he definitive guide to Arum ducking fighters and spreading lies

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  • whoelsebutjames
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    #91
    Originally posted by JoeMan
    *struggles to explain his indifference in a 140 characters or less*
    youre an idiot.

    Originally posted by jmrf4435
    *spoke his peace and left*

    The Anatomy of Non-PPV Mismatch, and who left who

    First let's look at a quote from Bob.
    ------------
    "The people at HBO still don’t understand what makes a fight entertaining,” Bob Arum says. “I have to understand because I’m a promoter...... ‘These are the fights that we’re telling you to want,’ and the public is smarter than that.”
    For over twenty years, Seconds Out has been delivering the very latest boxing news, results, interviews and more.

    ---------------
    Back to that in a minute.

    While Arums move to ESPN, has been largely heralded as smartest business move of the year, it was probably smarter business for HBO. HBO sided with Top Rank in the war against GBP(2013)/PBC/Showtime, it's boxing ratings have continually declined. Leading them to decline airing Pacquiao vs Vargas, and releasing Pacquiao from his contract.

    HBO released this thinly veiled statement.
    ------
    "Our fight lineup includes an array of 50-50 competitive fights, culminating with the best fight of 2017 in Canelo Alvarez versus Gennady Golovkin on September 16," Nelson told ESPN.
    "We, however, cannot show every fight, though we remain fans of Terence and Vasyl, and proud of what we did for their careers together with Top Rank. We wish them the best( big lols)."
    ---------------
    In other words.... the audiences are tired of the mismatches too. And contrary to what I quoted from Bob, HBO believes they do know what a good fight is.

    See
    , as I said in a previous post. Bob is the megalomaniac. He has to tell everybody how smart that he is.... Well, HBO might be slow but not slower than your average boxingscene poster.

    Let's look deeper.....

    Hbo paid Crawford 1.2 million and Hank Lundy 150k to stand in front of him. That's at least 2.2 million spent on a bout that drew 980k viewers. That's over 2.3 million every 1 million* viewers, rounded.

    Hbo paid Cotto(Arum) 2 million and Yuri Foreman (Arum)750k to stand in front of him. That's nearly 2.7 million spent on a bout 1.9 million viewers. This is an important metric since Rounded, that's a roughly 1.3 million spent per million viewers. In boxing, when the channel pays for the rights to televise broadcast and own the recording it's called licensing fees by the way. I would of assumed that the live gate would have offset the cost to HBO but according to this article, I'm wrong---As Bob is quoted saying HBO paid 2.7 million in licensing fees for this fight.
    Source:
    For over twenty years, Seconds Out has been delivering the very latest boxing news, results, interviews and more.


    1. Basically, for a mismatch HBO pays a 1 to 2 dollar per viewer. For a fight with a 2 million budget the TOP RANK fighter demands nears 75%-90% of the purse-- half of that to ARUM--and the opponent who doesn't belong in the ring gets pennies.
    2. Only horrible fighters are going to be willing to fight for such a small piece of the pie
    3. 2 million for one fight out of 25 million budget.

    In comparison.

    Between 2012 and 2015, game of thrones cost about 6million and episode to make. In 2014, Thrones averaged 14.4 million viewers. That's about a million dollars spent every 2.4 million viewers

    Trueblood reportedly cost about 3 million an episode and had about 7 million viewerss. That's about a millions dollars spent every 2.3 million viewers. Plus they can peddle DVDs and iTunes rentals/downloads of tv shows. Nobody buys old fights.

    HBO basically pays 0.50 per viewer for shows with a larger audience. Bob made boxing cost a $1.00 per viewer at the least.

    Think about it-- They have a 123+ million subscribers to entertain. HBO makes about 1.1 Billion a year from subscriber service. Espn makes about 3.9 billion from Ads, and 6 Billion from app subscribers services. While ESPN ad revenue 3x that of the revenue generated by HBO it would be foolhardy to think they will throw money away at constant mismatches either.


    ESPN presumably paid 750 k for Lomanchenko to practice his double end bag technique on Marriaga, who was tethered down with a 50k check, a total of 800k. In return they got about 730k viewers. In comparison, Walters vs Lomachenko didn't 760k viewers. But with HBO the pool of viewers was much smaller than cable. So that fells you how bad it is.

    See, Loma needs Rigos, after all.

    ESPN also worried us boxing fans by not announcing that they were switching it to ESPN2. Neither did they bother to turn off the NFL HOF induction that had about 690k viewers. Possibly because it was doing bigger numbers on the NFL network-- and wanted to spitefully drain them. But, it felt like a bad omen for boxings fresh start. And it definately meant they weren't all-in with Bobs boxing.

    The cost of a 30 second commercial is said to average 30k. With 12, 1 minute breaks over as many of three fights; potentially 2.3 million. Plus breaks in between fights, and various things that can be cut out in favor of more advertising time. That looks good but unlike premium channels, cable tv works off viewership rating. In essence, the percentage of total viewers tuned into television at any given period. Low ratings means lower rates for the commercials and so on and so on. 700k viewers may or may not get done. Especially at the price point and purse splits Bob is using to attract opponents.

    All of that is to say this, Bob Arums mismatches hurt the brand of HBO. ESPN may have been enticed by the 4.4 million from PAC Vs Horn, but they'll quickly forget if 700k becomes the new norm. Bob took a risky gamble on Horn and if the fans don't respond, he might of done more harm then good for the sport of boxing.

    Bob had it too good at HBO, they paid him to make himself money(cut from the fighter and gate)with little to no risk. He used their network to build up hype for real fights that were only available on PPV. And, HBO says the money they can make off PPV is capped, and not much at all, compared to what they get from their subscribers.

    I'll end this with Bob.

    “In my opinion, they have an obligation to distribute this fight....
    The fact that they passed means the contract is over, it seems clear to me.....My feeling is, based on my legal background, is that the contract is terminated,” said Arum.- in reference to HBO passing on televising PAC vs Horn.
    Last edited by whoelsebutjames; 09-07-2017, 08:55 PM.

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    • whoelsebutjames
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      #92
      Originally posted by maracho
      Didn't Floyd have uncle Roger and Ped guru Don Hale , which is how he was able to drop out of highschool without a job.

      But then for some strange reason Floyd went and got his first big opportunity from that rotten briber Bob Arum. At least now he's working for Al Haymon the guy who helped Beyonce's Dad rip her off

      But then I don't hear about the Arums beating up a bunch of girlfriends, baby mommas and grandmas

      Mayweather Productions made over $100 million last saturday to fight a dude with a record of 0-1 but paid co-main event fighter Fransisco Fonteca $35,000 to get robbed via a couple hits to the back of the head by a little monster.
      Lololollllololollol

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      • maracho
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        #93
        Originally posted by whoelsebutjames
        You couldn't help yourself lol amusing. I disagree, givd Arum a lot of undeserved respect.

        Arum will be ok. People such as yourself are indifferent. Arum is from the old paradigm, I'm welcoming him to the new paradigm. The Information Age.
        I'm not indifferent and I learned a bit from it I but I didn't like your motives - deflecting from the other promoters

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        • whoelsebutjames
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          #94
          Originally posted by maracho
          I'm not indifferent and I learned a bit from it I but I didn't like your motives - deflecting from the other promoters
          There's been Arum threads before. They were scattered and lacked focus. But nobody done it quite like this...

          Comment

          • whoelsebutjames
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            #95
            Originally posted by whoelsebutjames
            youre an idiot.




            The Anatomy of Non-PPV Mismatch, and who left who

            First let's look at a quote from Bob.
            ------------
            "The people at HBO still don’t understand what makes a fight entertaining,” Bob Arum says. “I have to understand because I’m a promoter...... ‘These are the fights that we’re telling you to want,’ and the public is smarter than that.”
            For over twenty years, Seconds Out has been delivering the very latest boxing news, results, interviews and more.

            ---------------
            Back to that in a minute.

            While Arums move to ESPN, has been largely heralded as smartest business move of the year, it was probably smarter business for HBO. HBO sided with Top Rank in the war against GBP(2013)/PBC/Showtime, it's boxing ratings have continually declined. Leading them to decline airing Pacquiao vs Vargas, and releasing Pacquiao from his contract.

            HBO released this thinly veiled statement.
            ------
            "Our fight lineup includes an array of 50-50 competitive fights, culminating with the best fight of 2017 in Canelo Alvarez versus Gennady Golovkin on September 16," Nelson told ESPN.
            "We, however, cannot show every fight, though we remain fans of Terence and Vasyl, and proud of what we did for their careers together with Top Rank. We wish them the best( big lols)."
            ---------------
            In other words.... the audiences are tired of the mismatches too. And contrary to what I quoted from Bob, HBO believes they do know what a good fight is.

            See
            , as I said in a previous post. Bob is the megalomaniac. He has to tell everybody how smart that he is.... Well, HBO might be slow but not slower than your average boxingscene poster.

            Let's look deeper.....

            Hbo paid Crawford 1.2 million and Hank Lundy 150k to stand in front of him. That's at least 2.2 million spent on a bout that drew 980k viewers. That's over 2.3 million every 1 million* viewers, rounded.

            Hbo paid Cotto(Arum) 2 million and Yuri Foreman (Arum)750k to stand in front of him. That's nearly 2.7 million spent on a bout 1.9 million viewers. This is an important metric since Rounded, that's a roughly 1.3 million spent per million viewers. In boxing, when the channel pays for the rights to televise broadcast and own the recording it's called licensing fees by the way. I would of assumed that the live gate would have offset the cost to HBO but according to this article, I'm wrong---As Bob is quoted saying HBO paid 2.7 million in licensing fees for this fight.
            Source:
            For over twenty years, Seconds Out has been delivering the very latest boxing news, results, interviews and more.


            1. Basically, for a mismatch HBO pays a 1 to 2 dollar per viewer. For a fight with a 2 million budget the TOP RANK fighter demands nears 75%-90% of the purse-- half of that to ARUM--and the opponent who doesn't belong in the ring gets pennies.
            2. Only horrible fighters are going to be willing to fight for such a small piece of the pie
            3. 2 million for one fight out of 25 million budget.

            In comparison.

            Between 2012 and 2015, game of thrones cost about 6million and episode to make. In 2014, Thrones averaged 14.4 million viewers. That's about a million dollars spent every 2.4 million viewers

            Trueblood reportedly cost about 3 million an episode and had about 7 million viewerss. That's about a millions dollars spent every 2.3 million viewers. Plus they can peddle DVDs and iTunes rentals/downloads of tv shows. Nobody buys old fights.

            HBO basically pays 0.50 per viewer for shows with a larger audience. Bob made boxing cost a $1.00 per viewer at the least.

            Think about it-- They have a 123+ million subscribers to entertain. HBO makes about 1.1 Billion a year from subscriber service. Espn makes about 3.9 billion from Ads, and 6 Billion from app subscribers services. While ESPN ad revenue 3x that of the revenue generated by HBO it would be foolhardy to think they will throw money away at constant mismatches either.


            ESPN presumably paid 750 k for Lomanchenko to practice his double end bag technique on Marriaga, who was tethered down with a 50k check, a total of 800k. In return they got about 730k viewers. In comparison, Walters vs Lomachenko didn't 760k viewers. But with HBO the pool of viewers was much smaller than cable. So that fells you how bad it is.

            See, Loma needs Rigos, after all.

            ESPN also worried us boxing fans by not announcing that they were switching it to ESPN2. Neither did they bother to turn off the NFL HOF induction that had about 690k viewers. Possibly because it was doing bigger numbers on the NFL network-- and wanted to spitefully drain them. But, it felt like a bad omen for boxings fresh start. And it definately meant they weren't all-in with Bobs boxing.

            The cost of a 30 second commercial is said to average 30k. With 12, 1 minute breaks over as many of three fights; potentially 2.3 million. Plus breaks in between fights, and various things that can be cut out in favor of more advertising time. That looks good but unlike premium channels, cable tv works off viewership rating. In essence, the percentage of total viewers tuned into television at any given period. Low ratings means lower rates for the commercials and so on and so on. 700k viewers may or may not get done. Especially at the price point and purse splits Bob is using to attract opponents.

            All of that is to say this, Bob Arums mismatches hurt the brand of HBO. ESPN may have been enticed by the 4.4 million from PAC Vs Horn, but they'll quickly forget if 700k becomes the new norm. Bob took a risky gamble on Horn and if the fans don't respond, he might of done more harm then good for the sport of boxing.

            Bob had it too good at HBO, they paid him to make himself money(cut from the fighter and gate)with little to no risk. He used their network to build up hype for real fights that were only available on PPV. And, HBO says the money they can make off PPV is capped, and not much at all, compared to what they get from their subscribers.

            I'll end this with Bob.

            “In my opinion, they have an obligation to distribute this fight....
            The fact that they passed means the contract is over, it seems clear to me.....My feeling is, based on my legal background, is that the contract is terminated,” said Arum.- in reference to HBO passing on televising PAC vs Horn.
            This post ties the whole thread together. Maybe, this should be a seperate thread? Hmmmmm

            Comment

            • Robbie Barrett
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              #96
              Originally posted by whoelsebutjames
              The definitive guide to Arum ducking fighters

              Arums fighters don't fight anybody dangerous but he gives them the reputation of dangerous in order to manuever himself into more money via public opinion. His fighter chase money fights but he derides people not under his banner for chasing money fights! Double talk. His stable was shoddy at best. He wants Ramirez vs Golovkin what about the other super middles?

              Lets look at Arums matchmaking.

              Arum fighters @ super feather weight via http://www.toprank.com/
              (current Donaire left THIS YEAR 2017)

              Nicholas Walters
              Jason Sosa
              Miguel Marriaga
              Vasyl Lomachenko
              joseph Adorno
              Erick De Leon

              NICHOLAS WALTERS LAST 4 fights
              2016-11-26 Vasyl Lomachenko* Arum/Toprank
              2015-12-19 Jason Sosa Arum/Toprank
              2015-06-13 Miguel Marriaga Arum/Toprank
              2014-10-18 Nonito Donaire* Arum/Toprank

              Vasyl Lomachenko Last 4 fights
              2017-08-05 Miguel Marriaga Arum/Toprank
              2017-04-08 Jason Sosa Arum/Toprank
              2016-11-26 Nicholas Walters Arum/Toprank
              2016-06-11 Roman Martinez


              Lets look at Pacquiaos run at WelterWeight

              2017-07-02 Jeff Horn TOP RANK in US FIGHTS
              2016-11-05 Jessie Vargas ARUM/TOPRANK
              2016-04-09 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
              2015-05-02 Floyd Mayweather Jr
              2014-11-23 Chris Algieri (top rank futures contract)
              2014-04-12 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
              2013-11-24 Brandon Rios ARUM/TOPRANK
              2012-12-08 Juan Manuel Marquez ARUM/TOPRANK
              2012-06-09 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
              2011-11-12 Juan Manuel Marquez ARUM/TOPRANK
              Marquez signed to Arum to Face Pacqaiou III, click here lol
              2011-05-07 Shane Mosley
              2010-11-13 Antonio Margarito ARUM/TOPRANK
              2010-03-13 Joshua Clottey ARUM/TOPRANK
              2009-11-14 Miguel Cotto ARUM/TOPRANK
              Mosley had to leave GBP and sign with Top Rank for the Pacquiao fight too.

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              • maracho
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                #97
                Originally posted by whoelsebutjames
                This post ties the whole thread together. Maybe, this should be a seperate thread? Hmmmmm

                Again, Mayweather Production's Mayweather/ McGregor undercard had bigger mismatches, a higher PPV price, and less pay for the fighters.
                Last edited by maracho; 09-08-2017, 12:22 AM.

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                • whoelsebutjames
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                  #98
                  Originally posted by maracho
                  Again, Mayweather Production's Mayweather/ McGregor undercard had bigger mismatches, a higher PPV price, and less pay for the fighters.
                  That's not tv. I wrote about tv in my post.
                  Cleverly vs jack was supposed to be s good fight btw.

                  Now that I've shown that 90% of the Mayweather slander came from Arum, you still want to bring it back to Mayweather.

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                  • whoelsebutjames
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                    #99
                    Originally posted by maracho
                    Again, Mayweather Production's Mayweather/ McGregor undercard had bigger mismatches, a higher PPV price, and less pay for the fighters.
                    You should look at this like an intervention. I'm trying to help Bob. Bob needs help. His megalomania has reeked destruction on the sport

                    I don't want to see boxing get kicked off ESPN 2

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                    • maracho
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                      #100
                      Originally posted by whoelsebutjames
                      That's not tv. I wrote about tv in my post.
                      Cleverly vs jack was supposed to be s good fight btw.

                      Now that I've shown that 90% of the Mayweather slander came from Arum, you still want to bring it back to Mayweather.
                      The huge first post of this thread was also posted multiple times your recent Floyd thread because you blamed all the ill repute surrounding Floyd on Arum's so called false news

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