So what's tank excuse for not facing Loma?

[travestyny]

They said he is too young. That's the excuse being sold. Has over 200 amateur fights, held a belt that he lost on the scales, and has more pro fights than Loma, but Davis is too young. Lol. Oh, and they said Loma is not a draw, LMFAO!

I found it ironic that you seemed to emphasize how young he is, but then you don't mention the ages.

But regardless of the ages and why that might or might not be relevant, you mention Tank's experience, but you don't mention Loma's experience.

Tank:
23
221 (206 - 15) Amateur
19(19 - 0) Pro
Lost IBF Belt on the scale



Loma:
29
397(396 - 1) Amateur
12(11 - 1) Pro
Current WBO Champ

But didn't you defend Jack Dempsey for what you and Dempsey admit was ducking Sam Langford by saying this:

You said Dempsey ducked black fighters--to which he admits he only avoided ONE, that was a much more seasoned and experienced Sam Langford--

Don't you think this reveals a double standard?

To make it clearer, do you believe Davis' 7 more professional fights evens him out with Loma's 176 more amateur fights and 12 fights against better competition?

Besides a guy with 47 wins and 31 loses, the guys tank has fought in his first 12 fights had a combined record of 27 - 37. Loma's 12 opponents' record (from a quick tally) have something like a combined record of 308 - 27...and 12 of those losses are from Salido alone.

Loma is probably in his prime (he can probably get better), but it's clear that Tank is not yet there. Wouldn't you agree?

[Ray*]

He isn't ready, he knows he isn't ready, his promoter knows he isn't ready. Should i criticise them? Yes, would i? Nope why? Just because they admit they are NOT ready yet. And to be honest I don't want to see a fight that like, i want to see it when they are closer to each other or 50-50.

[GhostofDempsey]

I found it ironic that you seemed to emphasize how young he is, but then you don't mention the ages.

But regardless of the ages and why that might or might not be relevant, you mention Tank's experience, but you don't mention Loma's experience.

Tank:
23
221 (206 - 15) Amateur
19(19 - 0) Pro
Lost IBF Belt on the scale



Loma:
29
397(396 - 1) Amateur
12(11 - 1) Pro
Current WBO Champ

But didn't you defend Jack Dempsey for what you and Dempsey admit was ducking Sam Langford by saying this:




Don't you think this reveals a double standard?

To make it clearer, do you believe Davis' 7 more professional fights evens him out with Loma's 176 more amateur fights and 12 fights against better competition?

Besides a guy with 47 wins and 31 loses, the guys tank has fought in his first 12 fights had a combined record of 27 - 37. Loma's 12 opponents' record (from a quick tally) have something like a combined record of 308 - 27...and 12 of those losses are from Salido alone.

Loma is probably in his prime (he can probably get better), but it's clear that Tank is not yet there. Wouldn't you agree?

Buddy, let it go. Dempsey has been dead for almost 4 decades now. We're talking about boxing in the 21st century. Different era, different game.

Fans refer to Davis as the mini-Mike Tyson, but Tyson was fighting monsters at age 20, no excuses. ATGs like DLH, Trinidad, and even your hero Floyd weren't talking about not having enough experience to take on opponents when they were 23--and Floyd had half as many amateur fights as Gervonta.

Sorry, but once you win a title, you are expected to defend it against all comers. No more excuses about age, experience, etc.

[travestyny]

Buddy, let it go. Dempsey has been dead for almost 4 decades now. We're talking about boxing in the 21st century. Different era, different game.

What's different about ducking someone because you aren't yet experienced enough? That's the point?

Fans refer to Davis as the mini-Mike Tyson, but Tyson was fighting monsters at age 20, no excuses. ATGs like DLH, Trinidad, and even your hero Floyd weren't talking about not having enough experience to take on opponents when they were 23--and Floyd had half as many amateur fights as Gervonta.

Sorry, but once you win a title, you are expected to defend it against all comers. No more excuses about age, experience, etc.

Then why do you allow Dempsey the excuse. You can't just keep throwing out "different era" to explain all of this away. Keep it real. THERE IS NO DAMN DIFFERENCE FROM SAYING DEMPSEY WAS NOT YET EXPERIENCED ENOUGH FOR LANFORD AND DAVIS IS NOT YET EXPERIENCE ENOUGH FOR LOMACHENKO. How can the difference in era explain that away????

[N/A]

The same thing can be said when it comes to Crawford vs PBC fighters.

and i've repeatedly said the same thing about crawford.

[GhostofDempsey]

What's different about ducking someone because you aren't yet experienced enough? That's the point?





Then why do you allow Dempsey the excuse. You can't just keep throwing out "different era" to explain all of this away. Keep it real. THERE IS NO DAMN DIFFERENCE FROM SAYING DEMPSEY WAS NOT YET EXPERIENCED ENOUGH FOR LANFORD AND DAVIS IS NOT YET EXPERIENCE ENOUGH FOR LOMACHENKO. How can the difference in era explain that away????

You conveniently ignored my points once again. I provided you with examples of other fighters in similar situations who didn't hide behind the age excuse. But you insist on making excuses for Davis just because he is promoted by your hero.

Dempsey had about 15 fights at the time, Langford over 100. That is a tremendous gap that isn't even comparable to Loma/Davis. To that end, both Dempsey and Langford had a tremendous amount of respect for one another and each of them professed that the other was the greatest they had ever seen.

Sam Langford, when asked how Harry Wills (whom he fought 18 times in his career) would do against Jack Dempsey, said in the June 5, 1922, Atlanta Constitution "Well if he ever fights Dempsey my money will be on the present champion. Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen. He hits twice as hard as Jim Jeffries and is as fast in the ring as James J. Corbett."

[travestyny]

You conveniently ignored my points once again. I provided you with examples of other fighters in similar situations who didn't hide behind the age excuse. But you insist on making excuses for Davis just because he is promoted by your hero.

Dempsey had about 15 fights at the time, Langford over 100. That is a tremendous gap that isn't even comparable to Loma/Davis. To that end, both Dempsey and Langford had a tremendous amount of respect for one another and each of them professed that the other was the greatest they had ever seen.

Sam Langford, when asked how Harry Wills (whom he fought 18 times in his career) would do against Jack Dempsey, said in the June 5, 1922, Atlanta Constitution "Well if he ever fights Dempsey my money will be on the present champion. Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen. He hits twice as hard as Jim Jeffries and is as fast in the ring as James J. Corbett."

And you are conveniently leaving out some things.

Jack Dempsey would have been 21 during this proposed fight.

Langford would have been 33. That's a 33 year old with 169 professional fights. Against a 21 year old.

But don't think that Dempsey didn't have more experience than you may know about:

From the period beginning in 1911 he had as many as 100 unrecorded professional fights so records can be deceiving. These fights can be considered as Jack Dempsey’s “amateur” background.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/dempsey.html

And the only reason I ever seen him giving for not wanting fo fight the aging Lanford is that he was afraid of him.

Recalling the incident years later in his autobiography, Dempsey wrote, “The Hell I feared no man. There was one man, he was even smaller than I, and I wouldn’t fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford.”

Just say whether you think Tank is too green for Loma or not. I don't see how you make the argument that he isn't. Because he had 7 more professional fights against guys with terrible records? That's what I'm not getting here.

[BoxingIsGreat]

^Good discussions, guys. Informative history and cool headed! Thanks.

[GhostofDempsey]

And you are conveniently leaving out some things.

Jack Dempsey would have been 21 during this proposed fight.

Langford would have been 33. That's a 33 year old with 169 professional fights. Against a 21 year old.

But don't think that Dempsey didn't have more experience than you may know about:




And the only reason I ever seen him giving for not wanting fo fight the aging Lanford is that he was afraid of him.




Just say whether you think Tank is too green for Loma or not. I don't see how you make the argument that he isn't. Because he had 7 more professional fights against guys with terrible records? That's what I'm not getting here.

Again, Tank has plenty of experience to fight Loma. Davis' last opponent only had 64 amateur fights, so I guess you would be ok with Fonseca ducking Davis because he was far less experienced? If we take amateur fights into account, then most fights aren't going to be made because pros rarely have amateur resumes that align perfectly.

Bottom line, Davis is ducking Loma. He didn't think Liam Smith or Pedraza were "too old" for him, but Loma is. Can't have it both ways.

[travestyny]

Again, Tank has plenty of experience to fight Loma. Davis' last opponent only had 64 amateur fights, so I guess you would be ok with Fonseca ducking Davis because he was far less experienced?

No, man. We are talking 64 amateur fights vs. nearly 400 amateur fights. I see what you're trying to say here, but who's to say how much the amateur experience helped Tank. He did win the fight, after all.

Fonseca was 23 years old when they fought, and 19-0 vs. 18-0, and his early record looks similar to Tank's early record. (caliber of opponents fought).

You're comparing that to Loma who beyond the 400 amateur bouts have fought pros with a combined record of 308-27. Obviously Loma was put in to face this caliber of fighters because he was deemed ready for it. There's a reason that not many fighters are trying to become world champion in their 2nd bout.

If we take amateur fights into account, then most fights aren't going to be made because pros rarely have amateur resumes that align perfectly.

Bottom line, Davis is ducking Loma. He didn't think Liam Smith or Pedraza were "too old" for him, but Loma is. Can't have it both ways.

Sure, it can be labeled a duck, but what I'm asking is, is the reason justifiable? None of those guys have the pedigree of Loma, bro. Are you being serious?


Just a quick check. Did you give Mayweather full credit for Canelo? My guess is no. Maybe it's foolish of me to ask is it because you feel he drained him, or was Canelo too green? Perhaps both.