Do you devalue Craw's accomplishment because of weak opposition?

[extracurRICular]

Yeah, I do. The 140 division is realllly weak. NSB has this tendency to group people into categories and pretend that they're all the same. Not all 'bums' are equal, or close to equal, not all 'top3' fighters are equal, not all 'contenders' are equal. The 140 lb division is really, really bad. Most fans will just say "well whatever SMW and HW are bad too, so far?", and that's just laughable. 95% of people on NSB, that is non casuals, wouldn't be able to name 5 fighters who fight at 140.

I have him in top5 P4P because he passes the eye test, as well as handily defeating all of the fighters put in front of him. If it was just resume, he wouldn't make top15.

[nacho daddy]

Compared to other fighters it is and any rational person would have Hagler rated higher. Hagler simply has the better resume.

yes against LW's WW's and JM's

[chrisJS]

the toughest dude at 140 was postol who best win is lucas who lost all his big fights.

That's not exactly true. Mattheyse crushed Peterson and Soto and also beat Provodnikov. Lost controversial decisions to Alexander and Judah before that.

[GhostofDempsey]

I don't hold it against him personally because I believe he would have fought anyone if there was tougher competition. While it is true he didn't have to walk through fire to unify the division, I respect him for hanging around to unify and take a stand that belts do in fact matter.

Many champions have beaten easy opponents on their way to title victories...Mayweather, Pac, Ward, Hopkins, Malignaggi, GGG, have all lifted some or all of their titles from less than stellar opposition. Bud is still young enough to jump to 147 and really test himself. Time will tell if he exposes himself to bigger challenges or looks for the easy path to glory.

[extracurRICular]

That's not exactly true. Mattheyse crushed Peterson and Soto and also beat Provodnikov. Lost controversial decisions to Alexander and Judah before that.

[IMG]https://media.*****.com/media/yyXR52RMDmlvG/*****.gif[/IMG]

[soul_survivor]

Crawford's best wins are Burns, Gamboa and Indongo. Now, let's see what that actually means.

At the time of asking, TC beat Burns when the latter was arguably a top 2, at the very least, top 3 135 pounder. TC can only beat the best available opposition. He also got a win over Beltran who many thought had beaten burns. That is effectively beating the top 2 guys in the division at the time.

His win over Gamboa was one in which he faced a guy who had recently been regarded as p4p and showed his skill and talent early on. TCs size eventually told. Still a good, entertaining win where TC looked to dominate at times.

Neither win solidified TC as a top 3 p4p guy but he certainly warranted a discussion in the top 10.

Now, The Indongo win is the single most impressive. The guy held two belts, had just beaten good opposition in back to back fights and looked a milion bucks doing it.

TC annihilated him. He took the best available opposition and made a mockery of it. How can one argue with that? It's like idiots arguing about wlad yet the guy beat all the best heavyweights of his time bar 2. That factors into all time discussions but in terms of the last few years, no one was a better hw.

No one is saying TC is an atg yet, no one is saying he is the best 140 pounder, his class wasnt as good as the class of Khan and Bradley but TC made do with the best he could. His true legacy will be set against bigger guys at 147. I don't particularly rate Thurman and Porter but they are the best available opposition. Spence may be the strongest guy in the division. A win over guys like that, especially if he looks good doing it, sets his stall out.

So whats the problem?

[Almighty Sosa]

There has been plenty of divisions that are weak or dropped in quality in the last ten years and still bud is only one to be undisputed. So i think no matter his opposition, he should get props for this achievement.

[extracurRICular]

Crawford's best wins are Burns, Gamboa and Indongo. Now, let's see what that actually means.

At the time of asking, TC beat Burns when the latter was arguably a top 2, at the very least, top 3 135 pounder. TC can only beat the best available opposition. He also got a win over Beltran who many thought had beaten burns. That is effectively beating the top 2 guys in the division at the time.

His win over Gamboa was one in which he faced a guy who had recently been regarded as p4p and showed his skill and talent early on. TCs size eventually told. Still a good, entertaining win where TC looked to dominate at times.

Neither win solidified TC as a top 3 p4p guy but he certainly warranted a discussion in the top 10.

Now, The Indongo win is the single most impressive. The guy held two belts, had just beaten good opposition in back to back fights and looked a milion bucks doing it.

TC annihilated him. He took the best available opposition and made a mockery of it. How can one argue with that? It's like idiots arguing about wlad yet the guy beat all the best heavyweights of his time bar 2. That factors into all time discussions but in terms of the last few years, no one was a better hw.

No one is saying TC is an atg yet, no one is saying he is the best 140 pounder, his class wasnt as good as the class of Khan and Bradley but TC made do with the best he could. His true legacy will be set against bigger guys at 147. I don't particularly rate Thurman and Porter but they are the best available opposition. Spence may be the strongest guy in the division. A win over guys like that, especially if he looks good doing it, sets his stall out.

So whats the problem?

The greenesssssssssssssss