Comments Thread For: Judge Rules Against Golden Boy in Its Lawsuit Against Al Haymon

[OnePunch]

And that's the entire point... to state that there is no violation is absurd but to state that he should be prosecuted for it when there has been no harm to the fighters thus far is equally unrealistic.

oh I agree that it appears that no fighters have been harmed so far, but the "so far" is the problem. There IS a conflict of interest when a manager is involved in revenue streams from promotional events. Its plain as day. Now maybe Haymon is exploiting the fighters, or maybe he is not. We dont know. My problem is not with Haymon personally, its with the model. Just imagine for a second it wasnt Al Haymon in the drivers seat here, but instead it was Don King.

[snoopymiller]

oh I agree that it appears that no fighters have been harmed so far, but the "so far" is the problem. There IS a conflict of interest when a manager is involved in revenue streams from promotional events. Its plain as day. Now maybe Haymon is exploiting the fighters, or maybe he is not. We dont know. My problem is not with Haymon personally, its with the model. Just imagine for a second it wasnt Al Haymon in the drivers seat here, but instead it was Don King.

The issue is this... outside of the championship broadcasts on HBO and Showtime... NOBODY is getting paid more than $10k per fight in America. The only promoters that can even afford $10k purses are GBP and TR.

So if Haymon can find a way to pay his stable more than $10k, hasn't he done a good job especially since HBO seems to be relegated to less than 18 dates per year?

[OnePunch]

That explains your perspective...

The focus of making small profits on each show. It's not a horrible business model but it is extremely limiting based on dependence on the top end budgets.

actually most of the small shows I did never turned a profit.Most actually lost a little money. And over the course of a decade I probably put in 200 or 300 grand of my own money. Doing small shows is not something you do for the money.

That being said, its not that I somehow love the status quo. I dont. Boxing is a mess, and its rife with corruption, underhandedness, and incompetence. It does need to be cleaned up. I just think that the model that Haymon is pitching is a situation where the proposed cure is worse than the disease

[snoopymiller]

actually most of the small shows I did never turned a profit. And over the course of a decade I probably put in 200 or 300 grand of my own money. Doing small shows is not something you do for the money.

That being said, its not that I somehow love the status quo. I dont. Boxing is a mess, and its rife with corruption, underhandedness, and incompetence. It does need to be cleaned up. I just think that the model that Haymon is pitching is a situation where the proposed cure is worse than the disease

Well... the disease is HBO's massively dwindling budget and other networks uninterested in investing in boxing.

What alternative do you propose?

[original zero]

Even if you take "potential profit" out of the equation, Haymon guaranteeing a fee to a "promoter" establishes a financial interest in the promotion.

Wrong.

Haymon is negotiating, on behalf of his client, how much money the promoter will keep and how much will be paid to his client. Haymon is then paid a management fee from the fighter's take.

Haymon does not have a financial interest in the promotion beyond his management commission increasing if his fighters are paid more.

We get it. You've presented your fantasy scenario over and over, but that is not what's happening and you've presented NO PROOF and NO EVIDENCE that it is what's happening.

[OnePunch]

Well... the disease is HBO's massively dwindling budget and other networks uninterested in investing in boxing.

What alternative do you propose?

lol we could start 25 new threads talking about all that.

regulatory oversight is probably the main thing boxing is lacking, at least in the US. Some states dont even have commissions, others are so inept or crooked its ridiculous. And I hate to suggest federal oversight, as usually those positions are filled as political payback and not on qualifications, but taking it away from the States is probably the only way to make significant change.

Sanctioning bodies also need much stricter oversight. Too much shenanigans goes on with them

I would also have consequences for poor judging or refereeing such as suspension or termination. Far too often a judge turns in an absurd scorecard but you see that same judge back on tv 2 weeks later.

Accountability at all levels is really what the sport needs. I also wouldnt mind seeing promotional contract completely done away with. It will never happen, but it would be nice. If that happened then promoters could get back to promoting, leaving the talent building to the managers. Thats the way it USED to be before promotional contracts existed. Managers would fund the development of their stable, and promoters would promote. But somewhere along the way most managers quit funding the fighter development, and that burden fell on the promoters, who created promotional contracts as a means of recouping their investments.

Anyways, I could go on and on about all the other things I would change if it were up to me. But it isnt up to me lol

[OnePunch]

Wrong.

Haymon is negotiating, on behalf of his client, how much money the promoter will keep and how much will be paid to his client. Haymon is then paid a management fee from the fighter's take.

Haymon does not have a financial interest in the promotion beyond his management commission increasing if his fighters are paid more.

We get it. You've presented your fantasy scenario over and over, but that is not what's happening and you've presented NO PROOF and NO EVIDENCE that it is what's happening.

wrong. Even if the event was a total bust and only sold 25 tickets, Haymon would still owe the promoter the agreed upon fee, even if said fee was coming out of his own pocket. THAT is a "financial interest". Period.

[original zero]

"I also wouldnt mind seeing promotional contract completely done away with. It will never happen, but it would be nice. If that happened then promoters could get back to promoting, leaving the talent building to the managers. Thats the way it USED to be before promotional contracts existed. Managers would fund the development of their stable, and promoters would promoter. But somewhere along the way most managers quit funding the fighter development, and that burden fell on the promoters, who created promotional contracts as a means of recouping their investments."


so basically what you want is EXACTLY what haymon is doing . . .

[snoopymiller]

lol we could start 25 new threads talking about all that.

regulatory oversight is probably the main thing boxing is lacking, at least in the US. Some states dont even have commissions, others are so inept or crooked its ridiculous. And I hate to suggest federal oversight, as usually those positions are filled as political payback and not on qualifications, but taking it away from the States is probably the only way to make significant change.

Sanctioning bodies also need much stricter oversight. Too much shenanigans goes on with them

I would also have consequences for poor judging or refereeing such as suspension or termination. Far too often a judge turns in an absurd scorecard but you see that same judge back on tv 2 weeks later.

Accountability at all levels is really what the sport needs. I also wouldnt mind seeing promotional contract completely done away with. It will never happen, but it would be nice. If that happened then promoters could get back to promoting, leaving the talent building to the managers. Thats the way it USED to be before promotional contracts existed. Managers would fund the development of their stable, and promoters would promoter. But somewhere along the way most managers quit funding the fighter development, and that burden fell on the promoters, who created promotional contracts as a means of recouping their investments.

Anyways, I could go on and on about all the other things I would change if it were up to me. But it isnt up to me lol

All of this doesn't address the actual issue of finances.

What is your business alternative to a dwindling HBO budget and a lack of network investment in boxing today?

And no... I don't think if all the non business oriented objectives (they are sport/regulatory oriented) you proposed were carried our that HBO would increase their budget or networks and sponsors would suddenly feign interest in the sport.

[original zero]

wrong. Even if the event was a total bust and only sold 25 tickets, Haymon would still owe the promoter the agreed upon fee, even if said fee was coming out of his own pocket. THAT is a "financial interest". Period.

that's only on the time buy events haymon doesn't take a commission on. a manager is allowed to invest money for the purposes of marketing his talent. that does not make him a promoter. it would not violate the ali act for haymon to buy a billboard and put deontay wilder's face on it and it doesn't violate the act for him to buy a time slot on FOX and put deontay's face on it.

but that doesn't mean haymon has a financial interest in the promotion of the boxer because he's only making his money from management fees. he's not profiting from any other aspect of the events.