Greater fighter: Roy Jones Jr or Floyd Mayweather?

[Chollo Vista]

This makes zero sense. Styles make fights. According to your bizarre logic of making excuses for Roy:

Ali never had to fight Frazier. Only Foreman. Since Foreman destroyed Frazier. Ali kayoed Foreman, so Ali will destroy Frazier even more? Except Frazier actually beat a BETTER VERSION of the Ali that Foreman lost to. Yet Foreman destroyed Frazier and lost to Ali.

Jones in all likelyhood would have beaten Benn/Eubank/Dariuz/Mccellan but they all presented aggressive hard punching styles that could have been Jone's biggest issue. A slick fighter like Hopkins or Toney would never have beaten Jones, but a come forward brawler the level of Benn might have landed a Hail Mary on his weak chin.


The single dumbest logic in boxing by noobs is

FIGHTER A BEAT FIGHTER B WHO BEAT FIGHTER C
SO
FIGHTER A BEAT FIGHTER C.

I'm not using boxing math. I'm simply saying accusing Roy of ducking a fighter when in reality, the fighters he fought were higher in competition is crazy.

Let me put it to you like this. Sometimes in boxing, certain fights just don't happen.

Why did Pryor never fight Chavez or Pernell Whitaker?

Why did Lennox Lewis never fight John Ruiz?

Why did Tyson never fight Foreman?

Why did Trinidad never fight Mosley?

Because some fights just never materialize, not because they were ducking. I used Jones opponents at the time as proof that Jones still fought top notch competition and who HBO wanted him to fight.

After Jones fought Frazier, in the post fight interview, HBO/Lampley mentioned 4 guys Jones should fight. Want to know who they were? Johnson, Telesco, Darius and Hopkins who he already beat. Roy fought 3 of the 4 guys and yet guys today come out with fighters that were never seriously considered as opponents back then. I think Steve Collins was talking about coming out of retirement, but couldn't even do that because he got KO'd by Howard Eastman in sparring.

Give me a break.

[Chollo Vista]

A case could also be made that Roy avoided the Steve Collins fight, but Collins had no attributes that could trouble Roy so he should get a pass on that one.

No, it can't stop lying.

Jim Lampley is on record saying Collins turned down a big pay day not to fight Jones.

Collins "tried" to make a comeback on Calzaghe's undercard in a bout where "if he won", he would matchup with Jones in 99. Collins ended up getting sent to the hospital during sparring with Howard Eastman and the thoughts were scrapped.

Now, prior to 1997, show me one interview or mainstream article or anything that said Roy ducked Steve Collins. All the money in the world that you can't.

Stop lying and talking about schit you know nothing about

[JasonBoxing]

I'm not using boxing math. I'm simply saying accusing Roy of ducking a fighter when in reality, the fighters he fought were higher in competition is crazy.

Let me put it to you like this. Sometimes in boxing, certain fights just don't happen.

Why did Pryor never fight Chavez or Pernell Whitaker?

Why did Lennox Lewis never fight John Ruiz?

Why did Tyson never fight Foreman?

Why did Trinidad never fight Mosley?

Because some fights just never materialize, not because they were ducking. I used Jones opponents at the time as proof that Jones still fought top notch competition and who HBO wanted him to fight.

After Jones fought Frazier, in the post fight interview, HBO/Lampley mentioned 4 guys Jones should fight. Want to know who they were? Johnson, Telesco, Darius and Hopkins who he already beat. Roy fought 3 of the 4 guys and yet guys today come out with fighters that were never seriously considered as opponents back then. I think Steve Collins was talking about coming out of retirement, but couldn't even do that because he got KO'd by Howard Eastman in sparring.

Give me a break.

Nobody thought Telesco was a threat. LMAO.
The two threats at 175 were Dariuz and Graciano Rochigiani.


Also according to all rankings and credible boxing pundits sources, the best at 160-168 during the mid 90's ranking wise was Roy/Toney/Hopkins/Benn/Mccellan/Eubank/Collins.

Roy fought 2 out of 6 and that's the bottom line. Nothing more need to be said. It doesn't matter if they were the 2 best out of the 6, it's still 2 out of 6.

[JasonBoxing]

No, it can't stop lying.

Jim Lampley is on record saying Collins turned down a big pay day not to fight Jones.

Collins "tried" to make a comeback on Calzaghe's undercard in a bout where "if he won", he would matchup with Jones in 99. Collins ended up getting sent to the hospital during sparring with Howard Eastman and the thoughts were scrapped.

Now, prior to 1997, show me one interview or mainstream article or anything that said Roy ducked Steve Collins. All the money in the world that you can't.

Stop lying and talking about schit you know nothing about

Why are you so angry man. Roy won't get you more income or a nicer car. Roy's life have nothing to do with you. Stop being so emotionally invested in a person that have literally nothing to do with your success.


I don't care what excuses there were and who's fault was who.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS

Roy did not fight 4 of the 6 best fighters at 160-168 and he did not fight 2 of the 3 best fighters at 175.

I DON'T CARE who's fault it was or if they all ducked him.

HE STILL DID NOT FIGHT THEM.
So stats wise:
He missed out on 4 of 6 from 160-168
and
2 out of 3 at 175

The end.

[Chollo Vista]

Also Roy didn't beat half the top guys around his weight during his reign.

He was undisputed champ at 175. Stop lying

At 160, he beat Hopkins.

He did beat Toney though but he missed out on Dariuz/Benn/Eubank/Mccellan

Again, show me one article or video back then that even alluded to Roy Jones Jr ducking any of those guys.

Chavez never fought Aaron Pryor, he must've ducked.
Foreman never fought Tyson, he must've ducked.
Tyson never fought Bowe, I guess he ducked.

Again, stop making stuff up. You obviously weren't around back then before the internet. Show me one video from HBO commentary alluded to a highly clamorized fight with any of the aforementioned guys? Only guy is Dariusz and it's highly publicized why that fight didn't happen.

Just stop.

Those guys were seriously dangerous for Roy. This is a bit different from Floyd missing out on some fighters during his prime. Floyd's competitor pool was much larger than Roy's, in order for Floyd to fight everyone around their primes, he would had to fight like 10 fights a year. Roy's competitive pool around his weights at the time was maybe a dozen fighters at best. So missing out on a full third is not acceptable.

What are you talking about? Those guys were no more dangerous for Roy than the guys he fought.

Benn - Jones dominated Malinga who twice beat Benn (first fight a robbery)

Eubank - Eubank admitting avoiding the fight, saying the only way he'd take the fight is if Jones was his mandatory. Eubank went 50-50 in a close fight with Malinga also

McClellan's career was cut short in 95. When were they supposed to fight?

You have a guy like Tony Thorton who was in a close fight with Eubank, went 12 with Toney, blasted in 3 by Jones.

Around his 160-175 weight, a case can be made that Benn/Dariuz/Eubank/and Mccellan were 4 of the top 10 of the 90's

Again, outside of Dariuz, who wouldn't travel when Roy had all the belts but the WBO, tell me when Jones was supposed to fight Benn, Eubank and McClellan? These fights were never clamored by HBO commentary or the boxing public. Stop making schit up and rewriting history

[Chollo Vista]

Nobody thought Telesco was a threat. LMAO.

Exhibit A, when people talk about schit they have no idea about



Go to 1:58 of the video. I'll let Larry Merchant tell you how he felt at the time. Again, stop re-writing history.

The two threats at 175 were Dariuz and Graciano Rochigiani.

It was just Dariuz. And he refused to travel when Roy was undisputed champ.

Also according to all rankings and credible boxing pundits sources, the best at 160-168 during the mid 90's ranking wise was Roy/Toney/Hopkins/Benn/Mccellan/Eubank/Collins.

Roy fought 2 out of 6 and that's the bottom line. Nothing more need to be said. It doesn't matter if they were the 2 best out of the 6, it's still 2 out of 6.

That means jack schit. What I'm "telling" you is, no one clamored for Roy to fight Benn, Eubanks or Collins at the time.

However in 2007 and 2008, people actually clamored for Floyd to fight Cotto, Williams and Marg; not so much Pac. Pac wasn't really mentioned as an opponent until late 2008 after the DLH fight.

In 2008, here were The Ring's top 10 Welterweights:

Antonio Margarito
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Joshua Clottey
Manny Pacquiao
Carlos Quintana
Zab Judah
Luis Collazo
Andre Berto
Isaac Hlatshwayo

In 2007, here were The Ring's top 10 Welterweights:

Floyd Mayweather Jr., Champion
Miguel Cotto
Paul Williams
Shane Mosley
Antonio Margarito
Zab Judah
Kermit Cintron
Luis Collazo
Joshua Clottey
Jackson Osei Bonsu
Oktay Urkal

Tell me why instead of fighting Cotto, Williams, Margarito, Floyd fought Ricky Hatton?

Don't come talking to me about rankings when in 2008, Floyd should've legitimately fought one of these guys instead of retiring.

[Chollo Vista]

he did not fight 2 of the 3 best fighters at 175.

Here you go lying again

How someone can be undisputed champ while owning 6-7 belts at once while not fighting 2 of the 3 best fighters is beyond me

1997 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Virgil Hill
Montell Griffin
William Guthrie
Lou Del Valle
Graciano Rocchigiani
Frank Tate
Michael Nunn
Drake Thadzi

1998 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Reggie Johnson
Graciano Rocchigiani
Lou Del Valle
Eric Harding
Montell Griffin
Michael Nunn
Antonio Tarver
David Telesco

1999 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Lou Del Valle
Reggie Johnson
Graciano Rocchigiani
Michael Nunn
Eric Harding
Antonio Tarver
David Telesco
Montell Griffin

2000 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Eric Harding
Reggie Johnson
David Telesco
Montell Griffin
Chris Johnson
Antonio Tarver
Greg Wright
Derrick Harmon

2007 Welterweight Ring
Floyd Mayweather Jr., Champion
Miguel Cotto
Paul Williams
Shane Mosley
Antonio Margarito
Zab Judah
Kermit Cintron
Luis Collazo
Joshua Clottey
Jackson Osei Bonsu
Oktay Urkal



2008 Welterweight Ring
Antonio Margarito
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Joshua Clottey
Manny Pacquiao
Carlos Quintana
Zab Judah
Luis Collazo
Andre Berto
Isaac Hlatshwayo

Funny Floyd retired in 2008 without facing 1 top Welterweight in 2007 or 2008. He waited years to fight Cotto. Never fought Margarito or Williams. I'll give him credit for trying to fight Mosley but Mosley had a sore tooth. Other than that, he pick and chose who he wanted to fight.

[JasonBoxing]

Here you go lying again

How someone can be undisputed champ while owning 6-7 belts at once while not fighting 2 of the 3 best fighters is beyond me

1997 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Virgil Hill
Montell Griffin
William Guthrie
Lou Del Valle
Graciano Rocchigiani
Frank Tate
Michael Nunn
Drake Thadzi

1998 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Reggie Johnson
Graciano Rocchigiani
Lou Del Valle
Eric Harding
Montell Griffin
Michael Nunn
Antonio Tarver
David Telesco

1999 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Lou Del Valle
Reggie Johnson
Graciano Rocchigiani
Michael Nunn
Eric Harding
Antonio Tarver
David Telesco
Montell Griffin

2000 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Eric Harding
Reggie Johnson
David Telesco
Montell Griffin
Chris Johnson
Antonio Tarver
Greg Wright
Derrick Harmon

2007 Welterweight Ring
Floyd Mayweather Jr., Champion
Miguel Cotto
Paul Williams
Shane Mosley
Antonio Margarito
Zab Judah
Kermit Cintron
Luis Collazo
Joshua Clottey
Jackson Osei Bonsu
Oktay Urkal



2008 Welterweight Ring
Antonio Margarito
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Joshua Clottey
Manny Pacquiao
Carlos Quintana
Zab Judah
Luis Collazo
Andre Berto
Isaac Hlatshwayo

Funny Floyd retired in 2008 without facing 1 top Welterweight in 2007 or 2008. He waited years to fight Cotto. Never fought Margarito or Williams. I'll give him credit for trying to fight Mosley but Mosley had a sore tooth. Other than that, he pick and chose who he wanted to fight.

I get it now. Lol. I didn't have time to read this whole thread, I just read your original post and thought you were a neutral that actually cared about insight and facts.

Turns out your true purpose is to bash Floyd and prop up Roy.

Cool. I don't care ENOUGH about either fighter or boxing for that matter to dissect and destroy your posts.

So let me rephrase my answer to your original post question and effectively end my participation in this thread.


'Roy Jones Jr is a greater fighter than Floyd. Roy never ducked anybody and would have knocked out Prime Lennox Lewis in his prime. Floyd ducked everyone. Coward"

Happy?

[Chollo Vista]

I just read your original post and thought you were a neutral that actually cared about insight and facts.

Well when you have a guy that shows up to a thread saying Roy ducked Benn, McCllean, Collins and Eubank and really doesn't have a clue about what actually happen in history, yes, that can't go unchecked.

It baffles me how you accused Roy of ducking all these guys, but overlook the fact that in 2007 and 2008 when Cotto, Margarito and Williams were all top ranked WW's, Floyd decided to fight JWW Ricky Hatton then retire.

It baffles me how you miss that. I have video and documentation of the boxing public asking for these fights (i.e. Mayweather vs Cotto/Marg/Williams).

You have 0 evidence other than some rankings to support your case. No news articles, interviews, video's, media, nothing.. Just you googling rankings 22 years ago and now you're all butthurt for getting called out on you schit.

Just like you said no one was asking Roy to fight Telesco. I show you a video and then you get all quiet. Don't come in here if you don't know your facts, noob

[djtmal]

Here you go lying again

How someone can be undisputed champ while owning 6-7 belts at once while not fighting 2 of the 3 best fighters is beyond me

1997 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Virgil Hill
Montell Griffin
William Guthrie
Lou Del Valle
Graciano Rocchigiani
Frank Tate
Michael Nunn
Drake Thadzi

1998 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Reggie Johnson
Graciano Rocchigiani
Lou Del Valle
Eric Harding
Montell Griffin
Michael Nunn
Antonio Tarver
David Telesco

1999 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Lou Del Valle
Reggie Johnson
Graciano Rocchigiani
Michael Nunn
Eric Harding
Antonio Tarver
David Telesco
Montell Griffin

2000 Ring
Roy Jones Jr.
Dariusz Michalczewski
Eric Harding
Reggie Johnson
David Telesco
Montell Griffin
Chris Johnson
Antonio Tarver
Greg Wright
Derrick Harmon

2007 Welterweight Ring
Floyd Mayweather Jr., Champion
Miguel Cotto
Paul Williams
Shane Mosley
Antonio Margarito
Zab Judah
Kermit Cintron
Luis Collazo
Joshua Clottey
Jackson Osei Bonsu
Oktay Urkal



2008 Welterweight Ring
Antonio Margarito
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Joshua Clottey
Manny Pacquiao
Carlos Quintana
Zab Judah
Luis Collazo
Andre Berto
Isaac Hlatshwayo

Funny Floyd retired in 2008 without facing 1 top Welterweight in 2007 or 2008. He waited years to fight Cotto. Never fought Margarito or Williams. I'll give him credit for trying to fight Mosley but Mosley had a sore tooth. Other than that, he pick and chose who he wanted to fight.

excellent breakdown