Comments Thread For: Bob Arum Sound Off, Drops Heavy Bombs on HBO's Peter Nelson

[PensionKiller]

Game of Thrones IS worth $15 a month

Yes GOT is, but the show will not air the new season until 2019...

[PensionKiller]

Bob is right though, HBO were the top dog and the super six happened which let Bob take Mosley and Pac to Showtime which was a sign of the end tbh though.

I dp think HBO 24 7 is great mind you, but their power as the top is over.

[Dr Rumack]

Bob is 86. How obsessed with money do you have to be to still talk like this in your mid-eighties. Help build a ****ing hospital or something. Or at least a boxing gym.

[hilltophustla4]

I think you're wrong bro. HBO hasn't changed, boxing has changed. What built HBO was showing the BEST BOXERS fighting the BEST BOXERS head to head. Tito and Whitaker were two of the best in the world back then. That was more important than their nationalities. If they had been B-level guys, but the same nationalities, no one would have cared, but if they were still just as good, but both from small foreign countries, people still would have cared.

If HBO had put GGG-Canelo on regular HBO, it would have done 3 or maybe even 4+ million views. Yes Canelo is Mexican, but GGG is from Khazakstan. If GGG and Kovalev were in the same division and they fought on regular, it would be a monster rating, and that's one Russian and one Khazak.

Do Mexicans start with bigger fanbases in the U.S. than Russians or Japanese fighters or other countries? Yes, and that explains why HBO pays Canelo way more than these other guys. But at the end of the day, HBO is doing the right thing, which is following the talent. If the top 10 guys in the sport, and also important, the top 10 most EXCITING guys in the sport, were all Mexican and American, then absolutely, focus more on them, but as I said, BOXING has changed, and right now, the best boxers are coming from all over the world. You know the PEDs that North America used to hoard in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s? Well apparently, the rest of the world has gotten their hands on that stuff now too, so now the talent is coming from everywhere!

Jk... kind of, lol. The point is, the talent is coming from different places now, so HBO is right to follow the talent. In fact, their biggest errors recently have been when they have shown bias to guys like Ward over Kovalev just because Ward is American. It has damaged their credibility irrepairably to the point that HBO Boxing will likely never be trusted again by most of its serious viewers until Jim, Max, and Roy are all replaced, and possibly even the producer because it seemed like the producer was also a part of that charade by hiding the camera angles from the viewing public that showed where Ward's final punches landed in a clear way, or at least showed the clear camera angle as few times as possible, and only one clear angle of the final punch rather than multiple good angles of ALL the final three punches, which have STILL been hidden from public viewing.

But as for Mexican and American boxers being featured, which Mexican or American boxer that isn't locked into the PBC would you want HBO to showcase instead of, for example, Inoue, that they haven't already showcased? HBO has already showcased the likes of Demetrius Andrade more than Inoue even though Andrade has provided zero in the way of entertainment or interesting matchups on their network. Every time a half decent American OR Mexican OR Puerto Rican prospect comes around, you can expect HBO to push them hard if Showtime doesn't get their first. In fact the real reason HBO started to show more foreign fighters was because Showtime and PBC with all that Waddell and Reed money were able to outbid HBO on all the best North American talent, leaving HBO with nowhere to go to get top level talent other than foreign countries. The problem for PBC and SHowtime was that it turned out, on average, the foreign fighters of this era were not just better, but more entertaining AND, most importantly, far more willing to actually take part in the SPORT of boxing and fight the other best fighters around their weight classes to prove who the best is, which is what non-racist fans appreciate more than anything in the sport.

So HBO sort of lucked out, but it was by accident. Don't actually get it twisted and start to think HBO prefers foreign fighters. They just got cornered into promoting foreign fighters, and lucked out that a handful of them turned out to be really good and really exciting, but make sure you understand, when push comes to shove, HBO will still favor the North American boxer every time, as they showed Ward and Kovalev. They are promoting foreign fighters, but only so they can use them as pawns later to build up North American boxers. Pacquiao was waited out until he got sold he that he can be used to build up Crawford. Kovalev was waited out until he had a baby and lost focus on boxing and was used to build up Ward, even though he still went against the script HBO had set up and beat Ward the first fight, but they just robbed him anyway and then HBO had their propagandists push dat brainwashing hard on the viewers. GGG was blackballed from getting any important fights until he got old, not once did HBO reach into their pockets to get him an opponent that could have made him a star, despite the fact HBO was willing to pay Andre Ward 2 million just to fight Edwin Rodriguez... not once did HBO help GGG in that way to get an actual good opponent, since unlike Ward, GGG actually would have used the money to get a good opponent instead of being happy to cherry pick, but instead, they let GGG get old so they could use him to build up Canelo. And Jacobs.

But GGG went against script against Canelo as well, so they just robbed him and made it a draw, forcing GGG to fight Canelo again when he's ANOTHER year older, which is again meant to set up Canelo to look much better than he would have vs prime GGG. They could have made GGG into the next PPV star like Pacquiao if they had gotten him these fights 3-4 years ago, when GGG would have knocked out Canelo and become a huge star, but instead they are using him to make Canelo into the star.

It wouldn't surprise me either if the plan with Lomachenko was simply to use him to make Mikey Garcia into the next Mexican PPV star, provided he can catch Lomachenko, which over 12 rounds is at least a fair possibility. They don't actually seem to like promoting foreign fighters, they just like them in the short term because they provide better, higher level entertainment for much cheaper $, and in the long term because they can then use these foreign "boogeymen" to build up North American boxers once the foreign "boogeymen" get old and are no longer the "boogeymen" anymore by the time the North American boxers fight them, a fact the HBO commentary team will of course intentionally leave out when providing the propaganda during the fight for all the casual fans tuning in who don't know the difference between a prime boxer and a past prime one.

So, the situation is more complex than you make it out to be. But in the end, I would hope all networks reward two things above all: talent, and being willing to test that talent REGULARLY against the other top talents in the sport. If the boxers who do that happen to be from the nation that the TV network is based in, or around that nation, then that's a bonus for the fans who like to root for Americans or Mexicans or Puerto Ricans etc, but that's all it is, a bonus. Without the first two characteristics, which are elite talent AND being willing to fight the best (otherwise that talent is not proven and could just be a mirage, plus it doesn't serve to entertain any of the paying fans if it's not competing against other elite talents), then it's not worth anything.

For example I would rather watch Gassiev vs Dorticos, a Russian vs a Cuban, than Spence vs Peterson, two Americans, and it's not even close. Why? Because Peterson was knocked out in 3 rounds by a small 140 pounder, and struggled to even hurt Amir Khan, so he's chinny himself, but not a power puncher either, yet he also starts slow and has low activity, so he's not going to win on the scorecards at the top level too often either. Now he's fighting a huge 147 pounder. Spence looks like he could prove to be just as good or better than Gassiev and Dorticos, we will have to see how they all develop, so Spence being in fights is a good thing, but Peterson has not proven to be on the level of Gassiev or Dorticos, so it's a mismatch, it's not a best vs best fight. Gassiev vs Dorticos is a matchup of two guys with A-grade power, and good skills. Spence vs Peterson is a matchup of only one guy with high level power at the world level.

So that's just an example. If there were tons of elite American boxers right now, and they were willing to fight the best, then HBO should show that, but the problem is that there is not as much elite American talent as there used to be, and of the good American boxers that do exist today, most of them are tied to PBC and barely ever fight, and half of them seem to be complete divas who follow the Floyd blueprint of ducking top competition and seem to think they are entitled to being paid millions to fight easy opponents. Terence Crawford is an example of one current American boxer who DOES have elite talent, and who HBO DID showcase, and yet look at the fights he gave them... who gave HBO better **** for their buck, Terence Crawford, or the foreign fighters? Because all Crawford did was drain down to divisions with no talent in them even though he was big enough to fight at 147 and weight bully B-level opponents. Are you really glad HBO showcased Crawford vs Ricky Burns? Or Gamboa who is half his size? At least that was a good fight, the single good fight of Crawford's career, but it was over the moment he turned southpaw and used his huge, huge reach advantage sit on the outside and smash Gamboa with check hooks from his power hand whenever Gamboa tried to get into punching range on the giant in front of him.

That's my point. Even the elite American talents that do exist, like Crawford and Ward, have not sought out very much top competition, and have made crazy demands in Ward's case. It's just not worth it. You would rather HBO spend 2 million dollars of their limited boxing budget every year to air Andre Ward vs Edwin Rodriguez once per year before he goes and retires again to fight his promoter in court for the next 12 months before coming back and doin the same thing? Or would you rather HBO gets FOUR GGG fights per year, for the same exact money as one Ward fight would cost them, AND instead of Ward handpicking an easy opponent, GGG lets HBO choose whichever opponent they want who they can find that will agree to face GGG?

That's how HBO got GGG-Pirog signed for low money with Pirog coming off of knocking out Danny Jacobs. If that had been Ward or Crawford, there would have been demands for four tuneup fights before taking a hard fight like that, and probably marinating that fight until Pirog had a kid and started drinking and lost focus on boxing, rather than coming off the best performance of his career when he was peaking. And the money demands would have been outrageous.

That is the difference. The best foreign fighters are not only better, in many cases, than their North American counterparts these days, but they are cheaper, they fight more often, and most importantly, they are willing to fight top opponents their size without requiring they wait until those opponents get old, or that they get paid five times what they are worth. If you can find an American or Mexican or Puerto Rican boxer like GGG, or Kovalev, or Lomachenko, or Bivol, who HBO has not already signed, then I bet you they would sign him in a split second, but the reality is that more of those guys just seem to be coming from foreign countries at the moment. Plus, as I said, most American boxers these days are signing with Haymon, and whether it's their modus operandi or him, all we know is that the result of that is that they fight very inactively, and are not aggressive at all in chasing down top opponents. They seem to have the exact opposite mentality of Sergey Kovalev, for example.

So that's why I said, if you can find more American boxers with the talent AND the desire to be great and PROVE themselves great like Kovalev has, for example, then I would love for HBO to showcase that fighter, and I would be a big fan of his, but sadly, it seems like most the top American boxers of today already think they are as good as Muhammad Ali the moment they debut on Showtime, and that it's an insult to them for anyone to ask them to fight top opposition to prove it. Like how the Charlos were so offended that fans wanted them to fight JRoc and Lubin. That's just another example. They were never offended when they were being fed bums by Showtime for years, but when fans wanted them to even fight fellow talented prospects, let alone top proven elite fighters, they were immediately offended.

That is the attitude that is pervading much of American boxing right now, and that attitude is very hard to promote. It's hard to make stars out of boxers with that attitude. Fans don't like the attitude, and fans dislike the fights that that attitude creates even more, which are mismatches, because fighters with that attitude never want to fight elite opposition unless that opposition is past their prime or they are getting overpaid to do it, often both.

That is the full story of what is happening with HBO and foreign fighters, and the rest of the topics that your post touches on. It's important not oversimplify what is really going on, and what ALL the factors and motives are that go into it.

Enough with the long quotes all of that just to hide the fact you don't like African Americans. Nobody waited anyone out. Kovalev lost Pac lost Pirog lost. Plain and simple. You're not a boxing fan you're a hater.

[Willy Wanker]

HBO needs all the big fights they can get. PBC is with Showtime. At this point, they need Arum more than he needs them.

Fighting on HBO was once the pinnacle of boxing, but they've been **** for several years now. HBO still has the best production and no other network promotes fights better than them. But all of that is useless if they only have a few star fighters.

[1mb11]

HBO fights have been terrible. Have to blame Peter Nelson. SHO fights have been great. Espinoza been putting his balls on Nelson's face.

[ShoulderRoll]

Arum is just pissed that HBO got sick of his one sided in-house mismatches.