Who is more likely to be remembered 20 years from now? A guy who retired undefeted mu

[GhostofDempsey]

If guys like you continually use an "enhanced negative lens" to examine Floyd 's resume, you shouldn't get mad when people return the favor when looking at Pac's resume.

It's not that Manny doesn't get credit for Cotto, he does. However, if we use the "enhanced negative lens" you are using, then its fair to point out Cotto was at 145 and was drained and Margs beat him first, likely using illegally loaded handwraps.

Cotto wasn't drained for the Pac fight. Pac's detractors conveniently forget that he came up from Flyweight and is always the smaller man in the ring. It's a fighter's responsibility to be at his best for a fight, so to use weight drain as an excuse is just that, an excuse.

Pac sought out hard fights and tough opponents, Floyd waited for them to be softened up with age or battle fatigue, that's just a fact. When you look at all the excuses he has used over the years for avoiding certain fighters while making exceptions for others, it doesn't take a MENSA member to figure out his winning formula.

[SplitSecond]

The problem is guys like you said Floyd was afraid to fight him prior to the fight. You said he was better than Floyd as well. Then when Floyd beat him so decisively, then you decided to say he was old and shot.

Same with Manny. You claimed he was going to beat Floyd and that Floyd was afraid to fight him. FLoyd wins and then Manny is shot. Floyd retires, Manny reclaims the WW crown and you and his other fans claim he is by far the best WW in the world. Most rankings have him in the top 5-6 p4p.

Guys like you get done in by your own warped logic. Then you try and backtrack or change your position after Floyd wins. Maybe if you guys were just honest about the situation you wouldn't have to do this.

You're projecting a lot(what's new?). Either way, this is irrelevant, who would lie to themselves that Mosley was anything but "shot" (not past prime, "shot") vs Mayweather? it was plain to see.

Despite who people thought would win it was unanimously agreed that Pacquiao now fought relatively cautious and noncommittal, choosing to box more. And what people thought was due to Mayweather before (Pacquiao's output) has now been shown to be simply Pacquiao being well past it.

[The Big Dunn]

Cotto wasn't drained for the Pac fight. Pac's detractors conveniently forget that he came up from Flyweight and is always the smaller man in the ring. It's a fighter's responsibility to be at his best for a fight, so to use weight drain as an excuse is just that, an excuse.

Pac sought out hard fights and tough opponents, Floyd waited for them to be softened up with age or battle fatigue, that's just a fact. When you look at all the excuses he has used over the years for avoiding certain fighters while making exceptions for others, it doesn't take a MENSA member to figure out his winning formula.

You are completely ignoring the point being made for some reason. It isn't whether cotto was drained or not, it's the way you get upset when the negative analysis/evaluation you use is used by others on fighters you like.

WHat excuses? ODH, Manny, SHane, Cotto, Hamed and Kosta all refused to or waited to fight Floyd. This stuff is all fact checked and documented. I get you hate Floyd but lets stop blaming him for the actions of other men.

[The Big Dunn]

You're projecting a lot(what's new?). Either way, this is irrelevant, who would lie to themselves that Mosley was anything but "shot" (not past prime, "shot") vs Mayweather? it was plain to see.

Despite who people thought would win it was unanimously agreed that Pacquiao now fought relatively cautious and noncommittal, choosing to box more. And what people thought was due to Mayweather before (Pacquiao's output) has now been shown to be simply Pacquiao being well past it.

Projecting is just some term you picked up and are misapplying as usual.

I am pointing out what you posted prior to the fight. Had you said this before the fight-SHane is old and likely ineffective-then you'd have a point. Instead, you went the other direction-Shane is a top p4p fighter that Floyd is afraid of-then changed when Floyd won convincingly.

That isn't unanimous at all. Some people, mostly inside the sport, feel Manny was always going to be ineffective against Floyd and that he settled on taking the money when he realized he couldn't hit him.

[SplitSecond]

Projecting is just some term you picked up and are misapplying as usual.

I am pointing out what you posted prior to the fight. Had you said this before the fight-SHane is old and likely ineffective-then you'd have a point. Instead, you went the other direction-Shane is a top p4p fighter that Floyd is afraid of-then changed when Floyd won convincingly.

That isn't unanimous at all. Some people, mostly inside the sport, feel Manny was always going to be ineffective against Floyd and that he settled on taking the money when he realized he couldn't hit him.

You know what I said? Because I don't remember. We hadn't seen Mosley in the ring for a year and a half, so how would anyone know what the 38 year old would look like when his juice was taken. The only fact you need is his in-ring condition.

The guys that thought Pacquiao didn't stand a chance were Floyd boys and Americans, like he is today, Mayweather is severely overrated. If we remember a lot of Floyd boys (the guys that know what they are talking about) were saying Floyd would knock Pacquiao out and the other half that Floyd would walk Pacquiao down and work him inside where Pacquiao has no game (and this isn't talk from 2009/2010, this is from when the fight was official).

[The Big Dunn]

You know what I said? Because I don't remember. We hadn't seen the Mosley in the ring for a year and a half, so how would anyone know what the 38 year old would look like when his juice was taken. The only fact you need is his in-ring condition.

The guys that thought Pacquiao didn't stand a chance were Floyd boys and Americans, like he is today, Mayweather is severely overrated. If we remember a lot of Floyd boys (the guys that know what they are talking about) were saying Floyd would knock Pacquiao out and the other half that Floyd would walk Pacquiao down and work him inside where Pacquiao has no game (and this isn't talk from 2009/2010, this is from when the fight was official).

Sure you don't.

You are making my point for me. Had you approached the pre fight analysis as a rational adult then there would be no need for any of this. Instead, you and others went with the usual anti Floyd stuff and pinned youraelf in a corner then had to flip flop because Floyd won.

If you think he is, that fine. He always is and always will be ranked ahead of Manny and everyone else in his generation whenever media/historians/journalists rank fighters.

That is good enough for me. I suspect this bothers you a lot. It shouldn't. Manny made it very far considering where he started.

[GhostofDempsey]

You are completely ignoring the point being made for some reason. It isn't whether cotto was drained or not, it's the way you get upset when the negative analysis/evaluation you use is used by others on fighters you like.

WHat excuses? ODH, Manny, SHane, Cotto, Hamed and Kosta all refused to or waited to fight Floyd. This stuff is all fact checked and documented. I get you hate Floyd but lets stop blaming him for the actions of other men.

First, I don't get angry over delusional fans of Mayweather who are content to double-down on their ignorance when it comes to facts and the time line of his career. But a majority of them cannot debate those facts without tossing insults and resorting to juvenile name-calling. So I either return fire or ignore them. My tone may be stoic, but not angry.

Mosley was chasing Floyd since lightweight. Back around 2007/8 Floyd used Mosley's four or five losses as an excuse not to fight him. Though, Floyd didn't have a problem fighting a faded DLH with four losses or a Baldomir two years earlier with nine losses. Gatti had six. Suddenly Mosley's four losses were an issue and disqualified him as an opponent.

Floyd fans conveniently ignore that he avoided tough opponents at 130/135 in Stevie Johnston--a slick southpaw, Casamayor, Freitas, Spadafora, Mosley.

Floyd then chose to "retire" to avoid a rematch with DLH and to avoid the prime lot of welters staring back at him in Manny, Cotto, Williams, Margarito. They were all calling for a fight with him, not ducking him as you claim. He let them sort one another out before coming back to fight a much smaller Marquez coming up two weight classes. A fight Floyd didn't even make weight for.

Let's not forget how he called out Winky Wright, and when Wright called his bluff, Floyd ran the other way. That's a fact you can go check for yourself.

No one had ever accused Pac of using PEDs until Floyd levied that accusation in en effort to damage his reputation and discredit him as an opponent. After the lawsuit was settled Manny agreed to testing and Floyd ducked the other way. From there it was about five years and ten excuses later that he finally fought a Pac who had lost a step and fought most of the fight one-handed. Floyd was caught with an illegal IV the day prior but none of his fans find that sketchy in the least. That is the biggest smoking gun ever, and it was conveniently swept under the rug by USADA. To me, this raises su****ions that Floyd had been cheating for a long time, not just for the Pac fight.

[New England]

manny pacquiao will be remembered for being a tiny little guy massacring big, durable welterweights. but most of all he'll be remembered for victories over barrera, marquez, and morales.



floyd mayweather will be remembered by historians primarily for his longevity and his skills. the names on his resume really don't stack up to manny's when you consider that one started his pro career just above a hundred lbs, and was the best 112 lber in the world before moving all the way to welterweight, something which has never been done at the world level.

[The Big Dunn]

First, I don't get angry over delusional fans of Mayweather who are content to double-down on their ignorance when it comes to facts and the time line of his career. But a majority of them cannot debate those facts without tossing insults and resorting to juvenile name-calling. So I either return fire or ignore them. My tone may be stoic, but not angry.

Mosley was chasing Floyd since lightweight. Back around 2007/8 Floyd used Mosley's four or five losses as an excuse not to fight him. Though, Floyd didn't have a problem fighting a faded DLH with four losses or a Baldomir two years earlier with nine losses. Gatti had six. Suddenly Mosley's four losses were an issue and disqualified him as an opponent.

Floyd fans conveniently ignore that he avoided tough opponents at 130/135 in Stevie Johnston--a slick southpaw, Casamayor, Freitas, Spadafora, Mosley.

Floyd then chose to "retire" to avoid a rematch with DLH and to avoid the prime lot of welters staring back at him in Manny, Cotto, Williams, Margarito. They were all calling for a fight with him, not ducking him as you claim. He let them sort one another out before coming back to fight a much smaller Marquez coming up two weight classes. A fight Floyd didn't even make weight for.

Let's not forget how he called out Winky Wright, and when Wright called his bluff, Floyd ran the other way. That's a fact you can go check for yourself.

No one had ever accused Pac of using PEDs until Floyd levied that accusation in en effort to damage his reputation and discredit him as an opponent. After the lawsuit was settled Manny agreed to testing and Floyd ducked the other way. From there it was about five years and ten excuses later that he finally fought a Pac who had lost a step and fought most of the fight one-handed. Floyd was caught with an illegal IV the day prior but none of his fans find that sketchy in the least. That is the biggest smoking gun ever, and it was conveniently swept under the rug by USADA. To me, this raises su****ions that Floyd had been cheating for a long time, not just for the Pac fight.

Your 2nd paragraph is completely untrue. Mosley rejected a Floyd fight because of a toothache. Merchant called him on it in a post fight interview. The video has been posted numerous times. How did you forget this?

Just because the fights didn't happen you say Floyd avoided them without any facts.

I never claimed they ducked him. I posted they all avoided him or didn't fight him. Again, these are all on record.

Your last paragraph is inaccurate. You are leaving out a lot of stuff, all of it that shows Manny kept refusing the fight.

The IV isn't illegal. come on with the exaggeration. If you think Floyd cheated for a long time, fine with me. I get that you will do anything to discredit him.

We've gone way off track. Again my point is only you can't get mad when people use the same stuff you do to analyze Manny.

[GhostofDempsey]

Your 2nd paragraph is completely untrue. Mosley rejected a Floyd fight because of a toothache. Merchant called him on it in a post fight interview. The video has been posted numerous times. How did you forget this?

Just because the fights didn't happen you say Floyd avoided them without any facts.

I never claimed they ducked him. I posted they all avoided him or didn't fight him. Again, these are all on record.

Your last paragraph is inaccurate. You are leaving out a lot of stuff, all of it that shows Manny kept refusing the fight.

The IV isn't illegal. come on with the exaggeration. If you think Floyd cheated for a long time, fine with me. I get that you will do anything to discredit him.

We've gone way off track. Again my point is only you can't get mad when people use the same stuff you do to analyze Manny.

Your argument is getting weaker and weaker with each response.

Mosley did not duck Floyd over a toothache. He asked for a one month extension to recover from a head butt he received to the mouth in his previous fight. You can read the details of that here, Floyd had also turned down Mosley in 1999 when he refused to move up to 135 to fight him.

http://fighthype.com/fanzone/index.php?/topic/24867-shane-mosley-interview-sets-record-straight-on-ducking-floyd/

If you avoid a fighter that is called ducking, if you say they avoided him then you are saying they ducked him, you can't have it both ways.

I haven't left out anything. I have given you a very thorough synapsis of how things played out. I can list at least ten of Floyd's excuses used over the years to avoid Manny in his prime. It all started with his false PED accusations levied towards Pac. If you think that Floyd's use of the IV wasn't illegal, then you are clearly unreachable. I haven't even mentioned Floyd's questionable testosterone levels that have never been explained and serve as a huge red flag for PED use.