Greater fighter: Roy Jones Jr or Floyd Mayweather?

[robertzimmerman]

This whole Collins, Benn and Eubank thing baffles me. No one and I mean no one clamored for these fights at the time. 20+ years later, guys Google some rankings and start throwing the word duck around because they didnt fight.

Sometimes fights just don't happen, not that anyone ducked.

Why didn't Trinidad vs Mosley happen?

Why didn't Lewis fight John Ruiz? Lewis must've ducked him lol

There was a clamour for Roy-Benn in 1995, but it became impossible to make, as Don King and Roy's advisors - The Levin's, had a deep dislike and distrust of each other.

I hear you though, people just throw names around without knowing what was happening at the time.

[robertzimmerman]

It really is.

No pics of Floyd asleep in the ring....at the hands of a journeyman that Sven Ottke whipped..

We've established that.

Again, there's also many other factors to consider.

Also, we have no idea how Floyd would have fared had he have followed a similar timeline.

[Chollo Vista]

That's an important factor to consider along with many others.

I don't think it should.

SRR lost almost 20 fights; that's never docked against him or his legacy.

Ezzard Charles, who's considered the greatest Light Heavyweight of all time had 25 losses. With many losses coming to journeymen; that's never docked against him or his legacy

Mike Tyson got stopped by Kevin McBride; the journeyman of journymen.

Bob Foster not only lost in his prime, but got KO'd 6 times and lost a total of 8 times. That's never docked against him

And rightfully so...

But if we're being honest, RJJ was tested one time in 15 years... And even that one time he was somewhat tested, he was on his way to a stoppage victory over Griffin.

Floyd was outlanded by over 100 punches against Castillo in his prime. Floyd said his greatest challenge in his prime was Emmanuel Augustus who bloodied him up. Chop Chop Corely had Floyd thinking he was in Texas.

Who was Roy's greatest challenge in his prime? No one. I remember Larry Merchant giving a stat of he had Roy winning 90 out of 95 rounds he spectated. Utter domination

[robertzimmerman]

RJJ never learned inside fighting tricks..that proved to be his downfall.

That's why he got stretched....once by Sven Ottke's leftovers.

Roy had great inside fighting abilities. It was his lead attacks and his footwork that he needed to change once he'd lost his speed and reflexes.

Why are you obsessing over Sven Ottke and Glen Johnson?

[Chollo Vista]

There was a clamour for Roy-Benn in 1995, but it became impossible to make, as Don King and Roy's advisors - The Levin's, had a deep dislike and distrust of each other.

I hear you though, people just throw names around without knowing what was happening at the time.

I would like to see this clamour for I don't remember it at all; whatsoever.

Was the fight talked about? Possibly, but I don't even remember hearing about it. It wasn't clamored anything like Floyd vs Pac/Cotto/Marg was.

It wasn't clamored to the point to where anyone, I mean anyone, was saying RJJ was ducking Benn. I know that for a fact.

[-Kev-]

The list you mentioned doesn't add up. You mentioned some guys for Jones, and you didn't mention the equivalents for Floyd.

Jones went from JMW to Heavy while defeating prime Hopkins, Toney, top 10 Light Heavy of all time in Virgil Hill, mulagni, Johnson, Paz, McCallum, Harding, Sosa, Castro, Vaca, Tarver, Woods, Gonzales, Griffin, Ruiz for the HW title, Lacy, Trinidad, etc....

Maywether went from 130 to 154 while defeating prime Corrales, Hernandez, Gatti, Mosley, DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Pac, Marquez, Canelo, Castillo, Maidana, Ortiz.

If you're going to name the guys in bold, and especially in bold red, then you have to mention the following for Mayweather:

Chavez (top 4 130 pounder)
Corley (top 5 140)
Manfredy (#2 130)
Berto (former champ)
Guerrero (top 10 WW)
Baldomir (WW champ)
Judah (#3 147)
Mitchell (they were both top 10 140 pounders and they were eachother's first 147 fight)

[robertzimmerman]

I don't think it should.

SRR lost almost 20 fights; that's never docked against him or his legacy.

Ezzard Charles, who's considered the greatest Light Heavyweight of all time had 25 losses. With many losses coming to journeymen; that's never docked against him or his legacy

Mike Tyson got stopped by Kevin McBride; the journeyman of journymen.

Bob Foster not only lost in his prime, but got KO'd 6 times and lost a total of 8 times. That's never docked against him

And rightfully so...

But if we're being honest, RJJ was tested one time in 15 years... And even that one time he was somewhat tested, he was on his way to a stoppage victory over Griffin.

Floyd was outlanded by over 100 punches against Castillo in his prime. Floyd said his greatest challenge in his prime was Emmanuel Augustus who bloodied him up. Chop Chop Corely had him thinking he was in Texas.

Who was Roy's greatest challenge in his prime? No one. I remember Larry Merchant giving a stat of he had Roy winning 90 out of 95 rounds he spectated. Utter domination

I'm with you. But I still think you need to analyse every aspect of a fighter's career before you rank them.

Longevity has to be taken into account. But the problem here, is that there's a few people who only want to focus on that one factor.

[robertzimmerman]

I would like to see this clamour for I don't remember it at all; whatsoever.

Was the fight talked about? Possibly, but I don't even remember hearing about it. It wasn't clamored anything like Floyd vs Pac/Cotto/Marg was.

It wasn't clamored to the point to where anyone, I mean anyone, was saying RJJ was ducking Benn. I know that for a fact.

Not on the scale of Floyd-Manny, no way. But it was after Benn had defeated Gerald and he'd called Roy out. He was serious too. He was a warrior. But what was great, was that he did it in a really respectful manner. He knew that Roy was "The Man" and he had a ton of respect for him. But according to Roy and his handlers, King wanted future options which they weren't prepared to agree to.

https://*************/watch?v=xgcl9qLqX5I

https://*************/watch?v=vLIvbLH1Z94

[Chollo Vista]

The list you mentioned doesn't add up. You mentioned some guys for Jones, and you didn't mention the equivalents for Floyd.



If you're going to name the guys in bold, and especially in bold red, then you have to mention the following for Mayweather:

Chavez (top 4 130 pounder)
Corley (top 5 140)
Manfredy (#2 130)
Berto (former champ)
Guerrero (top 10 WW)
Baldomir (WW champ)
Judah (#3 147)
Mitchell (they were both top 10 140 pounders and they were eachother's first 147 fight)

I've already addressed why I've included guys like lacy and Trinidad.

And if you're going to mention guys like you just did, I have a plethora of names for Roy as well.

Look at the context on why I listed lacy and Trinidad

[Chollo Vista]

Not on the scale of Floyd-Manny, no way. But it was after Benn had defeated Gerald and he'd called Roy out. He was serious too. He was a warrior. But what was great, was that he did it in a really respectful manner. He knew that Roy was "The Man" and he had a ton of respect for him. But according to Roy and his handlers, King wanted future options which they weren't prepared to agree to.

https://*************/watch?v=xgcl9qLqX5I

https://*************/watch?v=vLIvbLH1Z94

So it was Benn saying he wanted to fight Jones. Cool.

But what I'm saying is outside of Benn asking for the fight, the boxing public nor media clamored for that fight. And no one, I repeat, no one ever accused Jones of ducking Benn like some of these guys have accused Roy of doing over 20 years later. And if you listen to how Benn thought of Jones at that time, he'd probably slap the schit out of some if these guys who said Roy ducked him, himself

Hell, Jeff Horn just said he wants to fight Mayweather. If Floyd doesn't fight him we might as well say Floyd ducked him using some guys logic