A P4P Record

[SensFullViolenc]

Just to simplify things, I look at 3 main things

"Skills" = how boxer looks in the ring. This includes innate things like speed & power (could call it "Skills and talent"), as well as developed skills like proper footwork & throwing punches

"Resume" - basically, who you have fought. I weigh fights against other good fighters mostly. If you have 20 defenses against weak opposition, it doesn't impress me

Significant fights "Across divisions" - if you be successful across division it just shows that you are very good

1. Chocolatito - #1 skills & #1 resume, across 4 divisions. Clear #1

2a. Kovalev - bc I thought he beat Ward. Great skills and resume. Only drawback is only 1 division w/ meaningful wins

2b. Ward - Competitive against Kovalev. excellent skills and excellent resume, now across 2 divisions, although he really stalled his career

4. GGG - excellent skills (#1 potential), meh resume. It will improve if he beats Jacobs. I admit that this ranking is based on "faith" in his skills, as his resume is solid, but not spectacular, and only 1 division

5. Bud - excellent skills, only a few good names, 2 divisions

6. Loma - #1 skills, but resume is thin for now. And that loss counts. I think he's a much better pro fighter now, wouldn't lose, but I cant just explain it away without more fights from him.

7. Rigo #excellent skills (hard to beat, but bores me to death tho, he fights so safety first). Only one good name on resume, 1 division

8. Inouye - excellent skills, #1 potential, thin resume but impressive he's done it across 2 divisions as hes so young,

9. Pac. - yes, he's past his prime. But he's still outclassing good fighters like Bradley & Vargas. Across many divisions

10. LSC/Nietes/Estrada/Canelo/Yamanaka - really, once you get to around #10, does it really matter. Any of these dudes can be there. All except Yamanaka across divisions. Yamanaka is a name I see a lot, if his best opponent is Moreno (in one close fight & one more dominant), I question him on a p4p list, but I admit I haven't seen many of his fights.

If Garcia wins this weekend he'll shoot up to around 7 or so. Not sure I'd say the same about Thurman, maybe he'd get in that mix at #10.

[SensFullViolenc]

I've explained it in other threads.

What it boils down to is this: Eye test + strength of competition (with the emphasis on what that competition did before AND after the meeting with the fighter on the list).

To me that is the simplest explanation of my criteria, altho I add "across divisions" as something to consider.

[koolkc107]

To me that is the simplest explanation of my criteria, altho I add "across divisions" as something to consider.

No problem with that addition.

Clearly a guy that continues to do it while moving up or down gets more credit.

Which is why a guy like Loma makes my top 10 even with an abbreviated resume.

One more big win and/or vengeance against Salido and I won't be able to keep him out of the top 3 or 4. (No problem with those who put him there already even if I disagree).

[SensFullViolenc]

And I see there has been discussion about Canelos proper placement on a p4p list. IMO, its ridiculous to put him any higher than #8.

Skills - good boxing skills, good power, not very fast. My eye test says no way he is #1 potential.

Resume - embarrassed by the p4p #1 (its funny, when going over Canelo's resume, fans don't even list this, act like it never happened). Compare to Estrada, who was extremely competitive against a future #1.
Clear win over Cotto, nip & tuck v. Trout & Lara. -- This is a good resume, but not a great one. (Khan? at 155, Khan is not a good fighter)

Across divisions - all his significant wins have come either at 154 or 155 - basically the same division. WW career was meh. "MW" career? not really.

IMO, just to compare Estrada has more claim to p4p than Canelo (resume, performance against a p4p#1, across divisions, unlike Canelo).

[soul_survivor]

Just to simplify things, I look at 3 main things

"Skills" = how boxer looks in the ring. This includes innate things like speed & power (could call it "Skills and talent"), as well as developed skills like proper footwork & throwing punches

"Resume" - basically, who you have fought. I weigh fights against other good fighters mostly. If you have 20 defenses against weak opposition, it doesn't impress me

Significant fights "Across divisions" - if you be successful across division it just shows that you are very good

1. Chocolatito - #1 skills & #1 resume, across 4 divisions. Clear #1

2a. Kovalev - bc I thought he beat Ward. Great skills and resume. Only drawback is only 1 division w/ meaningful wins

2b. Ward - Competitive against Kovalev. excellent skills and excellent resume, now across 2 divisions, although he really stalled his career

4. GGG - excellent skills (#1 potential), meh resume. It will improve if he beats Jacobs. I admit that this ranking is based on "faith" in his skills, as his resume is solid, but not spectacular, and only 1 division

5. Bud - excellent skills, only a few good names, 2 divisions

6. Loma - #1 skills, but resume is thin for now. And that loss counts. I think he's a much better pro fighter now, wouldn't lose, but I cant just explain it away without more fights from him.

7. Rigo #excellent skills (hard to beat, but bores me to death tho, he fights so safety first). Only one good name on resume, 1 division

8. Inouye - excellent skills, #1 potential, thin resume but impressive he's done it across 2 divisions as hes so young,

9. Pac. - yes, he's past his prime. But he's still outclassing good fighters like Bradley & Vargas. Across many divisions

10. LSC/Nietes/Estrada/Canelo/Yamanaka - really, once you get to around #10, does it really matter. Any of these dudes can be there. All except Yamanaka across divisions. Yamanaka is a name I see a lot, if his best opponent is Moreno (in one close fight & one more dominant), I question him on a p4p list, but I admit I haven't seen many of his fights.

If Garcia wins this weekend he'll shoot up to around 7 or so. Not sure I'd say the same about Thurman, maybe he'd get in that mix at #10.

Good stuff. The no. 10 position also a conundrum for me.

To me that is the simplest explanation of my criteria, altho I add "across divisions" as something to consider.

So do I but only if it's relevant ofc.

And I see there has been discussion about Canelos proper placement on a p4p list. IMO, its ridiculous to put him any higher than #8.

Skills - good boxing skills, good power, not very fast. My eye test says no way he is #1 potential.

Resume - embarrassed by the p4p #1 (its funny, when going over Canelo's resume, fans don't even list this, act like it never happened). Compare to Estrada, who was extremely competitive against a future #1.
Clear win over Cotto, nip & tuck v. Trout & Lara. -- This is a good resume, but not a great one. (Khan? at 155, Khan is not a good fighter)

Across divisions - all his significant wins have come either at 154 or 155 - basically the same division. WW career was meh. "MW" career? not really.

IMO, just to compare Estrada has more claim to p4p than Canelo (resume, performance against a p4p#1, across divisions, unlike Canelo).

I don't think it's fair to bring up the Mayweather bout, in which Canelo had to go down to an idiotic weight of 152 while both men were champs at 154 and he was only 21 or 22 at the time.

Canelo since then has beaten the best guys in and around his division. Admittedly, he didn't fight at a proper limit but then again, neither did Mayweather against Canelo lol

I personally think Canelo should be on the higher end of the p4p scale but obviously not number one.

[soul_survivor]

I feel the winner of Thurman v Garcia and AJ v Wlad will be entered into the p4p list. My list anyway lol

[soul_survivor]

Anyone thinking of updating their p4p lists with Bellew? He was a top contender at 175, a world title man at cruiser and has a win over a legit top 10 heavyweight (whatever the circumstances). Thats pretty much what we want from p4p guys?

[soul_survivor]

No changes to my p4p list from last night. GGG won comfortably and Gonzalez was robbed. Having said that, a rematch for the latter would put things back in order. As for GGG, it looks like his prime is ebbing away.

[soul_survivor]

1. Sergey Kovalev
2. Roman Gonzalez
3. Gennady Golovkin
4. Saul Alvarez
5. Vasyl Lomachenko
6. Terence Crawford
7. Manny Pacquiao
8. Anthony Joshua
9. Naoya Inoue
10. Shinsuke Yamanaka

Estrada leaves my list, AJ slots in.

[soul_survivor]

1. Sergey Kovalev
2. Roman Gonzalez
3. Gennady Golovkin
4. Saul Alvarez
5. Vasyl Lomachenko
6. Terence Crawford
7. Manny Pacquiao
8. Anthony Joshua
9. Naoya Inoue
10. Shinsuke Yamanaka

Pac slots out, Kovalev drops down so:

1. Roman Gonzalez
2. Gennady Golovkin
3. Sergey Kovalev
4. saul Alvarez
5. Vasyl Lomachenko
6. Terence Crawford
7. ANthony Joshua
8. Naoya Inoue
9. Shinsuke Yamanaka
10. Keith Thurman (breaks in for the first time, since Estrada dropped out last and Manny is gone now)