Who Has the Better Body of Work, Andre Ward or James Toney?

[IronDanHamza]

James Toney and it's not even close in my opinion. For Andre Ward to even level James Toney's entire career accomplishment, he has to beat someone like David Haye at the very least.

Also, beating Vasily Jirov at cruiserweight > beating Sergey Kovalev at light heavyweight in my opinion. Especially taking into consideration Toney and Jirov where involved in one of the most entertaining boxing bouts ever.

In addition, Mike Mccallum in my opinion is better than anybody Andre Ward has ever beaten.

Bull****. Jirov is no where near as good as Kovalev and literally has no good wins.

Yes McCallum is better than anyone Ward has beat but IMO mcCallum never lost to Toney except for when he was shot in the 3rd fight.

[New England]

For a second I thought this thread was "Who has the better body work"

Thought this was gonna be a fun thread

they're not low blows if you like the guy

[BrometheusBob.]

they're not low blows if you like the guy

[New England]

Bull****. Jirov is no where near as good as Kovalev and literally has no good wins.

Yes McCallum is better than anyone Ward has beat but IMO mcCallum never lost to Toney except for when he was shot in the 3rd fight.

middleweight and cruiserweight were [at the time] 30 lbs apart. ward has only gone up seven lbs. while i agreet that kovalev is a better p4p figher than jirov, and was actually on a lot of p4p lists, the guy you're replying to is referring not only to the quality of fighter, but the weight and the value that it gives the win.


and as for your opinion regarding the fights with mccallum, one could easily argue that ward has a loss to kovalev on his record.


would andre ward be competive with a mediocre crop of HW? i doubt it, personally. he doesn't have the power to climb weight like toney did.

i think toney's not only a more accomplished fighter, but a much more accomplished one. he boxed for 2+ decades and has done much, much more than ward has in this sport. ward is youngish and pretty fresh from the layoffs, so he's got time, but i can't see how one would possibly argue that he's done more in boxing than toney, who went all the way up to HW from a lower weight class than the one in which ward made himself a star.

[BG_Knocc_Out]

In terms of accomplishments? Wards wins over Froch, Kovalev, and Dawson seal it for me. Hell, even Kessler was considered the best SMW and favorite to win the Super Six at the time, and he dominated him in only his 20th fight.

[IronDanHamza]

middleweight and cruiserweight were [at the time] 30 lbs apart. ward has only gone up seven lbs. while i agreet that kovalev is a better p4p figher than jirov, and was actually on a lot of p4p lists, the guy you're replying to is referring not only to the quality of fighter, but the weight and the value that it gives the win.


and as for your opinion regarding the fights with mccallum, one could easily argue that ward has a loss to kovalev on his record.


would andre ward be competive with a mediocre crop of HW? i doubt it, personally. he doesn't have the power to climb weight like toney did.

i think toney's not only a more accomplished fighter, but a much more accomplished one. he boxed for 2+ decades and has done much, much more than ward has in this sport. ward is youngish and pretty fresh from the layoffs, so he's got time, but i can't see how one would possibly argue that he's done more in boxing than toney, who went all the way up to HW from a lower weight class than the one in which ward made himself a star.

I agree Ward would fail at HW just as Toney did. His "run" there is not good so I don't know why it's always brought up.

That's what I meant regarding Kovalev. Not sure how a H2H match would go because Kovalev hasn't fought there but all i'm saying is is Kovalev is better than Jirov.

I said except Kovalev for Ward.

[Madison Boxing]

toney, by a distance. ward clinched kessler 80 or so times and headbutted him. he beat froch by 1 round. and the two kovalev wins were both extremely controversial. And are bika and barrera meant to be impressive wins or something?

[IronDanHamza]

toney, by a distance. ward clinched kessler 80 or so times and headbutted him. he beat froch by 1 round. and the two kovalev wins were both extremely controversial. And are bika and barrera meant to be impressive wins or something?

Toney lost to worse fighters than Bika and Barrera.

[Redd Foxx]

I've got a ton of respect for Toney and what he did, he perhaps did better than anyone else. But, I don't think his actual wins are as strong as Ward's. Somehow, we forget how highly regarded Kessler, Froch, Dawson, and now even Kovalev were when he faced them. It's very easy to dismiss these guys after Dre picks them apart.

If we're talking about pure slickness, Toney was on some other-level shyt. Ward doesn't have those reflexes. However, he's a more versatile and smarter fighter all-around.

[IronDanHamza]

I've got a ton of respect for Toney and what he did, he perhaps did better than anyone else. But, I don't think his actual wins are as strong as Ward's. Somehow, we forget how highly regarded Kessler, Froch, Dawson, and now even Kovalev were when he faced them. It's very easy to dismiss these guys after Dre picks them apart.

If we're talking about pure slickness, Toney was on some other-level shyt. Ward doesn't have those reflexes. However, he's a more versatile and smarter fighter all-around.

Other level **** how?

Ward get's hit less than Toney.