Floyd Mayweather is in my top 3 of all time let the hate begin!

[Johnwoo8686]

Johnwoo8686,



Sort yourself out.

How many more times do you need telling that:

Statistics don't allow for circumstances.

?

I don't care that statistics are factual pieces of information. Because to a knowledgeable person, they mean NOTHING WITHOUT CONTEXT.

It's a FACT that Danny Williams knocked out Mike Tyson.

It's a FACT that Trevor Berbick beat Muhammad Ali.

Ray HAS got better wins on his resume than Floyd. Because he beat BETTER fighters whilst they were in their PRIME.

If you can't appreciate that, then you have a lot to learn.



Ha!

What a joke.

More numbers.

Oh dear.



True. But again, Ray was also part his prime, he'd never fought at MW, and he'd been inactive for over 3 years.

Who says statistics don't allow for circumstances? What kind of nonsense is that? Floyd was never defeated in his prime while Ray was. Ray had fewer fights yet accrued more losses and two of those losses came to guys who had already been whooped multiple times in their careers before even facing Ray.

You say Ray was past his prime when fighting Hagler even though he's two years younger than Hagler but fail to mention that Floyd was also older than Pacquiao, Cotto, and Canelo when he faced them and all of those guys won world titles again after losing to an OLD Floyd.

Remember we are talking pound for pound greatness here. Floyd beat an undefeated Diego Corrales at 23 who had more fights, was naturally bigger an in the top 5 pound for pound fighters in the world. Leonard at 24 got whopped by an older smaller guy in Duran.

[Johnwoo8686]

Stop with this utter nonsense.

Duran couldn't even win titles in 5?

Do you know how dumb you look with that statement?

And why do you keep quoting BoxRec? How can they be taken seriously and respected if they have Floyd as the greatest WW of all time?

Floyd's peak was at the lower weights. He possesses no great wins at WW, and you couldn't even put him there on a H2H basis. He was a safety first fighter with hand issues.

Duran moved up in weight a lot and DID NOT become champion in 5 weight classes. Again another fact. You may not like facts but you can't ignore them because they don't suit your agenda.

[SweetPbfAli]

SRL resume still blows my mind when I look at it. The level of opposition in the limited amount of fights he had is astounding.

[robertzimmerman]

Johnwoo8686,

Who says statistics don't allow for circumstances? What kind of nonsense is that? Floyd was never defeated in his prime while Ray was. Ray had fewer fights yet accrued more losses and two of those losses came to guys who had already been whooped multiple times in their careers before even facing Ray.

Nonsense is what you're spewing with every post.

You are absolutely obsessed with numbers.

Marciano was never defeated.

Ali had 5 losses.

Do you understand the point?

Do you need a pen and some paper?

Work it out and then apply it to your statistical based drivel.

You say Ray was past his prime when fighting Hagler even though he's two years younger than Hagler but fail to mention that Floyd was also older than Pacquiao, Cotto, and Canelo when he faced them and all of those guys won world titles again after losing to an OLD Floyd.

I've already acknowledged Floyd's great longevity. But age and ring age are 2 very different things. Also, every fighter has different circumstances.

Remember we are talking pound for pound greatness here. Floyd beat an undefeated Diego Corrales at 23 who had more fights, was naturally bigger an in the top 5 pound for pound fighters in the world. Leonard at 24 got whopped by an older smaller guy in Duran.

I'm astounded by your ignorance.

1. Corrales wasn't Duran.

2. Ray did not get whipped by Duran. And that's another fight which you've obviously never seen.

[robertzimmerman]

Duran moved up in weight a lot and DID NOT become champion in 5 weight classes. Again another fact. You may not like facts but you can't ignore them because they don't suit your agenda.

You have to be one of the most ignorant boxing fans I've ever come across.

You really do take the pi$$ with your silly uneducated comments.

You have no understanding of anything.

Once again: Every fighter has different circumstances surrounding them.

Manny was a GREAT fighter. But he had the opportunity to move through more weight classes.

Why don't you think before you type?

For Duran to have equaled Manny's feat in a statistical sense, he'd had to have won a world title at LHW.

Think about that for a second.

The lower weight classes are closer together in terms of weight.

No, Duran didn't win world titles in 5 divisions. Do you know why? Because he ran into peak versions of Hearns and Hagler. Hearns is regarded as one of the greatest JMW's of all time. And Hagler is regarded as one of the greatest MW's of all time.

Now who did Manny fight of that calibre on his way to winning all of those titles??

Would he have won all those titles if he had have fought guys of that calibre?

This is not a numbers game.

You come across as an uneducated casual.

If fighter A has won titles in 5 weight classes, and fighter B has won titles in 4 weight classes, it does not automatically mean that fighter A ranks higher with a better resume. You would first need to objectively analyse a number of factors.

[Johnwoo8686]

Johnwoo8686,



Nonsense is what you're spewing with every post.

You are absolutely obsessed with numbers.

Marciano was never defeated.

Ali had 5 losses.

Do you understand the point?

Do you need a pen and some paper?

Work it out and then apply it to your statistical based drivel.



I've already acknowledged Floyd's great longevity. But age and ring age are 2 very different things. Also, every fighter has different circumstances.



I'm astounded by your ignorance.

1. Corrales wasn't Duran.

2. Ray did not get whipped by Duran. And that's another fight which you've obviously never seen.

Clearly you're illiterate. I already explained why Ali is greater than Marciano but you keep bringing up Marciano and comparing him to Floyd. Marciano only had 6 title fight wins while Ali had 22. THAT is why Ali is considered greater than Marciano.

Floyd won more championship fights than Leonard did AND retired undefeated. That is why I place him above Leonard. How hard is that to understand? Floyd also fought many of those champions WHILE they were still champions.

You want to ignore numbers and stats but numbers and stats are how theories and hypotheses are created. Unless we create a time machine and make Leonard and Mayweather the same size and have them fight each other at each's absolute prime we will never know who was truly the better fighter so we compare statistics and records to come to a conclusion.

[Johnwoo8686]

You have to be one of the most ignorant boxing fans I've ever come across.

You really do take the pi$$ with your silly uneducated comments.

You have no understanding of anything.

Once again: Every fighter has different circumstances surrounding them.

Manny was a GREAT fighter. But he had the opportunity to move through more weight classes.

Why don't you think before you type?

For Duran to have equaled Manny's feat in a statistical sense, he'd had to have won a world title at LHW.

Think about that for a second.

The lower weight classes are closer together in terms of weight.

No, Duran didn't win world titles in 5 divisions. Do you know why? Because he ran into peak versions of Hearns and Hagler. Hearns is regarded as one of the greatest JMW's of all time. And Hagler is regarded as one of the greatest MW's of all time.

Now who did Manny fight of that calibre on his way to winning all of those titles??

Would he have won all those titles if he had have fought guys of that calibre?

This is not a numbers game.

You come across as an uneducated casual.

If fighter A has won titles in 5 weight classes, and fighter B has won titles in 4 weight classes, it does not automatically mean that fighter A ranks higher with a better resume. You would first need to objectively analyse a number of factors.

I didn't say Duran had to win titles in 8 weight classes like Manny im saying he couldn't win titles in just 5 weight classes. That would be like asking Duran to win his last title at 160 which wouldn't have been easy but it was certainly possible and he couldn't do it despite blowing up to as high as 168 pounds. You don't get extra points for trying and losing. Hagler and Hearns were bad asses but they weren't unbeatable as their records show.

[robertzimmerman]

Johnwoo8686,

Clearly you're illiterate. I already explained why Ali is greater than Marciano but you keep bringing up Marciano and comparing him to Floyd. Marciano only had 6 title fight wins while Ali had 22. THAT is why Ali is considered greater than Marciano.

Right, so what if Marciano had fought 25 title fights?

Would you rank him above Ali?

Because the first thing that any knowledgeable fan would do, is to analyse who they fought and at what point.

Do you rate Wlad K above Ali?

Floyd won more championship fights than Leonard did AND retired undefeated. That is why I place him above Leonard. How hard is that to understand? Floyd also fought many of those champions WHILE they were still champions.

So what?

You place him above Leonard because you know nothing about Leonard.

I know that from the nonsense you've written.

You want to ignore numbers and stats but numbers and stats are how theories and hypotheses are created. Unless we create a time machine and make Leonard and Mayweather the same size and have them fight each other at each's absolute prime we will never know who was truly the better fighter so we compare statistics and records to come to a conclusion.

But you can't just compare numbers and stats.

Don't be ******.

[Johnwoo8686]

Johnwoo8686,



Right, so what if Marciano had fought 25 title fights?

Would you rank him above Ali?

Because the first thing that any knowledgeable fan would do, is to analyse who they fought and at what point.

Do you rate Wlad K above Ali?



So what?

You place him above Leonard because you know nothing about Leonard.

I know that from the nonsense you've written.



But you can't just compare numbers and stats.

Don't be ******.

I dont rate Wlad above Ali but I think Wlad is close. Ali was never soundly beaten in his prime and the guys he beat achieved greatness themselves. That is why Ali is also greater than Joe Louis who had a better record in title fights and overall fights but still Joe Louis is ranked right behind Ali in most ATG lists.

I know plenty about Leonard. I know his first pro fight was against a nobody and it still went to a decision. I know his team handpicked Camacho thinking it would be an easy comeback fight because Camacho was 35, small, and didn't have much punching power and he still beat Leonard's ass. I know Hearns beat him in their rematch and was robbed of a decision and only given a draw. I know Hagler claims Leonard ducked him in 1982 when they first discussed facing each other. Leonard only came back when Hagler looked beatable after he barely beat John Mugabe and Leonard barely beat Hagler. I know Donald Curry, Mike McCallum, Julian Jackson all wanted a piece of Leonard and he didn't fight them. What else is there?

[robertzimmerman]

I didn't say Duran had to win titles in 8 weight classes like Manny im saying he couldn't win titles in just 5 weight classes. That would be like asking Duran to win his last title at 160 which wouldn't have been easy but it was certainly possible and he couldn't do it despite blowing up to as high as 168 pounds. You don't get extra points for trying and losing. Hagler and Hearns were bad asses but they weren't unbeatable as their records show.

No, you very ignorantly claimed: "Duran couldn't even win titles in 5 weight classes" obviously implying that he's far inferior to Manny because of it.

Let me give you a dose of reality:

As great as Manny was, he wouldn't have won as many titles as he did, had he have faced the same calibre of opposition that Duran did.

Look at how you've used the word: 'just'

You are absolutely clueless.

Duran did win a world title at MW.

I'm now asking myself why I'm even debating with you, when you clearly have zero knowledge of the fighters that we're discussing.