Why Ward/Mayweather R Successful. Set Low Expectations...

[Metho_4u]

I'm not going to point by point about everything you said but the one thing that sticks out is you said Ward doesn't win by a big enough points to satisfy your criteria for good boxers. Yet you're satisfied with Golovkin eeking out a victory because Jacobs didn't do enough to win. That argument is always suspect because if we're going by your criteria Jacobs had to win by a bigger margin to get a legit victory. I whole heartedly disagree that Ward only wins by cheating but that's an opinion a lot of the people that don't like Ward seem to fall back on. My point about Lomachenko is against lesser opponents he looks spectacular but in his second fight against a more accomplished fighter he wasn't able to win or win by a wide margin. His camp put him in against Salido so he should have been ready. No excuses. On this site we can only go off assumptions because I have no idea who you are but your argument seemed parsed to rate some boxers over others so my assumption is it has to be more than boxing why you don't like Ward or Mayweather.

The very sad aspect of this sport is that people attempt to hide their internal racist views, by the fighters they choose to like, or not like. I've been lucky to get beyond all that crap...floyd was a **** talker, and maybe a ****ty human being out of the ring, but even if he was... that's not a reason to not appreciate a fighters skill. Ward? I've never seen a racist statement, or one I felt was arrogant, but the fact that he happened to have close fight with a white guy, there was this sudden outcry of robbery, oddly enough from ALLLLLLL the same posters who have *****ed about him in the past after he b1tched golovkin. I say all this and I'm white! I just feel like this is total bull****. People who support golovkin? Golovkins not white, he's half Korean...wtf is the difference from Ward being half black with a white father? I really don't get it. The hypocrisy and ignorance reaches new levels all the time here. Make me a mod...ill put an end to this racist **** here.

[Metho_4u]

This is true. When ggg was constantly landing jabs on jacobs the commentators and many fans hardly mentioned how many times the jab was landing each round. When mayweather lands one pot shot in the round they get up off their seats and yell "What a punch by money may."

You know why? Because Floyd is, was, and will ALWAYS be more impressive than anything golovkin is able to do. HBO has ****** plenty of golovkin d1ck in their broadcasts

[Bjl12]

HeadShots bonafide AUTISM

[Metho_4u]

HeadShots bonafide AUTISM

Dude takes cumshots...not headshots

[nauti4life85]

hell where is my damn check then?

Just like with politics in the boxing community bro, certain people have to put a little more effort in to their body of work. If you know what i mean...

[Mr Objecitivity]

Look, twice you have addressed my posts, however you're making a mistake of a casual fan, you CANNOT go by physical condition of each guy after a fight. Cotto always looks like he's worse than he is because of his skin type, where Manny doesn't show damage, a fighter who's dark, or (black) doesn't typically show bruising because of skin color and type. Some skin is tougher, thicker, while others are thin, cut easily, etc. It's very ****** to go by that.

Would you like a list of how many guys have gotten broken eye sockets? Jaws, etc? There's a whole lot, so big, bad gaylovekin isn't the first.

If you honestly think goloofkin looked good in beating brook, then not only are you wrong, but you missed a lot of small things that exposed him. Jacobs put the nail in the coffin. The only thing that even kept golovkin up in the brook fight was his size, his ****ing feet came off the floor...or did you miss that? Is that what you call a masterful performance? Meanwhile, Spence comes along and manages to fracture the other eye socket...so what does that make him?

I just cannot believe ANYONE who follows this sport with even a HINT of boxing knowledge believes such hype. Golovkin is NOT a great fighter, he's simply another good fighter with power. Beating Alvarez (which I don't believe he will) does little imo, because yet again we have a career MW that's fighting a guy who's still been able to make 154 lbs. Golovkins last loss came from Andre Dirrell, which he won later, both close decisions, but I would call dirrell a B level fighter at any point in his career. And p4p is mythical, but be honest...put Golovkin in with ANY top p4p fighter and do you think he beats any of them? Do you think he wouldn't get countered to death by Rigondeaux? How about lomachenko? Could he handle that level of speed, accuracy and high punch output when he's not a counterpuncher by nature? Ward? He had his opportunity with him, but wards just too clever and inside golovkin would get eaten up. Wouldn't beat Spence. Won't move in weight, has never showed interest except for Floyd of course which makes him a major hypocrite, but whatever.

People need to face facts, this guy was supposed to be the next golden boy for HBO, but it completely backfired, he can't sell a ppv.

you CANNOT go by physical condition of each guy after a fight.

Yes you can, because it represents damage which should be caused by EFFECTIVE PUNCHING and the boxer who inflicted greater amount of damage upon his opponent was the more effective puncher, thus deserves to win.

Cotto always looks like he's worse than he is because of his skin type, where Manny doesn't show damage, a fighter who's dark, or (black) doesn't typically show bruising because of skin color and type. Some skin is tougher, thicker, while others are thin, cut easily, etc. It's very ****** to go by that.

That's no excuse! If a boxer is more difficult to damage for whatever reason (tougher skin and so forth), then that boxer's opponent has to put more effort into his punches in order to inflict the damage. That is, throwing punches with more force / power. You're not going to convince me that when two boxers are in the same weight division fighting each other, that one boxer will not have the POTENTIAL punching power to inflict such a level of damage. If they fail to cause sufficient damage or more damage than their opponent, then it will most likely be due to them lacking the offensive skills (like how Andre Ward generally lacks) or because they are too scared or are unwilling to take risks to throw effective punches with sufficient power to inflict such a level of damage. It won't be because their opponent is totally immune to any physical damage, even if they absorb the most powerful punches.

In the end, boxers are humans. As such, when two boxers are fighting against each other in the same weight class, both are prone / susceptible to damage from punches.

Would you like a list of how many guys have gotten broken eye sockets? Jaws, etc? There's a whole lot, so big, bad gaylovekin isn't the first.

Well I'd like to know how many boxers broke Kell Brook's eye socket because the last time I checked, it was GGG who did it first and nearly permanently damaged his skull, to the point where he almost took Kell Brook out of boxing permanently.

Why couldn't Andre Ward (someone who is claimed to be a better boxer than GGG by many) inflict a similar level of damage to Alexander Brand (who is a worse / lower caliber of opposition than Kell Brook)?

Why couldn't Canelo Alvarez (another boxer who is claimed by many to be a better boxer than GGG) inflict a similar level of damage to Miguel Cotto (who was a worse boxer than Kell Brook at that point in his career when he fought Canelo Alvarez)?

I'll explain why! It's because GGG is actually more skillled than those boxers. GGG is also a lot more special than those boxers. GGG can do things that those boxers wish they could also do.

If you honestly think goloofkin looked good in beating brook, then not only are you wrong, but you missed a lot of small things that exposed him.

Define 'exposed' as it is a very vague term.

If you're gonna claim Kell Brook 'exposed' GGG, then I would likewise argue that Miguel Cotto 'exposed' Canelo Alvarez even more and Alexander Brand 'exposed' Andre Ward even more if applying similar standards.

Jacobs put the nail in the coffin.

Jacobs was almost close to collapsing after his fight against GGG with his face looking like a bloody / swollen / bruised mess. So he didn't put anything in the coffin, expect exposing the fact that if a boxer is much bigger and comes to mainly survive against GGG, they'll be able to but whilst simultaneously taking significant physical damage in the process.

The only thing that even kept golovkin up in the brook fight was his size, his ****ing feet came off the floor...or did you miss that?

Not an acceptable excuse. You do realize that Kell Brook was ACTUALLY 2 pounds heavier than GGG on fight night? You do realize that GGG was lighter than Kell Brook on fight? In other words, Kell Brook and GGG are roughly the same size without either draining their body to make weight.

So it makes no sense to claim GGG's weight helped him stay up after taking Kell Brook's hardest punches when GGG was lighter than Kell Brook and when GGG, despite being outweighed by an even greater margin by Daniel Jacobs, also managed to stay up after Jacobs landed his hardest punches.

If you're being objective, you just have to admit GGG is just that tough with a very high punch resistance.

Is that what you call a masterful performance?

Yes, because boxing is about inflicting damage and damaging an opponent to the point where they are nearly permanently taken out of boxing is 'masterful'.

Meanwhile, Spence comes along and manages to fracture the other eye socket...so what does that make him?

He did that after GGG already made Kell Brook's entire skull (not just the eye socket) weakened. That's equivalent to a little kid killing a soldier with a punch to the heart after the solider was already shot to the heart by a gun prior. In other words, the child deserves very little credit because the sufficient damage was already done by the gun.

So to answer your question, it makes Errol Spence Jr similar to that child in that analogy.

Golovkin is NOT a great fighter, he's simply another good fighter with power.

Define 'great'. To me, being great means doing special things and as such, GGG is great by my definition.

Beating Alvarez (which I don't believe he will) does little imo, because yet again we have a career MW that's fighting a guy who's still been able to make 154 lbs.

That's not GGG's problem. Canelo Alvarez is ranked as a middleweight champion regardless. Also, GGG has also beaten many similar sized / heavier than self opponents, more than Canelo Alvarez. So are we just going to ignore them and nitpick only the lighter opponents he has beaten?

And p4p is mythical, but be honest...put Golovkin in with ANY top p4p fighter and do you think he beats any of them? Do you think he wouldn't get countered to death by Rigondeaux? How about lomachenko? Could he handle that level of speed, accuracy and high punch output when he's not a counterpuncher by nature? Ward? He had his opportunity with him, but wards just too clever and inside golovkin would get eaten up. Wouldn't beat Spence. Won't move in weight, has never showed interest except for Floyd of course which makes him a major hypocrite, but whatever.

All of that is pure speculation. I rank GGG as a middleweight and not P4P. I really don't care much, if at all about P4P rankings because it's mainly speculation.

However, if the likes of Spence could really beat GGG, why are they still fighting in their own divisions instead of immediately moving up to GGG's 160 pound division and ending the supposed hype job by beating him? Why was Errol Spence Jr so keen on fighting GGG's leftover Kell Brook instead of fighting the man himself and beating him, which was GGG?

I'll explain why. It's most likely because those supposed boxers you're so confident that they'll beat GGG aren't as confident in themselves.

As for Andre Ward, let the fight happen in a neutral country (outside USA, Kazakhstan or Russia) with neutral officials, referee and judges and then we'll see what happens in a fair bout.

GGG has no obligations to fight Andre Ward in USA when he has almost always fought in a foreign location and when he already has most of the disadvantages (such as weight).

If Andre Ward refuses to fight GGG in a neutral location, then it's Ward who should be viewed as the boxer that is avoiding the bout.

[Mr Objecitivity]

I'm not going to point by point about everything you said but the one thing that sticks out is you said Ward doesn't win by a big enough points to satisfy your criteria for good boxers. Yet you're satisfied with Golovkin eeking out a victory because Jacobs didn't do enough to win. That argument is always suspect because if we're going by your criteria Jacobs had to win by a bigger margin to get a legit victory. I whole heartedly disagree that Ward only wins by cheating but that's an opinion a lot of the people that don't like Ward seem to fall back on. My point about Lomachenko is against lesser opponents he looks spectacular but in his second fight against a more accomplished fighter he wasn't able to win or win by a wide margin. His camp put him in against Salido so he should have been ready. No excuses. On this site we can only go off assumptions because I have no idea who you are but your argument seemed parsed to rate some boxers over others so my assumption is it has to be more than boxing why you don't like Ward or Mayweather.

Yet you're satisfied with Golovkin eeking out a victory because Jacobs didn't do enough to win.

GGG's margin of victory against Daniel Jacobs was an exception, not the norm. GGG normally wins most of his fights against most types of opposition by a far bigger margin than Andre Ward does.

That argument is always suspect because if we're going by your criteria Jacobs had to win by a bigger margin to get a legit victory.

No, that's not my criteria. For Daniel Jacobs to have won, he should've done more of that was required than GGG (land more effective punches) which he of course didn't. Thus, he doesn't deserve to win.

I whole heartedly disagree that Ward only wins by cheating but that's an opinion a lot of the people that don't like Ward seem to fall back on.

You can disagree all you like but it's a fact, not an opinion.

Fact is, against all top caliber opposition, Andre Ward had to ALWAYS cheat in one way or another to win. Headbutts, excessive clinching, elbow attacks and so forth are consistent illegal moves which Andre Ward has used against pretty much all of the top level of opposition he has fought and beaten.

My point about Lomachenko is against lesser opponents he looks spectacular but in his second fight against a more accomplished fighter he wasn't able to win or win by a wide margin.

Gary Russel Jr and Nicholas Walters are anything but 'lesser opponents' for a guy who didn't even have 10 fights yet.

Both Gary Russel Jr and Nicholas Walters are actually a better level of opposition than Orlando Salido. The fact that he has beaten them, makes his loss to Orlando Salido less relevant and it'll continue to become less and less relevant as he continues to beat more opponents that are better.

Also, Lomachenko failed to win by a big margin against Salido because he cheated and should've been disqualified. That's a fact!

His camp put him in against Salido so he should have been ready. No excuses.

It still doesn't change the fact that he fought Salido in only his second fight (which is not even close to equivalent to anything any other top boxer has done at a much later stage of their careers).

Also, like already stated, that was a rare exception and not the norm for Vasyl Lomachenko. Lomachenko normally wins by a much bigger margin than Andre Ward normally does.

On this site we can only go off assumptions because I have no idea who you are but your argument seemed parsed to rate some boxers over others so my assumption is it has to be more than boxing why you don't like Ward or Mayweather.

Well, your assumption is wrong because I rank Floyd Mayweather Jr as the greatest top 5 boxer in history from featherweight to welterweight.

On the other hand, I don't rank Andre Ward anywhere near that level because he is an evident cheater who hasn't won a single fight against a top opponent without the ridiculous amount of cheating that he gets away with.

The likes of Guillermo Rigondeaux, Vasyl Lomachenko, pretty boy Floyd Mayweather Jr, GGG and even Wladimir Klitschko have destroyed and beat many top tier opposition using clean boxing without needing to cheat. This is something Andre Ward has never done.

Thus, me disliking Ward is exclusively to do with boxing which is caused by his consistent use of illegal moves.

[HarvardBlue]

GGG's margin of victory against Daniel Jacobs was an exception, not the norm. GGG normally wins most of his fights against most types of opposition by a far bigger margin than Andre Ward does.



No, that's not my criteria. For Daniel Jacobs to have won, he should've done more of that was required than GGG (land more effective punches) which he of course didn't. Thus, he doesn't deserve to win.



You can disagree all you like but it's a fact, not an opinion.

Fact is, against all top caliber opposition, Andre Ward had to ALWAYS cheat in one way or another to win. Headbutts, excessive clinching, elbow attacks and so forth are consistent illegal moves which Andre Ward has used against pretty much all of the top level of opposition he has fought and beaten.



Gary Russel Jr and Nicholas Walters are anything but 'lesser opponents' for a guy who didn't even have 10 fights yet.

Both Gary Russel Jr and Nicholas Walters are actually a better level of opposition than Orlando Salido. The fact that he has beaten them, makes his loss to Orlando Salido less relevant and it'll continue to become less and less relevant as he continues to beat more opponents that are better.

Also, Lomachenko failed to win by a big margin against Salido because he cheated and should've been disqualified. That's a fact!



It still doesn't change the fact that he fought Salido in only his second fight (which is not even close to equivalent to anything any other top boxer has done at a much later stage of their careers).

Also, like already stated, that was a rare exception and not the norm for Vasyl Lomachenko. Lomachenko normally wins by a much bigger margin than Andre Ward normally does.



Well, your assumption is wrong because I rank Floyd Mayweather Jr as the greatest top 5 boxer in history from featherweight to welterweight.

On the other hand, I don't rank Andre Ward anywhere near that level because he is an evident cheater who hasn't won a single fight against a top opponent without the ridiculous amount of cheating that he gets away with.

The likes of Guillermo Rigondeaux, Vasyl Lomachenko, pretty boy Floyd Mayweather Jr, GGG and even Wladimir Klitschko have destroyed and beat many top tier opposition using clean boxing without needing to cheat. This is something Andre Ward has never done.

Thus, me disliking Ward is exclusively to do with boxing which is caused by his consistent use of illegal moves.

When is it a requirement to win a match by a wide margin? I still don't get that argument. I'll give you Russell Jr but Walters quit in the ring. He wasn't there to win. How is calling Ward a cheater a fact when he has never disqualified for cheating, he hasn't been sanctioned for cheating. He might have lost a point here or there but we can compile a long list of fighters that lost a point in a fight. I stopped reading when you added Klitschko. Surely you can't be talking about his last 3 or 4 years. If your argument is that constantly hugging an opponent is clean boxing you just made my point.

[Metho_4u]

Yes you can, because it represents damage which should be caused by EFFECTIVE PUNCHING and the boxer who inflicted greater amount of damage upon his opponent was the more effective puncher, thus deserves to win.



That's no excuse! If a boxer is more difficult to damage for whatever reason (tougher skin and so forth), then that boxer's opponent has to put more effort into his punches in order to inflict the damage. That is, throwing punches with more force / power. You're not going to convince me that when two boxers are in the same weight division fighting each other, that one boxer will not have the POTENTIAL punching power to inflict such a level of damage. If they fail to cause sufficient damage or more damage than their opponent, then it will most likely be due to them lacking the offensive skills (like how Andre Ward generally lacks) or because they are too scared or are unwilling to take risks to throw effective punches with sufficient power to inflict such a level of damage. It won't be because their opponent is totally immune to any physical damage, even if they absorb the most powerful punches.

In the end, boxers are humans. As such, when two boxers are fighting against each other in the same weight class, both are prone / susceptible to damage from punches.



Well I'd like to know how many boxers broke Kell Brook's eye socket because the last time I checked, it was GGG who did it first and nearly permanently damaged his skull, to the point where he almost took Kell Brook out of boxing permanently.

Why couldn't Andre Ward (someone who is claimed to be a better boxer than GGG by many) inflict a similar level of damage to Alexander Brand (who is a worse / lower caliber of opposition than Kell Brook)?

Why couldn't Canelo Alvarez (another boxer who is claimed by many to be a better boxer than GGG) inflict a similar level of damage to Miguel Cotto (who was a worse boxer than Kell Brook at that point in his career when he fought Canelo Alvarez)?

I'll explain why! It's because GGG is actually more skillled than those boxers. GGG is also a lot more special than those boxers. GGG can do things that those boxers wish they could also do.



Define 'exposed' as it is a very vague term.

If you're gonna claim Kell Brook 'exposed' GGG, then I would likewise argue that Miguel Cotto 'exposed' Canelo Alvarez even more and Alexander Brand 'exposed' Andre Ward even more if applying similar standards.



Jacobs was almost close to collapsing after his fight against GGG with his face looking like a bloody / swollen / bruised mess. So he didn't put anything in the coffin, expect exposing the fact that if a boxer is much bigger and comes to mainly survive against GGG, they'll be able to but whilst simultaneously taking significant physical damage in the process.



Not an acceptable excuse. You do realize that Kell Brook was ACTUALLY 2 pounds heavier than GGG on fight night? You do realize that GGG was lighter than Kell Brook on fight? In other words, Kell Brook and GGG are roughly the same size without either draining their body to make weight.

So it makes no sense to claim GGG's weight helped him stay up after taking Kell Brook's hardest punches when GGG was lighter than Kell Brook and when GGG, despite being outweighed by an even greater margin by Daniel Jacobs, also managed to stay up after Jacobs landed his hardest punches.

If you're being objective, you just have to admit GGG is just that tough with a very high punch resistance.



Yes, because boxing is about inflicting damage and damaging an opponent to the point where they are nearly permanently taken out of boxing is 'masterful'.



He did that after GGG already made Kell Brook's entire skull (not just the eye socket) weakened. That's equivalent to a little kid killing a soldier with a punch to the heart after the solider was already shot to the heart by a gun prior. In other words, the child deserves very little credit because the sufficient damage was already done by the gun.

So to answer your question, it makes Errol Spence Jr similar to that child in that analogy.



Define 'great'. To me, being great means doing special things and as such, GGG is great by my definition.



That's not GGG's problem. Canelo Alvarez is ranked as a middleweight champion regardless. Also, GGG has also beaten many similar sized / heavier than self opponents, more than Canelo Alvarez. So are we just going to ignore them and nitpick only the lighter opponents he has beaten?



All of that is pure speculation. I rank GGG as a middleweight and not P4P. I really don't care much, if at all about P4P rankings because it's mainly speculation.

However, if the likes of Spence could really beat GGG, why are they still fighting in their own divisions instead of immediately moving up to GGG's 160 pound division and ending the supposed hype job by beating him? Why was Errol Spence Jr so keen on fighting GGG's leftover Kell Brook instead of fighting the man himself and beating him, which was GGG?

I'll explain why. It's most likely because those supposed boxers you're so confident that they'll beat GGG aren't as confident in themselves.

As for Andre Ward, let the fight happen in a neutral country (outside USA, Kazakhstan or Russia) with neutral officials, referee and judges and then we'll see what happens in a fair bout.

GGG has no obligations to fight Andre Ward in USA when he has almost always fought in a foreign location and when he already has most of the disadvantages (such as weight).

If Andre Ward refuses to fight GGG in a neutral location, then it's Ward who should be viewed as the boxer that is avoiding the bout.

All of this bull**** quoting is seriously giving me a headache. Clean, effective punching damage does NOT = how a fight is scored...the judges look at the fighters, who is landing the better punches that are clean and THAT'S IT!

You wrote all this long, boring **** out to defend golovkin, which is sad, and ultimately is your whole agenda.

Asking a fighter to "try harder" because his opponent doesn't mark up the same? LMAO, that is literally the dumbest ****ing thing I've seen. Not a single person who knows this sport...REALLY knows it will agree with you. By that logic, Ward should be like THE best puncher at lhw because his opponent claimed that he hit like a girl until he got his ass rocked and did the Russian shuffle.

I'm sorry, but all of your logic is completely flawed, and again, the fact that you're saying all this really in defense of golovkin is just laughable.

And LMAO again @ winning by a wide margin!!!...wtf cares? Do football teams need to do the same? I take it back, you're just a flat out idiot.

[Vlad_]

The ****** level is strong on all sides here!