he definitive guide to Arum ducking fighters and spreading lies

[whoelsebutjames]

The definitive guide to Arum ducking fighters

Arums fighters don't fight anybody dangerous but he gives them the reputation of dangerous in order to manuever himself into more money via public opinion. His fighter chase money fights but he derides people not under his banner for chasing money fights! Double talk. His stable was shoddy at best. He wants Ramirez vs Golovkin what about the other super middles?

Lets look at Arums matchmaking.

Arum fighters @ super feather weight via http://www.toprank.com/
(current Donaire left THIS YEAR 2017)

Nicholas Walters
Jason Sosa
Miguel Marriaga
Vasyl Lomachenko
joseph Adorno
Erick De Leon

NICHOLAS WALTERS LAST 4 fights
2016-11-26 Vasyl Lomachenko* Arum/Toprank
2015-12-19 Jason Sosa Arum/Toprank
2015-06-13 Miguel Marriaga Arum/Toprank
2014-10-18 Nonito Donaire* Arum/Toprank

Vasyl Lomachenko Last 4 fights
2017-08-05 Miguel Marriaga Arum/Toprank
2017-04-08 Jason Sosa Arum/Toprank
2016-11-26 Nicholas Walters Arum/Toprank
2016-06-11 Roman Martinez


Lets look at Pacquiaos run at WelterWeight

2017-07-02 Jeff Horn TOP RANK in US FIGHTS
2016-11-05 Jessie Vargas ARUM/TOPRANK
2016-04-09 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
2015-05-02 Floyd Mayweather Jr
2014-11-23 Chris Algieri (top rank futures contract)
2014-04-12 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
2013-11-24 Brandon Rios ARUM/TOPRANK
2012-12-08 Juan Manuel Marquez ARUM/TOPRANK
2012-06-09 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
2011-11-12 Juan Manuel Marquez ARUM/TOPRANK
Marquez signed to Arum to Face Pacqaiou III, click here lol
2011-05-07 Shane Mosley
2010-11-13 Antonio Margarito ARUM/TOPRANK
2010-03-13 Joshua Clottey ARUM/TOPRANK
2009-11-14 Miguel Cotto ARUM/TOPRANK

hmmmm... i wonder why Khan vs Pac never happened... 4/12 fighters were not with top rank.. Where is the Pac vs Thurman, Brook, Spence Porter talk?????? The Khan pac rivalry didnt produce a fight because Khan is with Al Haymon... Pacs literally ran out of ARUM fighters to fight LOL

AMIR KHAN SAYS BOB ARUM TO BLAME FOR PACQUIAO FIGHT NOT HAPPENING; EXPLAINS IN DETAIL WHAT HAPPENED


Said fight was done.... Bob held it up...

3 different fighters.. same thing...... Do you notice a pattern here
Can Arum negotiate a fight where his fighter is not the A side???

Every non arum fighter is a cautious fighter...



----------------
Addendum : Why don't the best fight the best ??
Arum is so unbiquitous with boxing that the hyperbole we hear is never even attributed him. The boxing scribes mimic his opinion and repeat them verbatim with out ever acknowledging the source.

Arum easily makes fights with other promoters anytime his fighter is clearly the A Side. Such as Terrence Crawford career. Terrence fought Molina semi-recently who is managed by Haymon. When negotiations are in his favor the fights get made expeditiously.



Arum has already started to criticize Thurman and Danny Garcia. In the video I posted in the an initial post.
As khan said in the other video I posted he thought the fight with Pacquiao was dons and Arum changed directions without notice. So we already know, now that Terrence is at 147 who he will be targeting- Khan, Garcia, Thurman. I think the Khan thing is important because it was an easy rivalry to sell. Khan ran his mouth too much about roach's gym and deserved that beating.

The Khan fight is a no brainer but if Haymon fighters --whom are used to getting paid well- don't want to get bullied at the negotiation table he will be calling them ducks. That's how his game works.

Arum is easily able to manipulate public opinion through his influence and slander to get things his way. When he can't get favorable terms we get fights like PAC Vs Rios, PAC vs Clottey, PAC vs Algeri, Loma vs Sosa, Loma Vs Marriaga. He's litterally making tomato cans look like viable opponents because everybody else is "scared or wants too much money." I think he's the one who wants too much money.

Garcia calls out Loma and instead of giving a reasonable explanation such as-- why would Loma move up now-- or Loma needs a few more fights to grow into weight. It's Mikey wants millions. Broner wants millions. But we all know where the Mikey's a duck slander started right?
Lomanchenko 750k vs Marriaga 50k 94/06 split
Lomachenko 1 mil vs Walters 300k 70/30 Link here


And these are all his fighters lol. imagine what he's trying to do to the competion. hmmm.. but what about this http://www.boxingscene.com/lomachenk...g-more--102851

Hell, Roman got a better deal.
Lomanchenko 850k vs Martinez (reported)425-550k 60/40

To put this in perspective. Salido Vs Vargas 950k viewership. Loma vs Marriaga 720k viewership, Loma vs Sosa 900k viewership. Loma vs Walters 760k viewership. Lomanchenko vs Martinez 580k viewership

There's no doubt in mind that Pacquiao, Crawford, and Loma will fight anybody you put in front of them.

Arum always looking for futures on his fighters opponents. Arum matching his fighters against garbage while saying eveybods ducking continues.

----------------------

Pacquiao vs broner. (Two videos)

Arum wants broner for pac 05/17


Arum bashes everyfighter that doesnt belong to him. Look on youtube and you will find more than enough evidence. People only believe Arum when its conveinant.


Mikey beating broner means nothing 3 months later, lol



Mikey calls out Loma.. Arum says Mikey is not a draw

which is my earlier point verbatim....
Arums fighters don't fight anybody dangerous but he give them the reputation of dangerous in order to manuever himself into more money via public opinion. His fighter chase money fights but he derides people not under his banner for chasing money fights!

oh yea....
_____________________________________________
In a recent interview, Top Rank's CEO, Bob Arum, stated that WBC lightweight champion Mikey Garcia (37-0, 30 KOs) is demanding "millions of dollars" for a fight with Vasyl Lomachenko (8-1, 6 KOs), who holds the WBO super featherweight title.
Garcia has no idea how Arum came up with that information, because he says the two of them have never discussed the financial terms, or any terms for that matter, for a Lomachenko fight.
"Bob Arum does not even know what we're asking for, because we've never sat down to discuss that issue. He always says that I ask for a lot of money, and that's why the fights have never been given to me, but that's something that can not be known - simply because he's never sat down and talked to me. We have never discussed that issue," Garcia said to ESPN Deportes.

http://www.boxingscene.com/mikey-gar...o-bout--119162
____________________________________

needle gate via Alex Ariza, Mannys former conditioning coach



and heres alex on mikeys contract dispute

___________________________________
Heres how toprank does business....

The lawsuit alleges that Garcia’s contract “improperly provides Top Rank the ability to extend the agreement indefinitely, essentially rendering the contracting fighter an indentured servant of Top Rank.” The filing claims that the contract violates California law. It also claims that the promoter has also violated the United States’ Muhammad Ali Act for multiple reasons, including “by failing to make required disclosures to Garcia concerning, among other things, the amount of money it would make from each of Garcia’s bouts.”
According to Garcia, the contract with Top Rank is already expired - with two pending clauses remaining. One clause provides Top Rank with the ability, until the end of May, to match any competitor's offer. The other clause provides Top Rank with the promotional rights to Garcia's first five defenses [if he is holding a title at the time his promotional contract expires].

Before you corporate cheerleaders start clamoring a clause is a clause.. Yes, but failing to disclose it, is serious shady business.

Toprank settled. Settlement is undisclosed. If they had a good counter suit and did things properly, do you think they would of relented it?

ARUM VS HAYMON since 2006

Without fanfare, which is a rarity in boxing, Floyd Mayweather Jr. filed a lawsuit against his former promoter, Bob Arum of Top Rank, in Clark County (Nev.) District Court two weeks ago.

Mayweather claims that Arum shortchanged him on matches against Arturo Gatti in 2005 and Zab Judah in 2006. In the lawsuit, Mayweather said he was due 85% of Top Rank's revenue from the Gatti fight and 80% from the Judah fight. He claims Arum has refused to turn over the records for accounting. Mayweather has asked for the statutory minimum of $10,000 on each of the five counts, but would be in line for millions in punitive damages on a breach of contract claim.

"There's no question we owe him some money," Arum said. "There's no dispute there. But he owes us a lot of money and the people he's involved with owe us even more. After 98% of the money we owed him was paid, we stopped paying him for a reason.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...ticle-1.286596

Arum said he paid money to J Prince and other fees. Nothing became of that lawsuit that i know of. But it definitively proves that they were no longer on good terms after the Oscar fight.. Makes sense why he didnt fight Arum fighters

Oh yea... Cotto left Arum in 2011. Mayweather fought Cotto in 2012.. Coincidence???

Bob Arum Why He Will Never Forgive Miguel Cotto


He clearly says... "Cotto Pledged himself to us for the rest of the career"

Whole career????? Really, Bob... You can't forgive him for being a business man..INSANE

Margarito vs Mayweather
Arum said while Mayweather would have taken the $8 million to fight Margarito, he asked for a $10 million guarantee to fight opponents such as Miguel Cotto and Ricky Hatton, when Arum was only willing to guarantee $7 million.

Arum said Mayweather also asked for $20 million to fight De La Hoya, a fight Arum said he wasn't interested in participating in.

"That's not in the cards," Arum said. "He wants $20 million for the De La Hoya fight? It's not there. Sometimes, my man, you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. We'll talk about things down the road."

Arum said he was simply not interested in participating in a De La Hoya-Mayweather fight, but not because of his distaste for De La Hoya.

"I don't want to, because if I did that fight, I would be working for such a small percentage, it's not worth it," he said.

http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382

Mayweather went on to make 8 million vs Baldomir, 25 million Vs Oscar, and 20 Mil vs Hatton. He made this because he was able to negotiate a better deal.. And as Bob says he doesnt work for pennies.^^^^

Mayweather VS Baldomir (instead of Margarito and the contract ext. with Bob)
Ppv was reported at 325 k. You can find a link if you try, here.

Arum says Floyd didnt make 8 million vs Baldomir(Dan Goosen)... Lets see

325k ppv x $50 = 16.2 mil+. Live gate 1 million= 16.3 million
Cable company takes 30% of 16.3. = 4.9mil
HBO take roughly 10%= 1.6 mil
4.9 + 1.6 = 6.5 million.
Revenue minus cable and premium channel fee cost.
16.3 million - 6.5 million = 9.8 million for fighters.
Fighter purses. 80/20 split.
Baldomir makes 1.6 million + Floyd 8 million = 9.6 million total

So in our estimation we are off 200k. But since we don't have the exact figures such as hd ppv vs standard that's reasonable. Also don't have exact gate or manager cost, promotional cost, event venue or stage renting, licensing etc.

This what money looks like when you escape the endless cycle of futures contracts. Especially when Mayweather vs Judah (370k ppv)and Gatti (340k ppv) did comparable numbers but Mayweather got paid a whole lot less.
_________________________

bob arum said he never talked directly to floyd during pac negotiations.. floyd talked to Lebouf his step son whom has a good relationship with floyd



Dana on how easy it was to hash deal with floyd



Bob Arum hasnt bashed Golovkin yet because he hopes to face him agasinst Ramirez @168. If Golvkin doesnt take the fight, hell be next on Arums **** list of cautious fighters.


“The fight Gilberto wants, assuming he’s successful in this [April 22 fight], is against Triple-G,” Arum said during the conference call. “And I would agree to fight that fight winner-take-all. I think Ramirez destroys Golovkin the same way that he destroyed Arthur Abraham.”
http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-rami...ke-all--115171

"I really believe that as you said, they have trained together and when fighters train together - even though training is not the same as the fight - pretty well they figure the other guy out and he is very confident on how well he'll do against Golovkin," Arum told BoxingScene.com.
http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-rami...lovkin--106041

ALL OF THIS IS UNMISTAKEABLE PROOF..

Arums fighers fight each other because hes garaunteed to profit. Not because other fighters are scared..

"I don't want to, because if I did that fight, I would be working for such a small percentage, it's not worth it," BOB ARUM on why he didnt want to help Mayweather fight Oscar

http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382


If you got a good interview of Bob being a Scumbag... Post it....

[daggum]

i like how you arbitrarily started counting pacs fights starting with the cotto fight. did pac join top rank before that fight or something? oh hatton and hoya were before that. top rank stal***** for sure...

yes most of the fights are in house. that is how both the major american powers top rank and pbc(previously golden boy) operate. for example 10 of floyds last 13 fights(before conor debacle) were against golden boy fighters(then pbc after pbc took all their fighters) so im not sure why you are focusing on top rank. thurmans last 4 have been against pbc. you can find the same trend for probably all the name fighters on both rosters.

im not sure why its only one sides fault. pbc had a good one year run but they squanered all their money and now they are hurting. is it better to have more fighters but no money therefore no fights for them or is it better to have a smaller stable that gets fights but the downside being less options? seems like both options suck. boxing sucks if you havent noticed!

[Boxing42]

GREAT post

[whoelsebutjames]

i like how you arbitrarily started counting pacs fights starting with the cotto fight. did pac join top rank before that fight or something? oh hatton and hoya were before that. top rank stal***** for sure...

yes most of the fights are in house. that is how both the major american powers top rank and pbc(previously golden boy) operate. for example 10 of floyds last 13 fights(before conor debacle) were against golden boy fighters(then pbc after pbc took all their fighters) so im not sure why you are focusing on top rank. thurmans last 4 have been against pbc. you can find the same trend for probably all the name fighters on both rosters.

im not sure why its only one sides fault. pbc had a good one year run but they squanered all their money and now they are hurting. is it better to have more fighters but no money therefore no fights for them or is it better to have a smaller stable that gets fights but the downside being less options? seems like both options suck. boxing sucks if you havent noticed!

That's a fair point about Pacquiao, I arbitrarily used the date. This wasn't a Pacquiao diss as I don't beleive Pacquiao controls his marchmatking. Pacquiao just needs the money to fund his causes in the phillipines- hence why he's always under multiple contract extentions with Arum, rather than negotiate himself better terms. Just like when he tried to sign to delhloya for 300k turned around and signed to Bob for 500k.

This post is about Arum. Arum constantly shreds and slanders every fighter that doesn't belong him. Arums fighters don't ussually fight dangerous opponents themselves--but he give them the reputation of dangerous in order to manuever himself into more money via public opinion.

He uses the excuse other fighters want too much money so that he can duck fighters who aren't willing to be fleeced in the negotiations-- while calling everybody a duck.

When a fight is proposed with any non top rank fighter-- Arum says the same thing. Couldn't do it --THEY WANT MILLIONS.

When Arum starts slandering a fighter for some reason it sticks. The media runs with whatever label he gives them.

[Lester Tutor]

When Arum starts slandering a fighter for some reason it sticks. The media runs with whatever label he gives them.

This is 100% correct, and casuals buy into it. Find any Arum video online where he patronized the value Of Rigondeaux, it's almost the same exact narrative as for Floyd, that "nobody wants to watch great defensive fighter... it's boring... and makes for stinking PPVs..." etc...

Right...

Then NOW look at the Rigo vs Loma hype currently brewing, NOW Arum is so ecstatic to be making this fight. That he is getting "old" and he wants 2 Two-Time Gold medalists under Top Rank history's prestige... duh..

At 130lb Arum seems to be more at peace...

[Eff Pandas]

Nice post. Boxing will be better off the day after Arum dies is the sad truth of Arum's existence.

[Ray*]

Very very good thread/post, you seem to have done your homework with videos/interviews to support it, and when you have been challenged, you admit something was left out but not intentionally. I still need to go through this thread properly but green K for genuine effort.

[whoelsebutjames]

This is 100% correct, and casuals buy into it. Find any Arum video online where he patronized the value Of Rigondeaux, it's almost the same exact narrative as for Floyd, that "nobody wants to watch great defensive fighter... it's boring... and makes for stinking PPVs..." etc...

Right...

Then NOW look at the Rigo vs Loma hype currently brewing, NOW Arum is so ecstatic to be making this fight. That he is getting "old" and he wants 2 Two-Time Gold medalists under Top Rank history's prestige... duh..

At 130lb Arum seems to be more at peace...

Arum is so unbiquitous with boxing that the hyperbole we hear is never even attributed him. The boxing scribes mimic his opinion and repeat them verbatim with out ever acknowledging the source.

Arum easily makes fights with other promoters anytime his fighter is clearly the A Side. Such as Terrence Crawford career. Terrence fought Molina semi-recently who is managed by Haymon. When negotiations are in his favor the fights get made expeditiously.



Arum has already started to criticize Thurman and Danny Garcia. In the video I posted in the an initial post.
As khan said in the other video I posted he thought the fight with Pacquiao was dons and Arum changed directions without notice. So we already know, now that Terrence is at 147 who he will be targeting- Khan, Garcia, Thurman. I think the Khan thing is important because it was an easy rivalry to sell. Khan ran his mouth too much about roach's gym and deserved that beating.

The Khan fight is a no brainer but if Haymon fighters --whom are used to getting paid well- don't want to get bullied at the negotiation table he will be calling them ducks. That's how his game works.

Arum is easily able to manipulate public opinion through his influence and slander to get things his way. When he can't get favorable terms we get fights like PAC Vs Rios, PAC vs Clottey, PAC vs Algeri, Loma vs Sosa, Loma Vs Marriaga. He's litterally making tomato cans look like viable opponents because everybody else is "scared or wants too much money." I think he's the one who wants too much money.

Garcia calls out Loma and instead of giving a reasonable explanation such as-- why would Loma move up now-- or Loma needs a few more fights to grow into weight. It's Mikey wants millions. Broner wants millions. But we all know where the Mikey's a duck slander started right?
Lomanchenko 750k vs Marriaga 50k 94/06 split
Lomachenko 1 mil vs Walters 300k 70/30 Link here


And these are all his fighters lol. imagine what he's trying to do to the competion. hmmm.. but what about this http://www.boxingscene.com/lomachenk...g-more--102851

Hell, Roman got a better deal.
Lomanchenko 850k vs Martinez (reported)425-550k 60/40

To put this in perspective. Salido Vs Vargas 950k viewership. Loma vs Marriaga 720k viewership, Loma vs Sosa 900k viewership. Loma vs Walters 760k viewership. Lomanchenko vs Martinez 580k viewership

There's no doubt in mind that Pacquiao, Crawford, and Loma will fight anybody you put in front of them.

[whoelsebutjames]

Very very good thread/post, you seem to have done your homework with videos/interviews to support it, and when you have been challenged, you admit something was left out but not intentionally. I still need to go through this thread properly but green K for genuine effort.

Some dude dehydrator hit me with like negative 1000 rep. Lol. But thanks. I'm impartial by nature. I have my favorites like anyone but I consider my self open to any reasonable conversation. I've been watching the situation for awhile and making mental notes before rushing to judgement. I don't want to be locked in an echo chamber. But I appreciated the feedback.

Pacquiao signed with Arum in 2006 for the guy that asked.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/sport...op-rank/story/

I also think it's interesting that Marquez "had" to sign with Toprank to get Pacquiao iii fight.

http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=6426302

After hearing about the Mikey Garcia situation and others similar about contract extension for top fights. It all seems more than plausible.

[GhostofDempsey]

Please break down what Haymon, GBP, Main Events, Mayweather, and ROC Nation have done for the sport in the last decade. PBC gave us one mismatch after another while losing $500M. It's only been in the last year that they have been forced to put on more competitive fights because they can no longer sell garbage fights to the network or the public.

I'm not a fan of any promoter, but Arum isn't guilty of anything that other promoters aren't guilty of.