.

Conclusion

I think we can put to bed the notion that Pacquiao's punching power carried unhindered through the weights - one of the core arguments of the PPPs as to why he must have taken PEDs. There is a clear progression of 'power' which peaks at 122lbs. As he climbs above that, his kayo % drops (with insufficient samples at 135/140 to show this) and his stoppages trend towards later in fights after accumulation.

Worth noting is after the Cotto fight is when he was offered the Mayweather fight for March 11 50/50 split with urine and blood testing in the contract

Also it was 2008-2011 when he started moving up in weight and he became a star

[Phenom]

Pacquiao was definitely juicing it's very obvious maybe Ariza will one day write a book

[richardt]

This is good objective data.

However, what's your take on Pac refusing performance enhancing drug testing?

Afraid of needles
Giving blood weakens me
"I need a cutoff date" by far the most su****ious

I'll still never forget how people on these boards did - and continue - to forgive this man for saying such things. I'm not even bothered that he hates ****sexuals (could careless, his/my own opinion), but his behaviors/statements about ducking PED's warrants such su****ion...that was immediately dismissed by every cum-starved fanatic on this and other boards.

Pac will always be the guilty without evidence athlete for me. Same for Lance Armstrong until the evidence and admission trickled through

My take is along the lines of psychology. When someone is accused of something such as when Mayweather accused Pac, human nature is that a person will do one of two things, they will either strive to justify themselves - or feel that they are too dignified and resist a demand. Pac chose the latter. And when someone takes a stance like he did, they become even more determined to not respond and will come up with excuses such as the needles part and blood draw. People can make decisions based on childish instincts of resistance and Pac did that. But even more dumb is when someone uses his tattoos as an example that his is not afraid of needles when in fact there is a huge difference, not to mention it was never the needles, it was the blood draw or how close to the fight. Only he will ever know if he was clean or not. But the rise in weight part was a myth that the Mayweather's perpetrated.

[ELPacman]

It never went anywhere. Just nobody legit analyzes anything and agrees with the masses.

Pac was never 147lbs fighter. Did he ever TRULY KO someone at 147lbs? No. In fact his last legit KO was Ricky Hatton off of pure power. That was because he was at his more natural weight where he got KOs (and in his prime). Even at his featherweight fights he would weight in nearly 140lbs or more. At 147lbs he was trying hard just to keep the weight on and then he's fighting guys weighing in nearly 155-160lbs. Of course they can take his punch better.

The Fraud Jr. accusation was pure smoke screen and decoy to keep eyes on Pac and not make the fight happen during his prime years. A great offense usually loses to a great defense when your out of your prime. Everything you rely on that made you great doesn't work well out of prime, (power, speed, reflexes, stamina).

I never thought Pac was on anything but a victim of circumstances and a frightened fan base that agreed with whatever Jr. said. Pac had a stoppage win at 147lbs of over the hill Oscar and a stoppage that didn't really have to happen with Cotto (he had like a minute and half left in final rd). Other than that what? Some flash KDs but nothing stopping fights at that weight like they did 140lbs and below. I don't see anything wrong with it.

[madsweeney]

Pac wasn't a one punch KO guy ever. Even in the lower weights he got KO's more from accumulation.

Now as he got into WW, KO's dropped probably because he was fighting naturally bigger guys, and after the Mosley, people saw how to survive against Pac. Pretty obvious if you don't have an agenda.

[hayZ]

If you guys think Pac AND Floyd didn't take steroids, you are EXTREMELY naive. It's a part of the game at the highest level. Pac still had solid power but lost some of that speed, that extra zip in his punch. He had been facing bigger opponents too. Margarito, Clottey, Cotto, Mosley all bigger than him yet he damaged them. Marquez a terrible style for him, yet he dropped and bust his face up a bit too. Rios got stunned a few times but has a solid chin and Pac looked gunshy post Marquez KO.

He used to throw with reckless abandonment but it seems with age AND post Marquez KO he isn't as fast or reckless. He caught Floyd in their fight and Floyd felt it you can tell by his reaction but Floyd hardly got caught in the fight, clean anyway...he also has an iron chin.

[D4thincarnation]

after mayweather brought up drug testing and said pac was dirty, anyone notice how pacs power was totally gone?

Sugar Shane Mosley disagrees with you.

“That PAC man hit me harder than anybody in my entire boxing career. Never went down so easy,”

“After round 3, I went back to my corner and looked up and seen the girl walking holding up round 6 crazy!!!!,”

[ruedboy]

Pac wasn't a one punch KO guy ever. Even in the lower weights he got KO's more from accumulation.

Now as he got into WW, KO's dropped probably because he was fighting naturally bigger guys, and after the Mosley, people saw how to survive against Pac. Pretty obvious if you don't have an agenda.

True. The Mosely fight was a text book case of a boxer fighting to not get KO'd rather than to win the fight. Shane started the fight looking confident and aggressive but after getting knocked down early in the fight went into full defensive mode.

[Phenom]

True. The Mosely fight was a text book case of a boxer fighting to not get KO'd rather than to win the fight. Shane started the fight looking confident and aggressive but after getting knocked down early in the fight went into full defensive mode.

That was more of slip losing his Balance than anything



Mosley was old obviously his work rate would fade late but Pacquiao still didn't even come close to stopping him