Why Ward/Mayweather R Successful. Set Low Expectations...

[-PBP-]

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[HarvardBlue]

I can't speak in behalf of that user, but from what I know, that individual has shown to like boxers who win by the biggest possible margin (winning a bout as quick as possible whilst inflicting maximum damage upon the opponent and whilst receiving minimum damage from the opponent). This requires the highest level of skill to accomplish consistently!

Mind you, Manny Pacquiao isn't the best example anymore of such a boxer. However, those other boxers include the likes of Gennady Golovkin, Sergey Kovalev, Guillermo Rigondeaux, Vasyl Lomachenko and etc.

It takes more skill to win by a bigger margin than to win by a smaller margin (taking longer to win a bout whilst inflicting lesser damage upon the opponent).

If you're adding Rigondeaux you might as well add Mayweather and Ward. Kovalev was just beaten by Ward so he's a bad example. Golovkin didn't inflict maximum damage or received minimum damage against Jacobs. He got a favorably nod because of the potential matchup with Canelo. Lomachenko already lost to Salido. If you can appreciate those fighters why is so hard to appreciate Ward and Mayweather? Maybe your reason for not liking them goes beyond boxing.

[Vadrigar.]

No, Ward is the superior fighter.

You're obviously still hurt from that Kovalev loss.
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[Mr Objecitivity]

If you think Ward was not more convincing vs Barrera that goloofkin was vs Jacobs, you have no place here.

Provide an argument, otherwise it's you who doesn't have any place here.

Compare the physical condition / state of Daniel Jacobs after his fight against GGG to the physical condition / state of Sullivan Barrera after his fight against Andre Ward, you'll discover it was Jacobs who was physically FAR MORE damaged than Barrera was.


Jacobs had his face swollen, bloody, bruised up and was almost close to collapsing through exhaustion after his fight against GGG whilst GGG was relatively undamaged.

On the other hand, Barrera was barely damaged after his fight against Ward. If anything, Andre Ward looked physically more damaged than Barrera after the fight despite winning.

So no, based on the criteria I use, Ward didn't beat Barrera more convincingly than GGG beat Daniel Jacobs.

A boxer who wins his fight whilst inflicting more damage upon his opponent and whilst receiving less damage from his opponent will be recognized as someone who won his fight more convincingly than another boxer who inflicted less damage on his opponent and was more damaged himself.

Thus, GGG's performance against Daniel Jacobs > Andre Ward's performance against Sullivan Barrera and Alexander Brand.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Kovalev just got a beat down, goloofkin isn't the same fighter even vs WW brook...a step up in class is all it took for him to look ordinary.the other I'll give you, but rigondeaux has been put down several times, even in winning his fights.

Kovalev just got a beat down

That doesn't disprove any of my point / argument.

goloofkin isn't the same fighter even vs WW brook

What does that even supposed to mean?

a step up in class is all it took for him to look ordinary.

If you're referring to GGG's performance against Kell Brook, then GGG did something nobody else ever did to Kell Brook, which was almost inflict permanent physical damage upon Kell Brook's body (eye socket and skull) and subsequently nearly taking him out of boxing for good. So how an earth can GGG look 'ordinary' when he did something that nobody else did. By definition, that's an 'EXTRAORDINARY' feat.

but rigondeaux has been put down several times, even in winning his fights.

That's true. However, he still barely suffers from any physical damage after his fights are over whilst also inflicting severe damage / pain upon his opponents.

Boxing is about EFFECTIVE punches and EFFECTIVE punches are about inflicting as much damage upon the opponent as possible!

[Mr Objecitivity]

If you're adding Rigondeaux you might as well add Mayweather and Ward. Kovalev was just beaten by Ward so he's a bad example. Golovkin didn't inflict maximum damage or received minimum damage against Jacobs. He got a favorably nod because of the potential matchup with Canelo. Lomachenko already lost to Salido. If you can appreciate those fighters why is so hard to appreciate Ward and Mayweather? Maybe your reason for not liking them goes beyond boxing.

If you're adding Rigondeaux you might as well add Mayweather and Ward.

Young Floyd Mayweather without his hand injuryes? Absolutely! An old Floyd Mayweather with his brittle hands? Not so much!

However, I could never add Andre Ward so far. Even against journeymen, bums, lighter than self opposition and so forth so on, he still fails to win by a big enough margin. With Andre Ward, it's almost exclusively about doing just about enough to win a fight whilst also performing illegal moves.

Unlike those aforementioned boxers, Andre Ward barely hurts his opponents, barely inflicts enough damage on his opponents and simply doesn't win his fights convincingly enough in a consistent basis.

Kovalev was just beaten by Ward so he's a bad example.

That still doesn't disprove my argument / point. Also, we simply can't ignore that Andre Ward had to cheat to win the fight.

Golovkin didn't inflict maximum damage or received minimum damage against Jacobs.

No, but GGG inflicted far greater damage upon Daniel Jacobs than Andre Ward usually does to his opponents. After the fight, Daniel Jacobs was almost close to collapsing through exhaustion and had his face swollen, bloody, bruised up, cut and etc. On the other hand, GGG looked relatively normal with very little damage after the fight.

So GGG still inflicted SIGNIFICANT MORE damage upon Daniel Jacobs, even in a fight that many thought was close.

He got a favorably nod because of the potential matchup with Canelo.

Nope, he got the nod because Daniel Jacobs didn't do what was required to win. Based on the main criteria of boxing (clean and effective punches), GGG CLEARLY won because he landed more of them. The evidence of that is the physical condition of both after the fight was over.

Lomachenko already lost to Salido.

Again, that doesn't disprove my original point / argument. I'm going by CONSISTENCY here. Rare occasions / instances of a feat doesn't outweigh the more numerous and consistent contrary feats.

Lomachenko lost to Salido (in only his second fight whilst Salido cheated and should've been disqualified), but then went on to beat superior opponents like Roman Martinez, Gary Russel Jr and Nicholas Walters, all under 10 fights. Thus, his loss to Salido has now become irrelevant as a result.

If you can appreciate those fighters why is so hard to appreciate Ward and Mayweather?

I actually do appreciate Floyd Mayweather Jr, especially pretty boy Floyd Mayweather, but I could never to this day appreciate Andre Ward.

Andre Ward is a CONSISTENT cheater and a rule breaker. There's no denying that. His boxing skills are overrated and the fact that he has to consistently cheat, actually strengthens that point further.

Maybe your reason for not liking them goes beyond boxing.

No it doesn't. Please avoid making assumptions about me. I like all legal boxing moves. I can't and won't like any boxer who has to cheat and perform illegal moves to win a boxing bout.

[Vadrigar.]

Headshots

He's probably taken one too many or dropped on his head as a child.

OP is sounding punch drunk in his posts.

[HarvardBlue]

Young Floyd Mayweather without his hand injuryes? Absolutely! An old Floyd Mayweather with his brittle hands? Not so much!

However, I could never add Andre Ward so far. Even against journeymen, bums, lighter than self opposition and so forth so on, he still fails to win by a big enough margin. With Andre Ward, it's almost exclusively about doing just about enough to win a fight whilst also performing illegal moves.

Unlike those aforementioned boxers, Andre Ward barely hurts his opponents, barely inflicts enough damage on his opponents and simply doesn't win his fights convincingly enough in a consistent basis.



That still doesn't disprove my argument / point. Also, we simply can't ignore that Andre Ward had to cheat to win the fight.



No, but GGG inflicted far greater damage upon Daniel Jacobs than Andre Ward usually does to his opponents. After the fight, Daniel Jacobs was almost close to collapsing through exhaustion and had his face swollen, bloody, bruised up, cut and etc. On the other hand, GGG looked relatively normal with very little damage after the fight.

So GGG still inflicted SIGNIFICANT MORE damage upon Daniel Jacobs, even in a fight that many thought was close.



Nope, he got the nod because Daniel Jacobs didn't do what was required to win. Based on the main criteria of boxing (clean and effective punches), GGG CLEARLY won because he landed more of them. The evidence of that is the physical condition of both after the fight was over.



Again, that doesn't disprove my original point / argument. I'm going by CONSISTENCY here. Rare occasions / instances of a feat doesn't outweigh the more numerous and consistent contrary feats.

Lomachenko lost to Salido (in only his second fight whilst Salido cheated and should've been disqualified), but then went on to beat superior opponents like Roman Martinez, Gary Russel Jr and Nicholas Walters, all under 10 fights. Thus, his loss to Salido has now become irrelevant as a result.



I actually do appreciate Floyd Mayweather Jr, especially pretty boy Floyd Mayweather, but I could never to this day appreciate Andre Ward.

Andre Ward is a CONSISTENT cheater and a rule breaker. There's no denying that. His boxing skills are overrated and the fact that he has to consistently cheat, actually strengthens that point further.



No it doesn't. Please avoid making assumptions about me. I like all legal boxing moves. I can't and won't like any boxer who has to cheat and perform illegal moves to win a boxing bout.

I'm not going to point by point about everything you said but the one thing that sticks out is you said Ward doesn't win by a big enough points to satisfy your criteria for good boxers. Yet you're satisfied with Golovkin eeking out a victory because Jacobs didn't do enough to win. That argument is always suspect because if we're going by your criteria Jacobs had to win by a bigger margin to get a legit victory. I whole heartedly disagree that Ward only wins by cheating but that's an opinion a lot of the people that don't like Ward seem to fall back on. My point about Lomachenko is against lesser opponents he looks spectacular but in his second fight against a more accomplished fighter he wasn't able to win or win by a wide margin. His camp put him in against Salido so he should have been ready. No excuses. On this site we can only go off assumptions because I have no idea who you are but your argument seemed parsed to rate some boxers over others so my assumption is it has to be more than boxing why you don't like Ward or Mayweather.

[Metho_4u]

That doesn't disprove any of my point / argument.



What does that even supposed to mean?



If you're referring to GGG's performance against Kell Brook, then GGG did something nobody else ever did to Kell Brook, which was almost inflict permanent physical damage upon Kell Brook's body (eye socket and skull) and subsequently nearly taking him out of boxing for good. So how an earth can GGG look 'ordinary' when he did something that nobody else did. By definition, that's an 'EXTRAORDINARY' feat.



That's true. However, he still barely suffers from any physical damage after his fights are over whilst also inflicting severe damage / pain upon his opponents.

Boxing is about EFFECTIVE punches and EFFECTIVE punches are about inflicting as much damage upon the opponent as possible!

Look, twice you have addressed my posts, however you're making a mistake of a casual fan, you CANNOT go by physical condition of each guy after a fight. Cotto always looks like he's worse than he is because of his skin type, where Manny doesn't show damage, a fighter who's dark, or (black) doesn't typically show bruising because of skin color and type. Some skin is tougher, thicker, while others are thin, cut easily, etc. It's very ****** to go by that.

Would you like a list of how many guys have gotten broken eye sockets? Jaws, etc? There's a whole lot, so big, bad gaylovekin isn't the first.

If you honestly think goloofkin looked good in beating brook, then not only are you wrong, but you missed a lot of small things that exposed him. Jacobs put the nail in the coffin. The only thing that even kept golovkin up in the brook fight was his size, his ****ing feet came off the floor...or did you miss that? Is that what you call a masterful performance? Meanwhile, Spence comes along and manages to fracture the other eye socket...so what does that make him?

I just cannot believe ANYONE who follows this sport with even a HINT of boxing knowledge believes such hype. Golovkin is NOT a great fighter, he's simply another good fighter with power. Beating Alvarez (which I don't believe he will) does little imo, because yet again we have a career MW that's fighting a guy who's still been able to make 154 lbs. Golovkins last loss came from Andre Dirrell, which he won later, both close decisions, but I would call dirrell a B level fighter at any point in his career. And p4p is mythical, but be honest...put Golovkin in with ANY top p4p fighter and do you think he beats any of them? Do you think he wouldn't get countered to death by Rigondeaux? How about lomachenko? Could he handle that level of speed, accuracy and high punch output when he's not a counterpuncher by nature? Ward? He had his opportunity with him, but wards just too clever and inside golovkin would get eaten up. Wouldn't beat Spence. Won't move in weight, has never showed interest except for Floyd of course which makes him a major hypocrite, but whatever.

People need to face facts, this guy was supposed to be the next golden boy for HBO, but it completely backfired, he can't sell a ppv.

[satiev1]

This is true. When ggg was constantly landing jabs on jacobs the commentators and many fans hardly mentioned how many times the jab was landing each round. When mayweather lands one pot shot in the round they get up off their seats and yell "What a punch by money may."