Who do the soviet bloc boxers usually have better jabs than American boxers?

[JAB5239]

For me, it's the opposite. Statistically, Wladimir Klitschko has lost fewer rounds compared to any past heavyweight in history, which is mainly a testament to his jab. Furthermore, Wladimir Klitschko has statistically some of the greatest jabs landed, plus jabs connect percentage in history of not just heavyweight boxing, but boxing PERIOD! From what I've seen, no other heavyweight took as fewer punches as Wladimir Klitschko has with the jab being the primary defensive tool.

Like I said, he had a great jab and would have in any era. But I don't think his jab is testimony to his career but rather the weak comp of his era.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Like I said, he had a great jab and would have in any era. But I don't think his jab is testimony to his career but rather the weak comp of his era.

Can you objectively prove or demonstrate that Wladimir Klitschko's era was any 'weaker' than other eras?

[Mr Objecitivity]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "better"? IMO, it has little to do with their technique, but more so with their punching power. This could be psuedo-science, but I think the increased bone density from growing up in colder climates provides them with more natural punching power, which directly correlates to the effectiveness of their punches.

'Better' OVERALL at fulfilling purposes which the jab is meant to. So for example, Wladimir Klitschko's jab alone is better than any other boxer's jab (or even their all round abilities) at:

1) Controlling distance / Range to be in optimal
positions to attack (hit opponent) and defend (not
get hit by the opponent).

2) Scoring points by being able to out-box opponents
with just the jab.

3) Being able to set up power punches with the jab.

4) Inflicting damage upon the opponent and
subsequently discouraging them, inflicting pain and
etc.

5) Neutralizing opponent's offense / defense by
disrupting their rhythm and fight plan.


As for technique not being as much of a factor for those boxers having better jabs, just analyze Wladimir Klitschko's jab and then compare his jab to pretty much any American boxer, past or present. To me, I've personally seen no American boxer who jabs as:

1) Straight

2) Accurately

3) well timed

4) effectively, efficiently and economically using the
body mechanics

5) well positioned and well balanced


compared to Wladimir Klitschko. I don't think this is even debatable. Wladimir Klitschko has the greatest jab in history, as far as I'm concerned. Just by analyzing and comparing, not only do I think Wladimir Klitschko has more power, but better overall technique as well.

[elfag]

Heard of Larry Holmes? Ali, Mayweather Jr, Tommy Hearns, Andre Ward, Sonny Liston etc etc

to his point a lot of those guys are from previous eras. And generally soviets are associated with good jabs. We see way more american fighters over here so of course there are some with good jabs like winky or mayweather ect. but of the soviets that make it world level they almost all have good jabs and even the current fighters. its just incorporated into their style. and mayweather doesnt really use the jab in the way soviets do to land points but as part of a more complicated arsenal to distract ect.

[soul_survivor]

'Better' OVERALL at fulfilling purposes which the jab is meant to. So for example, Wladimir Klitschko's jab alone is better than any other boxer's jab (or even their all round abilities) at:

1) Controlling distance / Range to be in optimal
positions to attack (hit opponent) and defend (not
get hit by the opponent).

2) Scoring points by being able to out-box opponents
with just the jab.

3) Being able to set up power punches with the jab.

4) Inflicting damage upon the opponent and
subsequently discouraging them, inflicting pain and
etc.

5) Neutralizing opponent's offense / defense by
disrupting their rhythm and fight plan.


As for technique not being as much of a factor for those boxers having better jabs, just analyze Wladimir Klitschko's jab and then compare his jab to pretty much any American boxer, past or present. To me, I've personally seen no American boxer who jabs as:

1) Straight

2) Accurately

3) well timed

4) effectively, efficiently and economically using the
body mechanics

5) well positioned and well balanced


compared to Wladimir Klitschko. I don't think this is even debatable. Wladimir Klitschko has the greatest jab in history, as far as I'm concerned. Just by analyzing and comparing, not only do I think Wladimir Klitschko has more power, but better overall technique as well.

As good as Wlad was and he is starting get his just due, was his jab really great? He literally pawed at his opponents with it or just stuck his hand out against opponents who were much shorter than himself.

It lacked any real power in the majority of fights. In fact, he would often stick his arm out and jump back. Its why he looked so horrible against Fury, because he went up a guy who was comfortably 2 or more inches taller than he was and he couldnt just paw with his lead hand.

Lewis, another Steward student, had the same issue with his jab. It was more authoritative then Wlads but just as negative 90% of the time.

[Tom Cruise]

There are plenty of great active american fighters. As a russian having grown up and living in Canada, I admit to be biased towards eastern euro fighters, but I appreciate great talent from any country when I see it.

That being said, Ward’s jab & clinch tactics that he used throughout his career is pathetic and disgusting to watch.

I hope with a comment like that you arent a Wlad Klit fan?

[MDPopescu]

Just different schools. Just a guess but I suspect since a lot of Soviet countries had state-backed boxing programs whose sole goal was to win gold medals at amateur competition around the world, the boxing styles reflect an amateur-friendly style. Jab and straight cross are thus emphasized and drilled heavily in the "soviet" style (Kovalev, GGG, Usyk). I don't include Lomachenko with the others because he has a completely unique style that only he could pull off.

... yes... stiff left jab to prepare the straight right (power punch)... alternatives: left hook to the head and/or body...

[JAB5239]

Can you objectively prove or demonstrate that Wladimir Klitschko's era was any 'weaker' than other eras?

I can point out top fighters fought other top fighters less often because their we're four major orgs watering down the competition. I can also point out how bad skills had and still are deteriorating in the heavyweight division.

My point...Wlad didn't lose less rounds because of his great jab, he lost less rounds for the reasons I've pointed out.

[RedZmaja]

The jab isn't the be all end all. Like I said before, Soviet bloc fighters tend to have a pretty solid 1-2, but they lack in other "skill" departments like inside fighting, body work, and counterpunching. IMO, the most important skill in any sport is making adjustments and changing your look, which I haven't seen GGG, Kovalev, or Usyk do at all in their fights. Hence, why they are described as "robotic" in their approach.

I'm from Eastern Europe and tend to support the fighters from this region but I agree with you. I think that Eastern European boxing has to catch up when it comes to pro style and Eastern European school of boxing needs to teach more variety.

I think Eastern Europe (if you include all the ex-Soviet areas) has the best talent pool in boxing right now. That's a huge population of people with proven great athleticism in all kinds of sports and at the same time there's a lot of poverty and unemployment which makes people want to consider a career in pro boxing.

The talent is definitely there but the thing that Eastern Europe is lacking is a tradition of pro boxing and there just aren't that many good trainers for pro style. Their principles are basically always the same, they push orthodoxy over creativity.

That's why most top boxers from Eastern Europe have great power or great chins (or both) because if you learn all the fighters the same orthodox "1-2" style then the fighters with the best power and the best chin are going to come on top in the local amateur and pro ranks while some otherwise talented boxers might struggle because they don't have the tools to deal with monster punchers like Kovalev or Beterbiev.

The thing is, pro boxing only exists in Eastern Europe for less than 30 years, so it's only natural that the optimal level of knowledge and experience isn't there yet.

Lomachenko is a great exception and I think in the future we will see more creative fighters like that coming from Eastern Europe.

[Mr Objecitivity]

As good as Wlad was and he is starting get his just due, was his jab really great? He literally pawed at his opponents with it or just stuck his hand out against opponents who were much shorter than himself.

It lacked any real power in the majority of fights. In fact, he would often stick his arm out and jump back. Its why he looked so horrible against Fury, because he went up a guy who was comfortably 2 or more inches taller than he was and he couldnt just paw with his lead hand.

Lewis, another Steward student, had the same issue with his jab. It was more authoritative then Wlads but just as negative 90% of the time.

Yes, Wladimir Klitschko's jab was truly the 'greatest'. Not just 'great'.

What you're referring to as 'pawing' is 'probing'. Many other boxers also do that too. Like Guillermo Rigondeaux. He is also one of the best at probing to set up offense and establish superior defense. I don't see how that proves Wladimir Klitschko's jab wasn't great.

As far as using it against shorter opponents, he has also used it against opponents his own size or taller. For example, against Mariusz Wach, Tony Thompson, Jameel Mccline and etc. So he has proved he can do it against opponents of nearly any style or physical dimension. Also, even if he used it only against shorter opponents, there have been many other boxers who had a similar height + reach advantage against their opponents as well. Yet, why haven't they been able to use this move just as effectively to gain a similar level of success in their careers? It proves that height and reach aren't the only factors.

The idea that Wladimir Klitschko's jab had no real power is totally false! Ask any of his opponents during his peak (2005 - 2012) how much power it had. If it had no power, opponents would've just walked through it and wouldn't have respected it at all. Instead, it's the opposite. In addition, he has rearranged his opponent's faces by just the use of his jab in many fights. He consistently violently snaps his opponent's head backward with that jab. Hence, opponents are forced to be cautious by backing off and staying out of range. Which allows him to control the center of the ring.

Wladimir Klitschko's jab even puts Golovkin's jab to shame (someone with one of the greatest jabs in middleweight history). His ability to control range / distance is unparalleled by any boxer in history that I've seen, to the point where it is as close to superhuman as one can get.

For Wladimir Klitschko, head movement is mostly irrelevant, body punching is irrelevant, combination punching is mostly irrelevant and counter punching is mostly irrelevant because of how nigh superhumanly great his jab is. There has never been a boxer like that before! Other boxers use more moves, but still have inferior defense (get hit more) and also have inferior offense (inflict less damage upon their opponents). So there isn't any question or doubt that Wladimir Klitschko's jab is the greatest in history, at least compared to any past boxer I've seen.

As far as Wladimir Klitschko looking horrible against Fury, that's because he was close to the age of 40 whilst Fury was over 10 years younger. This is not a secret or mystery. Practically every past heavyweight champion by that age was losing to the young top heavyweights of their era whilst they were close to the age of 40. One bout is a very small sample to judge a boxer's quality. I tend to look at their entire career to get the best gauge.