Floyd Mayweather is in my top 3 of all time let the hate begin!

[mcdonalds]

Manny originally wanted a cut off after what had happened against Morales in 2005, when he had to have his blood retaken just prior to the fight, as the lab had somehow mislaid it. He said it weakened him, and even Morales agreed.

Floyd never had any intention of cleaning up the sport of boxing and his only concern for a potential fight against Manny, was how much he was going to get paid. It was only after his Father accused Manny of being a cheat (without a shred of evidence) that Floyd began to hurl insults and accusations around.

Floyd then demanded the tests. Manny agreed, but wanted a window. He did however say that he'd be willing to give urine up to the day of the fight and an imnediate after fight blood test. They then went back and forth regarding the number of days in the window..

This is what happened:

Mayweather wanted random drug testing. Pacquiao claimed he was scared of needles yet HE HAS TATTOOS and a video came out of him giving blood like 20 days before a previous fight.

Since mayweather wanted random drug testing anythime before the fight he proposed 14 day cutoff yet MANNY AND BOB ARUM BACKED OUT OF THE FIGHT for march 2010.

So when it comes to ducking: Manny-1 Floyd-0

Manny then made a public statement saying that he would agree to all of Floyd's demands.

The whole thing was a circus.

He said that in 2010/2011 and it was a lie.

They said they agreed to any random drug testing demand yet was on video claiming they still wanted a cutoff and had issues with USADA drug testing because it wasn't by the commission. There is video evidence of this with conflicting interviews and statements. I can post them if you want me too.

SO THEY LIED

Floyd then claimed he wanted all of the PPV revenue.

Nope, this supposedly happened in 2012 with "reports from the Phillipines"Yet manny, freddie roach, bob arum have been the ones who consistently lied throughout the whole negotiations. Floyd himself said the $40 million offer was only the purse amount and they would discuss ppv percentages after he accepts to fight. He has given ppv percentages to basically every fighter he's faced. Bob arum refused to further negotiate and claimed manny should be the A side anyway LOL

When floyd was supposed to go to jail in early 2012 bob arum and Pedquiao said they wanted to fight someone on May 5th. Bob arum released a lit of opponents for pacquiao to fight, mayweather wasn't on the list. When floyd got his sentenced pushed back he proposed a fight on may 5th to pacquiao and BOB ARUM DECLINED.

He made excuses like pacquiao can't fight on may 5th because they need time to build a stadium and he has to heal from a cut. Knowing damn well floyd had to go jail after may 5th. How come pacquiao was ok with fighting on may 5th before but then he wasn't????

When it comes to ducking: Manny- 2 Floyd-0

That is what happened, i specifically want you to try and defend the bolded though. That has to be one of the most blatant ducks of all time

[chrisJS]

Just stop.

You obviously don't want to debate.

Wins over Zab and Canelo were great wins, but Leonard knocking out Hearns was only a GOOD win?

GTFO you nut.

Judah coming off of loss being a better fighter than prime Hearns and Benitez is beyond crazy. Even Judah unbeaten the one Tszyu beat is nowhere near as good as Benitez or Hearns.

Duran isn't a great win because he moved up two weight classes but Marquez is a great win? Never mind that Duran is way better than Marquez (who happens to be my favorite fighter) but Duran had been fighting at Welterweight ALREADY and dominated a hall of fame Welterweight. Marquez had barely just moved up two weight classes then jumped two more with no tune-ups.

[Johnwoo8686]

The greatest WW of all time?

Ha!

A safety first fighter with hand issues pot shotting over matched opponents?

Floyd's peak was at the lower weights.

They've lost all credibility with that claim.

Floyd never lost at welterweight while winning every major title at that weight class. That's something Ray Leonard, Manny Pacquiao, Oscar De La Hoya, Thomas Hearns, and Roberto Duran could not do.

[Johnwoo8686]

Come on now.

Duran was an ATG. He had success above WW, and even came close to beating Marvin when he was at his peak at MW. You need to apply context here. And it wouldn't be akin to Floyd having lost to a SBW champ.

Floyd never came close to losing to a guy smaller than himself? But look at how big Floyd was with his huge reach. Look at the guys he fought. It's a ridiculous line of thought. Camacho? Ray was shot at that point.

If you're looking at H2H, that's a different argument. But if you're looking at resume, Ray clearly ranks higher. It's quality over quantity.

Ray beat a peak version of Benitez.

He had a shoot out against Hearns and knocked him out.

He psyched out Duran.

He moved up to MW and beat Marvin after a 3 year lay off.

Floyd's best win was over a faded and inactive Oscar who pushed him close.

Duran also got his ass beat above Welterweight. You say Floyd was huge at super featherweight but you could argue Leonard was huge at welterweight being 5'10 with a 74 inch reach. Yet Leonard got beat by a 5'7 former lightweight in Duran who suffered loss before and after the two of them faced each other.

It's funny how people discredit Floyd for beating Canelo by saying he was too young at 23 yet you want to give Leonard credit for beating a 21 year old Benitez.

You say Oscar was over the hill when Floyd fought him yet Oscar was the same age Hagler was when Hagler fought Leonard at 33/34. Oscar was a former gold medalist and a ten time champion in 6 weight classes while Hagler was a dominant champion in only one weight division. Pound for pound you can place Oscar above Hagler.

[robertzimmerman]

mcdonalds,

This is what happened:

Mayweather wanted random drug testing. Pacquiao claimed he was scared of needles yet HE HAS TATTOOS and a video came out of him giving blood like 20 days before the fight.

Since mayweather wanted random drug testing anythime before the fight he proposed 14 day cutoff yet MANNY AND BOB ARUM BACKED OUT OF THE FIGHT for march 2010.

So when it comes to ducking: Manny-1 Floyd-0

Absolute nonsense.

Manny's explanation for wanting a cut off was perfectly legit. As far as I'm aware, the old links from 2005 are still online covering the Morales incident.

Tattoos? What the hell does having tattoos in his personal life and own leisure, have to do with having blood drawn before the biggest fight of his career, especially as he'd had a bad experience years earlier??

I've got friends who are body builders with sleeves inked on their arms and portraits of their kids, yet don't like blood been taken at their local GP's.

What a weak argument.

You're a real nut hugger.

You only want to see things from one perspective.

Yes, Manny backed out, because Floyd wouldn't agree to his terms. So what? I can say that if Floyd had agreed to his terms, we could have seen an earlier fight. Just because Manny didn't jump through all of Floyd's hoops, that doesn't constitute as a duck.

Why wasn't the cut off granted, considering there was no evidence of any wrongdoing, nobody else had an issue with fighting Manny, and Manny agreed to have an immediate after fight blood test?

That should have been sufficient.

Give me a logical reason as to why that wasn't accepted?

Manny didn't have to agree to ANYTHING.

It wasn't a commission who made the demands, it was Floyd based off of the accusations from his big mouth daddy.

Manny met him half way, so Floyd could have given him his cut off days.

Manny had a 10 week camp. So he was willing to be randomly tested for 7 of the 10 weeks, with an immediate after fight blood test. Where was the issue? Was he going to cheat for less than 3 weeks out of a 10 week camp? Seriously?

And then we find out that Floyd supposedly needed an emergency IV due to severe dehydration, despite the fact that his walk around weight is only about 5 or 6 pounds above his fighting weight. Ha! He was only 3.5 pounds out at the 30 day mark, the work had been done, but he needed an emergency IV? Yet you're upset that Manny didn't agree to all of Floyd's demands after he'd been publicly slandered?

What a joke.

He said that in 2010/2011 and it was a lie.

They said they agreed to any random drug testing demand yet was on video claiming they still wanted a cutoff and had issues with taking blood 7 days before the fight. There is video evidence of this with conflicting interviews and statements. I can post them if you want me too.

SO THEY LIED

There were conflicting reports in 2010 and 2011, but in 2012, Manny publicly agreed to everything.

The fight then took place 3 years later.

We don't need to hire Columbo to figure out what happened.

Nope, this supposedly happened in 2012 with "reports from the Phillipines"Yet manny, freddie roach, bob arum have been the ones who consistently lied throughout the whole negotiations. Floyd himself said the $40 million offer was only the purse amount and they would discuss ppv percentages after he accepts to fight. He has given ppv percentages to basically every fighter he's faced. Bob arum refused to further negotiate and claimed manny should be the A side anyway LOL

Have you any idea of how a huge fight is made?

The fighters don't make the fights.

The fights are made when the promoters and the TV execs sit down to discuss all of the specifics at length, covering every minute detail.

Do you really believe that fighter A says to fighter B: "Sign and agree to this and then we'll discuss the rest afterwards..."?

We're talking about a mega money fight, with millions of dollars at stake, with international rights and sponsors etc.

Floyd did initially want all of the PPV revenue, saying that the flat fee was more than fair, considering Manny had never earnt anywhere near that amount before. I heard him say that.

When floyd was supposed to go to jail in early 2012 bob arum and Pedquiao said they wanted to fight someone on May 5th. Bob arum released a lit of opponents for pacquiao to fight, mayweather wasn't on the list. When floyd got his sentenced pushed back he proposed a fight on may 5th to pacquiao and BOB ARUM DECLINED.

Arum had washed his hands of Ellerbe and Floyd at that point, because he considered them nothing more than time wasters. He made the Bradley fight and Floyd fought Cotto.

I've just had to ask myself why I'm even debating you when you've referred to Manny as "Pedquiao"

You don't want a debate.

He made excuses like pacquiao can't fight on may 5th because they need time to build a stadium and he has to heal from a cut. Knowing damn well floyd had to go jail after may 5th. How come pacquiao was ok with fighting on may 5th before but then he wasn't????

When it comes to ducking: Manny- 2 Floyd-0

That is what happened, i specifcily want you to try and defend the bolded though. That has to be one of themost blatant ducks of all time

Defend what?

A blatant duck?

Based on what?

[robertzimmerman]

Judah coming off of loss being a better fighter than prime Hearns and Benitez is beyond crazy. Even Judah unbeaten the one Tszyu beat is nowhere near as good as Benitez or Hearns.

Duran isn't a great win because he moved up two weight classes but Marquez is a great win? Never mind that Duran is way better than Marquez (who happens to be my favorite fighter) but Duran had been fighting at Welterweight ALREADY and dominated a hall of fame Welterweight. Marquez had barely just moved up two weight classes then jumped two more with no tune-ups.

Yeah, exactly.

That clown isn't even worth debating with.

[robertzimmerman]

Floyd never lost at welterweight while winning every major title at that weight class. That's something Ray Leonard, Manny Pacquiao, Oscar De La Hoya, Thomas Hearns, and Roberto Duran could not do.

And??

Again, apply context.

Ray Leonard lost to Duran.

What win does Floyd have at the weight that matches up?

Hearns lost to Ray. Yet he beat Benitez. What win does Floyd have that matches up?

Those guys lost now and again, because they were all ATG's who fought other ATG's in their primes.

The 'Fab Four" all beat each other.

That's what happens when you match truly outstanding fighters up with each other.

Who did Floyd beat at WW?

Do you seriously think he'd have been unbeaten at WW if he'd have fought Ray, Duran, Hearns and Benitez?

Floyd was great. But he fought lesser guys.

Ray going 3-1 against Duran, Benitez and Hearns, eclipses Floyd's however many wins at the weight.

It's quality not quantity.

Floyd can't be considered the greatest WW of all time.

[chrisJS]

Duran also got his ass beat above Welterweight. You say Floyd was huge at super featherweight but you could argue Leonard was huge at welterweight being 5'10 with a 74 inch reach. Yet Leonard got beat by a 5'7 former lightweight in Duran who suffered loss before and after the two of them faced each other.

It's funny how people discredit Floyd for beating Canelo by saying he was too young at 23 yet you want to give Leonard credit for beating a 21 year old Benitez.

You say Oscar was over the hill when Floyd fought him yet Oscar was the same age Hagler was when Hagler fought Leonard at 33/34. Oscar was a former gold medalist and a ten time champion in 6 weight classes while Hagler was a dominant champion in only one weight division. Pound for pound you can place Oscar above Hagler.

Benitez was already an established hall of fame fighter by the time he fought Leonard. He defeated the great Antonio Cervantes at 140 for a major title and then the hall of fame Carlos Palomino at 147. Different era too fighters peaked younger. These days we don't see that. Canelo still has yet to meet Benitez' accomplishments pre-Leonard much less his overall career and he never will. He's just not that caliber of fighter. Canelo was a young fighter (by today's standards) coming off a controversial decision over Austin Trout. Trout would be shut out by Benitez.

You can't place Oscar above Hagler that's just incredibly wrong. This multi weight sensation is a relatively new phenomenon but cleaning out an entire division should be respected more by newer fans. I'll take undisputed or majority unified over a single belt in multiple divisions especially if the wins are better. Besides watch them fight. Hagler is so much better than De La Hoya.

Mayweather is great nobody questions it but it's tedious how this site at least his fans try to big up every win and talk down any other boxers wins by just looking at boxrec. I've seen in this thread and others that Judah, Corrales, Hatton are better than Hearns, Benitez and Hagler which are some of the dumbest things I've ever seen on any subject ever. I saw earlier that Chageav, Povetkin were better than Frazier, Liston and Sam Peter was as good as Foreman and the KLits were better than Ali. This forum is nuts.

[A-Wolf]

Top 3 lol.

[mcdonalds]

mcdonalds,

Absolute nonsense.

Manny's explanation for wanting a cut off was perfectly legit. As far as I'm aware, the old links from 2005 are still online covering the Morales incident.

Tattoos? What the hell does having tattoos in his personal life and own leisure, have to do with having blood drawn before the biggest fight of his career, especially as he'd had a bad experience years earlier??

I've got friends who are body builders with sleeves inked on their arms and portraits of their kids, yet don't like blood been taken at their local GP's.

Then how is pacquiao scared of needles? He isn't scared of needles he just doesn't want to have his blood taken, that means they were caught in a lie of pedquiao being scared of needles.

That is the first of many many of lies

Yes, Manny backed out, because Floyd wouldn't agree to his terms. So what? I can say that if Floyd had agreed to his terms, we could have seen an earlier fight. Just because Manny didn't jump through all of Floyd's hoops, that doesn't constitute as a duck.

Why wasn't the cut off granted, considering there was no evidence of any wrongdoing, nobody else had an issue with fighting Manny, and Manny agreed to have an immediate after fight blood test?

Manny and bob arum declined to fight and backed out of the fight even though floyd agreed to everything including a ridiculous multi million dollar weight penalty if he came in overweight. .

THAT IS A FACT. FLOYD SIGNED HIS PART TO FIGHT BUT NOT MANNY.

That should have been sufficient.

Give me a logical reason as to why that wasn't accepted?

Manny didn't have to agree to ANYTHING.

It wasn't a commission who made the demands, it was Floyd based off of the accusations from his big mouth daddy.

Manny met him half way, so Floyd could have given him his cut off days.
Manny had a 10 week camp. So he was willing to be randomly tested for 7 of the 10 weeks, with an immediate after fight blood test. Where was the issue? Was he going to cheat for less than 3 weeks out of a 10 week camp? Seriously?

Manny wanted a 30 day cutoff, floyd didnt want to have any cutoff like true Olympic drug testing is supposed to be. Meaning they can take your blood any time without notifying you when they would stop. That doesn't mean they will automatically take your blood the day of the day before the fight.

FLOYD OFFERED 14 DAYS CUTOFF. MANNY DECLINED AND BACKED OUT OF THE FIGHT. THAT IS MANNY's FAULT.

FREDDIE ROACH EVEN SAID IT WAS THEIR FAULT THE FIGHT DIDN"T HAPPEN IN MARCH 2010.

You can't blame floyd

There were conflicting reports in 2010 and 2011, but in 2012, Manny publicly agreed to everything.

Nope, he said he agreed to any drug testing demands in 2011. Yet in other interviews said he had a problem with it being random, wanted a cutoff date and didn't want to work with USADA because it wasn't by the commission.

This is all on video LOL

Do you really believe that fighter A says to fighter B: "Sign and agree to this and then we'll discuss the rest afterwards..."?
We're talking about a mega money fight, with millions of dollars at stake, with international rights and sponsors etc.

Floyd did initially want all of the PPV revenue, saying that the flat fee was more than fair, considering Manny had never earnt anywhere near that amount before. I heard him say that.

At no point did floyd say they had a contract prepared, they just wanted a simple "yes" so they can move forward with negotiations. This happened in 2012 and guess what? BOB never tried to negotiate.

You still haven't addressed the blatant duck Bob arum did in 2012 though.

Bob arum never sent an official counteroffer, he never tried to negotiate, he already planned for manny to fight marquez, bradley, and possibly cotto for may 5th.

Arum had washed his hands of Ellerbe and Floyd at that point, because he considered them nothing more than time wasters. He made the Bradley fight and Floyd fought Cotto.

I've just had to ask myself why I'm even debating you when you've referred to Manny as "Pedquiao"

You don't want a debate.
Defend what?
A blatant duck?

Defend the blatant duck Bob arum did in 2012.
He wanted manny to fight on may 5th, already had opponents lined up with mayweather's name nowhere to be found.

Mayweather's gets his sentenced push back and publicly calls out Pacquiao for may 5th and guess what arum does?

1. Claims that pedquiao can no longer fight on may 5th

2. Claims they need time to build a stadium in vegas

3. Claims manny needs time to heal from a cut

4. Releases a name of potential fights for manny with no floyd in sight.

5. Claims manny should be the A side and deserves more than a 50/50 split.

Stop defending bob arum, he's conned every single boxing fan with these "negotiations"

Youre clearly losing this debate, you have no chance.