ex-kickboxer, gets beat

[gandhalf]

I was saying gandhalf about the PPL that post these thread's and comment sayig that MMA,ULT fighting etc are surpassing boxing, and in some thread's they say they have better stamina and basicly there just BETTER. I was just asking did that have something to do with his post and did that bother him as well.

Well, they're right and they're wrong.

They're wrong cause most mmaers are just opportunists.
Others are products of reality shows (such as TUF , although, Mike Bisping is on another caliber compared to the usual casting they have for these types of shows).
And most mma orgs tend to have mediocre fighters.

HOWEVER.

If you're being realistic.
They're also right.
In the sense that, just like in pro boxing, "cans" are everywhere. and just like in pro boxing. there's top fighters too. just like in any combat sports.
Meaning that some mmaers have an incredible stamina too. (take Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira for example or Silva, Rogerio,Arona etc etc..).
and these very same top fighters are indeed better at everything else except "boxing". Which is not surprising since most are ground fighters to begin with.

As far as the TV ratings are concerned. That's another story.
But mma is growing rapidly. It's almost scary how fast it's evolving actually.
And I think no one should deny this because it's not helping boxing either. Denying this problem is not gonna make it go away.

And I think the only way for boxing to make a major come back is to take example on how these orgs are operating... to get the fans excited.

Remember Lyakhovich vs Brewster? that's what the HW boxing div needs.
Wars, entertainment , ultra motivated opponents.

[bigdlb12]

I would love to see what a good HW boxer can do in the ring vs a MMA (UFC) HW of the same level, I know the take downs would be hard for the boxer but all it would take would be that one punch,

[gandhalf]

I would love to see what a good HW boxer can do in the ring vs a MMA (UFC) HW of the same level, I know the take downs would be hard for the boxer but all it would take would be that one punch,

Good luck for the "one punch" btw.. cause even if it lands. It won't necesarilly KO the opponent who's trying to take you down.
And don't forget. the ref will never intervene during the clinch.

But for the sake of argument.

TOP HW Boxer vs TOP HW UFC fighter.

Let's see. (no order)
Klitschko
Brewster
Dimitrenko
Williams
Lyakhovich
Toney
Valuev
Rahman
Vidoz
Skelton
Sam Peter
Byrd
Maskaev
Brock
Ibragimov


To name a few

In the UFC they have..
Sylvia
Monson
Cruz
Mir
Arlovski
Vera
Buentello
Gonzaga
Imes
Murphy
Aldano
Hinkle
Assuerio
Scherner
etc...

-------------

Even IN mma

Sylvia (who's the current champion) would get murdered by probably most top boxers. Mainly because Sylvia is no real mmaer anyway. He's got ZERO ground fighting knowledge and his striking is a joke. He's got KO power and that's it. But He's ****in slow!! and He's got no defense.

Same for Arlovski. (who's supposedly a champion in sambo fighting but he's a joke compared to confirmed world champs of this discipline)..Like Sylvia, he's got no defense. and his Chin is made of glass.

Maybe..Just maybe, with a descent gameplan Arlovski could take these boxers on the ground and submit them. But who knows. These guys love to trade punches even though they suck at it.

and the sad thing is that Arlovsky and Sylvia are the best HWs of the ufc.

Mir is ufc's best submission artist. but his takedowns are not good enough. and his stamina is absolutely horrible.
--------------------

If Brewster, Klitschko, Lyakhovich etc..had a solid sprawl they would kill these guys imo. Maybe they wouldn't even need to defend the takedowns cause those ufc guys love to stand.

However...
I wouldn't give Valuev,Ruiz,Toney, klitschko, lyakhovich,brewster,Byrd,Rahman,Skelton,williams,M askaev,Brock,Ibragimov etc... a chance in hell vs Pride's top 3 HW fighters. maybe not even vs ****ty strikers such as Yoshida & werdum. simply because no matter how good your sprawl is.. Or How good you've been training to defend subs on the ground.. You ain't gonna learn how to surpass an adcc elite or olympic judo champ at his own game.
SO their best chances would be to pray for a one punch KO.
Then again.
Its pretty hard to land it when a guy is shooting for your legs or throwing knees during the clinch. and don't forget the kicks too.

[beezy 14]

Gandhalf, as a boxing fan I agree that Boxing has a "problem" when you compare it to the glory days, and boxing has it's cans as well. I never denied that MMA is growing but IMO they're have been several phenomenon type sport's that eventually die out. I'm not ignorant to the fact that they're are great athlete's in every sport, my comment was to the PPL that try to say it's surpassed boxing I don't agree with that. Sport's in general has changed and that's do to MONEY and they can't give the general public what's needed for it to thrive. I wasn't knocking any of these other style's of fighting, but IMO they can never capture the artistic aspect like boxing. And the history of boxing alone is a big part of the US culture (Louis vs Schmeling, Ali civil right's, etc) and these are thing's that will always keep it a step above MMA, Ultimate fighting, ETC IMO.

[beezy 14]

And Gandhalf you're taking Boxer's and putting them in the MMA fighting environment in your last post and that's fare enough because I'm not skilled in MMA enough to argue outcome's of fight's between mma and boxer's. But they don't ground fight and kick in boxing, but they do show some style of boxing in MMA. So if you made these mythical matchup's in a Boxing setting with the elite from the HW's against the top MMA ppl you mentioned how do you see that playing out?

[yrrej]

Comparing boxers and anything else is comparing apples and oranges. The rules make the fight, and the money determines the fighters. The big money is in boxing, so anybody who is good with their mitts will box first, and do anything else second, which is why so many over-the-hill boxers go into the MMA venues and embarass themselves. And the lure of big money is why MMA fighters go into boxing, although they haven't spent enough time strictly on developing boxing skills. Very few exceptions, and the only one I can think of presently is Chris John of Indonesia, who is a wu shu and boxing champion. The only success I knew personally was Troy Dorsey who was a world kickboxing champion at the time he won his world boxing title. And he did it purely on toughness and endurance, more than skills. A tough guy in any venue.

[Manny_P]

UFC MMA fighters PWNED!

[Banderivets]

Good post Ferocity, on this and other board's I get sick of seeing PPL saying that they like MMA and Ultimate fighting better then boxing and it's taking over ETC. Then they go as far as to say their fighter's are superior from a head to head aspect which is crazy because I've seen nothing to lead them to say this. I'm sure you posting this is a result of some of the same jibber jabber I hear and you tryna let them know?

Vitali mate, thats the man who should go in there and show what boxers really can do.

He was a 6 time kickboxing champ, and champ boxer with a punch and a granite chin.

I think he'd knock a **** load of people out in K1.

[outofit]

it may surpass boxing in popularity only. apples to oranges. I don't beleive mma'ers have half the stamina a world class boxer has to have. any one that makes the claim that one is tougher than the other is in his own world. both sports are there proving that it takes brains more than all else in a fight to be a winner. huble humility is the lesson for anyone who just thinks they are "tougher". . . that said tank would probably make tyson his *****

[Not Monty]

Mighty Mo was not a great kickboxer, just a freaky brawler, so no big surprise he got his ass handed to him.

As for the mma versus boxing debate, its like arguing over who'd beat who, Frankenstien or the Wolfman. They are totally different so its silly to argue about. In mma rules a sub-standard mma'er with good wrestling and ju jitsu would takedwon and submit Floyd Mayweather inside of a minute, whereas with boxing rules the same mma'er would get outclassed by an old b-level boxer.

In terms of popularity, mma ppv numbers have seen a serious rise in buys- thats a fact. It will never replace boxing, but it has managed to wedge a nice little place for itself, sort of like hockey compared to baseball (a lot of people in the late 60's/early 70's thought it was a similar flash in the pan, wont catch on sport, but it did).