If Anthony Joshua knocks klitschko out, i don't want to see backpeddaling

[NakiFan]

From all of those who are claiming Joshua is a stiff dummy and klitschko is going to ko him

You will eat your crow if joshua knocks him out and there will be no excuses

[The Time]

I'm with you Nakifan, I'm hoping for a big Joshua win and hopefully a knockout at that. The Heavyweight division needs a resurgence and what better way to start than retiring 41 year old Klitschko. Time for the new blood Joshua, Wilder, Parker, etc.... to bring the Heavyweights back!

[The Time]

This is from a debate I had earlier about why it's vitaly important for Joshua to come out the victor April 29th:

He did more money than Lennox could during his career.. Lennox had one of the biggest paydays only against Tyson..
just because US did not have a HW champ, you say the division was dead!? I'm sorry that's a casual talking..
AJ looks promising, but Wilder and Parker would be mediocre guys in any era, they are getting all the hype because they hold a belt..

Money is not the issue, it's the glory. Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis

Lewis had Holyfield and Tyson in his era, Ali had Frazier and Foreman.

The Klitschko's had nobody in their era to fight. It's not their fault. But also they are perceived as boring. They have had great careers, both have. And sure Wladimir made more money, but it's about the glory not the money.
When did I say that since there isn't a dominant American Heavyweight that the division was dead when the Klitschko's were fighting? I didn't say that. It was dead because there was no competition. Lennox is British, Joshua is British and I'm a fan of them and they are not American. I was also starting to like Povetkin before the steroids issue, but he totally destroyed his career with that. What I was also trying to say is you have to be exciting and have good competition to compete against. The Klitschko's didn't have that.

In Europe Klitschko is big over there. But with his jab, jab, clinch, jab, clinch, jab, jab, clinch style. It's very, very boring. That's why the Klitschko's were not successful in the USA. People barely watched when they were on HBO. I can only remember 1 PPV that was done it was Klitschko vs Williams. The numbers were so bad here, they never did PPV again.

Again I know they are great in Europe and appreciated over there. And I also recognize the Klitschko's as the best of their era and respect their accomplishments. I'm just saying in America they are perceived as boring. And while they had tremendous careers, they can't be compared to Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Holyfield, Lewis, etc....


Wladimir Klitschko has had an awesome career. I respect his achievements, but at 41 I'm hoping this is it for him and the torch can be passed and Klitschko can retire and get inducted into the hall of fame. And I agree with you that a lot of the Heavyweights today can't be compared to past greats or would have been mediocre in their era. But it is competitive again and that's what people want, competition. Hopefully it's now time for the new blood.

[BoxingFan85]

This is from a debate I had earlier about why it's vitaly important for Joshua to come out the victor April 29th:






Money is not the issue, it's the glory. Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis

Lewis had Holyfield and Tyson in his era, Ali had Frazier and Foreman.

The Klitschko's had nobody in their era to fight. It's not their fault. But also they are perceived as boring. They have had great careers, both have. And sure Wladimir made more money, but it's about the glory not the money.
When did I say that since there isn't a dominant American Heavyweight that the division was dead when the Klitschko's were fighting? I didn't say that. It was dead because there was no competition. Lennox is British, Joshua is British and I'm a fan of them and they are not American. I was also starting to like Povetkin before the steroids issue, but he totally destroyed his career with that. What I was also trying to say is you have to be exciting and have good competition to compete against. The Klitschko's didn't have that.

In Europe Klitschko is big over there. But with his jab, jab, clinch, jab, clinch, jab, jab, clinch style. It's very, very boring. That's why the Klitschko's were not successful in the USA. People barely watched when they were on HBO. I can only remember 1 PPV that was done it was Klitschko vs Williams. The numbers were so bad here, they never did PPV again.

Again I know they are great in Europe and appreciated over there. And I also recognize the Klitschko's as the best of their era and respect their accomplishments. I'm just saying in America they are perceived as boring. And while they had tremendous careers, they can't be compared to Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Holyfield, Lewis, etc....


Wladimir Klitschko has had an awesome career. I respect his achievements, but at 41 I'm hoping this is it for him and the torch can be passed and Klitschko can retire and get inducted into the hall of fame. And I agree with you that a lot of the Heavyweights today can't be compared to past greats or would have been mediocre in their era. But it is competitive again and that's what people want, competition. Hopefully it's now time for the new blood.

YOu make sense on so many points you made but fell off the mark when you brought Tyson into the picture.. Mike Tyson was in his prime for 3-4yrs and faced mediocre competition, a lot of people gave him a pass because he was destroying them.. one guy boxed at range and matched punch to punch and he couldn't fight any different..
Lennox fought better competition than Holyfield as he faced a lot of up and comers in their prime and destroyed them.. Grant, Golota, Tua.. Holyfield was a special breed.. Sure Ali, Foreman and Frazier were the fighters during the beat era of HW and Joe Louis too..
Larry Holmes and Klitschkos had the same issue, they were so much better than the competition that the fights felt a mismatch.. can't blame them and it also doesn't mean the opponents were crappy, it's just that they couldn't get better of the champs..
You can't go unbeaten for 10yrs and fighting 2-3 times a year by fighting bums.. Wlad has more unbeaten and young guys in his resume than most of the HW champs expect a few.. Let's not forget Lennox was critized his whole career and they glorified him only after his retirement.. Like it has been always, the fighters are held at high regards when they are long gone from the game..
My issue with the current state of the division is exactly what happened in WW since Manny and Floyd retired or semi retired.. Too many belts and too many champs, some are good and some are average at best..
Win or lose, Wlad will go down in history books.. but the guy deserves credit for taking on young gun like AJ when people these take easy route to a title like Parker did.. Parker is a good prospect but not champ material..

[Robbie Barrett]

41, losing his last fight and hasn't fought in a year and a half is excuse enough. If it wasn't a big money fight Joshua would stay away from Klitschko, big risk and little credit if he wins.

[The Time]

YOu make sense on so many points you made but fell off the mark when you brought Tyson into the picture.. Mike Tyson was in his prime for 3-4yrs and faced mediocre competition, a lot of people gave him a pass because he was destroying them.. one guy boxed at range and matched punch to punch and he couldn't fight any different..
Lennox fought better competition than Holyfield as he faced a lot of up and comers in their prime and destroyed them.. Grant, Golota, Tua.. Holyfield was a special breed.. Sure Ali, Foreman and Frazier were the fighters during the beat era of HW and Joe Louis too..
Larry Holmes and Klitschkos had the same issue, they were so much better than the competition that the fights felt a mismatch.. can't blame them and it also doesn't mean the opponents were crappy, it's just that they couldn't get better of the champs..
You can't go unbeaten for 10yrs and fighting 2-3 times a year by fighting bums.. Wlad has more unbeaten and young guys in his resume than most of the HW champs expect a few.. Let's not forget Lennox was critized his whole career and they glorified him only after his retirement.. Like it has been always, the fighters are held at high regards when they are long gone from the game..
My issue with the current state of the division is exactly what happened in WW since Manny and Floyd retired or semi retired.. Too many belts and too many champs, some are good and some are average at best..
Win or lose, Wlad will go down in history books.. but the guy deserves credit for taking on young gun like AJ when people these take easy route to a title like Parker did.. Parker is a good prospect but not champ material..

Mike Tyson lost to Holyfield, Lewis. But he was a polarizing figure. Youngest Heavyweight champ in history. After the loss to Douglas it was kind of downhill from there. I think when he became incarcerated that really messed him up. When he got out he fought no hopers, though he knocked Bruno out twice. But when he stepped up, lost to Holyfield and was really done by the time he fought Lewis. You brought up a good point about Larry Holmes and the Klitschko's. No one to fight. If Holmes were around with Ali, Frazier and Foreman that would have been great. Also the Klitschko's around during the primes of Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield it would have been very interesting. And again it's not Holmes or the Klitschko's fault. It's just how history played out. I agree with the Heavyweights you mentioned Tua, Grant, Golota, Bowe....Rid**** Bowe, he was lazy, could have achieved so much more. If the Klitschko's fought with these guys along with Tyson, Lewis and Holyfield, that would have been great.

We have a lot of different guys now at Heavyweight. Luis Ortiz, though he's getting old, Joshua, Wilder, Parker, Fury if he can get back, Big Baby Miller, Andy Ruiz if he can get himself in shape. There's a lot of guys to fight each other. And we'll see if the cream can rise to the top.

[Elroy The Great]

prime guy vs post prime guy

whats to back peddle

[Elroy The Great]

Mike Tyson lost to Holyfield, Lewis. But he was a polarizing figure. Youngest Heavyweight champ in history.

meh

would he have been the youngest hw champ if his opponent was holy or lewis ?

he was the youngest hw champ because the guy he beat was a scrub.

[The Time]

meh

would he have been the youngest hw champ if his opponent was holy or lewis ?

he was the youngest hw champ because the guy he beat was a scrub.

Agreed, but it's part of history and he did capture a lot of people's imagination. I mean I don't regard him as high as Holyfield or Lewis. In Tyson's prime which was like a 4 year span or so. We don't know exactly how he would have fared with Holyfield and Lewis. Who knows really. Holyfield and Lewis had more longevity than Tyson. Tyson had a short prime. Similar to Rid**** Bowe who to fault of his own of being lazy. He could have done better but he was lazy.

[Elroy The Great]

Agreed, but it's part of history and he did capture a lot of people's imagination. I mean I don't regardless him as high as Holyfield or Lewis. In Tyson's prime which was like a 4 years span or so. We don't know exactly how he would have fared with Holyfield and Lewis. Who knows really. Holyfield and Lewis had more longevity than Tyson. Tyson had a short prime. Similar to Rid**** Bowe who to fault of his own of being lazy. He could have done better but he was lazy.

true, we can never know for sure. what i have to go by is who was actually tested ?

when a guy is fed the guys tyson was, he has no choice but to shine. but when he did step up, well, it wasnt even close.

imho, it isnt a far stretch to see tyson getting beaten if a real champ was there instead of berbick.