Comments Thread For: Artur Beterbiev, Sergey Kovalev Eager To Settle Their Old Dispute

[N/A]

Kovalev was Stevenson's mandatory. Kovalev refused to participate in the purse bid and vacated his diamond title so he wouldn't be forced to fight Stevenson.

Kovalev ducked Stevenson in the most blatant way possible. This is all easily verifiable public information. Why do fans continue to allow themselves to be brainwashed by Kathy Duva?

[Boxing Logic]

This would be a great fight! Kovalev doing all of Stevenson's work for him as usual (and technically, Ward's work too, officially anyway, since he "won" the titles), but that is why win or lose, Kovalev will be remembered as a real champion when his career is over, and those two won't be.

Hope we see either Kovalev-Beterbiev next, or Kovalev-Jack, or Kovalev-Stevenson.

Ideally, given that Beterbeiv hasn't been around as long and there isn't as much context about him in boxing, I think it would be better if Kovalev-Stevenson happened first, or Kovalev-Jack. I sort of want a 175 eight many tournament ot start with the B+ fights, and then the winners of those fight in A-level fights, because that way whoever wins in the first round will have a lot more known about them, and it will make for much more intrigue going into the A-level fights.

See this is the opposite of what I wanted to happen in the 168 tournament, in terms of having to get through quarterfinals before getting to interesting matchups. Why? Because 168 does not have the talent to sustain an interesting quarterfinals round.

But 175 does! What that means is, if you make Kovalev-Beterbiev right away, you sort of ruin Kovalev-Jack if Kovalev loses, or you ruin Beterbiev-Jack if Beterbiev loses. And that goes for all the other marquee matchups at 175 as well. You sort of ruin 4 good introductory fights that would make the mega fights much bigger.

Kovalev has not officially had a big win in years. Beterbiev never has. Stevenson basically never has. Bivol never has. So doing Kovalev-Stevenson and Beterbiev-Bivol next, for example, does not have as much intrigue involved because we don't know enough about most of these guys.

BUT... if you make Kovalev-Jack, Bivol-Barrera, Beterbiev-Gvozdyk, and Stevenson-Alvarez or Joe Smith, first, then you strike gold. If Kovalev beats Jack, suddenly interest in his career is resparked. If Beterbiev beats Gvozdyk, he's legitimized as a top guy. If Stevenson knocks out Alvarez or Joe Smith, he proves himself still a decent boxer. If Bivol knocks out Barrera, now he has to be looked at as something special. And suddenly the fights between those four remaining guys now have even more interest.

Don't get me wrong, I am against marinating fights. I am strictly suggesting ONE, and only one, QUALITY fight, for each of these top guys, and only quality fights, before going into the big matchups. I don't want these fights overmarinated. The light heavyweight division has already been on hold for years outside of Kovalev-Ward. No one else would fight each other. Kovalev-Stevenson, Stevenson-Beterbiev, and Kovalev-Beterbiev have already been marinating for years. All I am saying is, now that 175 is in a rare position where seven or EIGHT mostly interesting and hard hitting boxers have emerged in the division, it would be a shame not to take advantage of that. Don't delay the GREAT fights more than 4-5 extra months, for sure do not delay the great fights ANY more than that, but don't waste the very good fights either so long as they do not cost the sport the great fights happening within 4-5 months of the very good fights.

In February: Kovalev vs Jack, Stevenson vs Gvozdyk, Bivol vs Barrera, Beterbiev vs Smith (I changed this up because this may be better)

In June: Kovalev vs Stevenson (or Gvozdyk), Bivol vs Beterbiev. Also, Jack vs Barrera, Gvozdyk (or Stevenson) vs Smith

In September: Kovalev/Stevenson(or Gvozdyk) winner vs Bivol/Beterbiev winner. Also, Jack vs Barrera winner vs Bivol/Beterbiev loser, and Gvozdyk (or Stevenson) vs. Smith winner vs Kovalev/Stevenson loser.

And then if boxing really wants to reach its heyday again, it can just keep mixing and matching new matchups out of that group, as well as introducing in new top talent as it comes along into the group.

That's what REALLY needs to happen to make boxing great again. So would Kovalev-Beterbiev next be great? Absolutely. And with their age, it really does need to happen immediately. In fact, age is the one factor that has me saying, forget everything I just said, and make the best matchups right away, don't even wait 4-5 months.

But, either way is fine with me. I just personally like the Kovalev-Jack matchup. Right now it has more hype, and more trash talk and bad blood and storylines and debate surrounding it, than Kovalev-Beterbiev does. And the same goes for Kovalev-Stevenson. But, IF Kovalev can actually beat Beterbiev at this point in his career, coming off three past prime-like performances, then those fights could still happen afterwards. It's just a big IF, although I would Kovalev, tentatively, over Beterbiev...

I can't complain either way. I want to see all these fights. Hope they happen ASAP in 2018.

KOVALEV CONTINUES TO DO HIS PART TO MAKE BOXING GREAT AGAIN AND BRING HYPE, INTEREST, RELEVANCE, COMPETITION, GREAT FIGHTS, TITLE OPPORTUNITIES FOR DESERVING CONTENDERS, AND $$ MONEY $$ TO THE LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION. THE QUESTION IS, WILL ANY OF THESE OTHER TOP LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHTS ON THE PBC SIDE DO THEIR PART??? KOVALEV IS "REPRESENTING," WHEN WILL ADONIS??

[Lemonhead_Jeff]

I don't think haymon was the problem with stevenson. I think steveson was the problem. Al haymon is in it for the money and an ugly convicted child abuser sitting on a belt until he's 40 years old probably wasn't the best return of investment. That and G.Y.M. seemed content selling tickets in canada.

Boxing gives people the chance to turn their life around, especially those who've made poor choices or gone down the wrong path. Unfortunately, no matter how much you change, there will always be small people eager to remind you of your past missteps.
As for the question of who is at fault regarding Adonis' poor competition, the answer is obviously Al Haymon. All you have to do is look at the level of opponents that Adonis was fighting BEFORE he signed with Haymon. Former world champions. After signing with Haymon he began fighting opponents that nobody had heard of.

[kafkod]

Kovalev was Stevenson's mandatory. Kovalev refused to participate in the purse bid and vacated his diamond title so he wouldn't be forced to fight Stevenson.

Kovalev ducked Stevenson in the most blatant way possible. This is all easily verifiable public information. Why do fans continue to allow themselves to be brainwashed by Kathy Duva?

So Kovalev petitioned the WBC asking to be installed as Stevenson's mando ... so that he could duck him when the request was granted?

Does that really make sense to you?

[Boxing Logic]

Kovalev offered the fight when Beterbiev wasn't mandatory and he (Artur) wanted that mandatory status to gain more money if it went to a purse bid.

It wasn't about money. Beterbiev's own promoter Yvon Michel admitted it was a very fair offer (financially and in every way). They simply said Beterbiev was not ready yet, and decided to go back on what they'd previously said before Kovalev called their bluff about how they were ready for a title shot "now." But they, or Al Haymon, decided once the offer was made that even if they were ready for a title shot, they weren't ready for Sergey Krusher Kovalev yet.

Hopefully that has changed? It's been so bad for boxing watching everyone duck Kovalev until Ward was told by a spy in Kovalev's camp that Kovalev wasn't the same anymore and was drinking and partying a lot, only for Ward to then still need to cheat against Kovalev.

Kovalev has either been ducked, or cheated, by all three of the top light heavyweights in the world after himself over the last three years. It's ridiculous. Luckily Gvozdyk and Bivol are emerging now, two seemingly true boxers who would never pull that ****. And hopefully Beterbiev isn't like that either, but it was just Al Haymon or something dictating he decline the fight, maybe because Haymon knew it would stall Beterbiev's career and rumors are Haymon hates white people so that would have, hypothetically, been a great sneaky way to screw over Beterbiev and set back a white man's career. Never giving Beterbiev the shot at Stevenson could have been another way for Haymon to do that as well hypothetically. We may never know.

I just hope these great fights happen starting May or June next year at the latest, and continuing round 2 of them no later than November next year. As boxing fans, let's all tweet the promoters and boxers, main_events on twitter, @yvonmichaelgym on twitter, badoujack twitter, mayweatherpromo twitter, hboboxing twitter, premierboxing twitter, TRBoxing twitter, Carlmoretti twitter, @wbsuperseries twitter to tell them to do a tournament at 175 next year, etc, to tell them fans are ready for these fights NOW! Also tweet the sanctioning bodies, such as @wbcmoro, to enforce someone good, like Gvozdyk, as Stevenson's mandatory, as well as the other sanctioning bodies, to mandate all the best fights ASAP!

[kennethjohn]

kovalev lost to ward twice you cant pretened he didnt'

[Boxing Logic]

So Kovalev petitioned the WBC asking to be installed as Stevenson's mando ... so that he could duck him when the request was granted?

Does that really make sense to you?

Don't bother. He is either biased or ignorant of what happened. Yes Kovalev dropped out of the purse bid... only after Stevenson's team petitioned the WBC to move the purse bid date way up in time to an early date when they knew Kovalev's team would not get the financing to participate in a purse bid until months later.

Everything was set up for the fight to happen, thanks to Team KOVALEV. A purse bid was set. Team KOVALEV was lining up the money from Russia to be able to make a huge bid that would have financed the fight and given both he and Stevenson a monster career high payday. All Team Stevenson had to do IF THEY REALLY WANTED TO FIGHT KOVALEV was sit back and wait for the purse bid date. After that point, Kovalev would have been locked in to fight him. If they were really "chasing" Kovalev, and not vice versa, well, he would have come right into their lap. All they had to do was wait, if that's what they wanted.

But they didn't want that, so they didn't wait. Instead, they manipulated the purse bid date in a way that they KNEW would squash the purse bid and get Kovalev removed from Stevenson's mandatory position.

See, it's the details that matter. Team Stevenson came up with a way to cancel the fight and dodge their mandatory without actually making it look like they were dodging their mandatory. They found a way to put the other side in a position they did not have the money to be in at that current moment so that the other side would have to retreat, instead of them, when in reality it was only the other side which had been attacking and chasing them in the first place the whole time. As you pointed out, it wasn't Stevenson who petitioned to have Kovalev be made his mandatory, it was Kovalev who petitioned to become Stevenson's. It was Team KOVALEV that kept making maneuvers to try to FORCE Stevenson to fight them, and it was Team STEVENSON that kept making maneuvers to either let Stevenson AVOID Kovalev entirely (i.e. declining to fight Kovalev during their shared time at HBO, then moving to Showtime once HBO asked Stevenson to sign a contract that he would eventually fight Kovalev), or to force Team KOVALEV to stop cornering them into a fight.

All of Team KOVALEV'S maneuvers were to try to make the Kovalev-Stevenson fight. All of Team STEVENSON'S maneuvers were to try to prevent Stevenson from having to fight Kovalev. It's that simple, and the proof is in the pudding. Just ask yourself, did rejecting the Kovalev fight numerous times while at HBO in order to fight the likes of Tavoris Cloud, Tony Bellew, and Andrejz Fonfara instead help make Kovalev-Stevenson a reality, or prevent it? Did leaving HBO for Showtime rather than fight Kovalev on HBO first help make Kovalev-Stevenson happen, or prevent it? Did petitioning to move a purse bid date months earlier before even Kovalev's previously scheduled fight had taken place help make Kovalev-Stevenson happen, or prevent it? The record is very clear. Kovalev kept trying to make the fight, Stevenson kept trying to prevent the fight. When people bring up Kovalev pulling out of the purse bid, all they are really doing is praising Stevenson's team for being clever duckers.

But for the record, they weren't so much clever duckers as they were being helped out by the WBC. The WBC has worked hand in hand with Haymon more than anyone else for years. They knew exactly what they were doing when they randomly accepted Stevenson's request to move the purse bid date months in advance, despite the fact that there was nothing wrong with the original date and in fact it made much more sense.

So, people should really do the math by now, and realize what happened. At this point I doubt Stevenson EVER faces a top guy.

[Boxing Logic]

kovalev lost to ward twice you cant pretened he didnt'

Agreed. We can't pretend, because you can only pretend things that aren't already true. We can say Kovalev never lost to Ward, however, because he didn't. We all know boxing is corrupt, and that official decisions are often inaccurate. In those cases, we as fans have to trust what we actually saw happen, not simply put blind trust into judges or referees or commissions who have a history of corruption and favoring the hometown money-making boxer.

With that understood, there are really only two ways to look at the outcome of the two Kovalev-Ward fights. One way is that Kovalev is 1-0-1, with him winning the first fight, and the second fight being a No Contest due to a corrupt or incompetent ref who did not allow the fight to take place on fair terms according to the rules of boxing, and who then did not even allow the slanted, unfair fight he had presided over to come to a true ending where we could have determined the winner of even the fight that was taking place under slanted rules.

The other way is that Kovalev is 2-0-0, having won the first fight on the cards, and having won the second fight by disqualification. Given that Kovalev was "stopped" by a corrupt or incompetent referee, but video replay shows the stoppage to have been caused by a series of intentional fouls, really the closest thing to a true result that fans can fish out of the unfinished mess that Tony Weeks created is for fans to say that the ref must have stopped Kovalev because he was hurt and could not continue, and the punches that hurt Kovalev to the extent that the ref stopped it were intentional fouls, so therefore the rules say Ward should have been disqualified.

Those are the only true results any fan can come to about the Kovalev-Ward fights when you ignore the corrupt scorecards and referees and add up what actually happened. 1-0-1 or 2-0-0. Kovalev outlanded, outhurt, and outdropped Ward in the first fight, while being the effective aggressor all night. Corrupt hometown judges aside, we all know that means he won. The second fight was an extremely corrupt affair where the hometown ref stopped a fight after a series of intentional low blows in a fight where neither man had even tasted the canvas once. In addition to that series of intentional fouls, the only legitimate punch Ward actually hurt Kovalev with, the right hand to the head in the final round, was set up by an intentional headbutt to Kovalev's temple AND another intentional headbutt to his balls.

So I mean, when you have a boxer intentionally headbutting their opponent in the balls, and that's not even the worst foul they commit all fight, then yeah, disqualification is actually a very reasonable idea as well. That's why I say, the only two true, reasonable outcomes any objective fan could have here is that it's either 1-0-1 Kovalev, or 2-0-0 Kovalev. Either way, Ward never beat Kovalev, that's for sure.

[Tobi.G]

I think Beterbiev is still a few fights away from a fight like that! But the sooner it happens the better!

[Boxing Logic]

I think Beterbiev is still a few fights away from a fight like that! But the sooner it happens the better!

Oh please. He's like 32 or 33 already isn't he? The time is now. Or, should I say, the time is 2018. And not the end of 2018 either. Or, should I say, all these top guys owe the division at least one very good opponent by June 2018, and one great opponent by January 2019 at the latest. I won't hold Beterbiev to fight Kovalev by June 2018, but if he doesn't at least fight Gvozdyk at the least by then, I will be disappointed. And either Kovalev or Stevenson should absolutely happen by the end of 2018.