A journeyman is a guy like Jason Gavern, a man who is lower than D-Class, Eric Molina can be considered to be a Journeyman
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When does a boxer become a journeyman??
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losses have nothing to do with it
A fighter becomes a journeyman, imo, when it becomes absolutely clear that they, regardless of their number of fights, can no longer win fights against top level/contender quality opponents.
Case in point, Bernard Hopkins; once he got beat twice by Chad Dawson, it was clear that Hopkins was heading to that journeyman stage. Careful matchmaking held it off for another two years, but the Kovalev performance made it absolutely clear that Hopkins is basically a journeyman now.
If he'd chosen to continue fighting on (no idea why), it's clear to me that the young bulls (Beterbiev, Gvozdyk, Salamov) and a lot of the solid contenders (Barrera, Pascal, Fonfara, etc) all beat Hopkins clearly.
Mind the matchmaking (Monaghan and Skoglund (doesn't look too good to me, so that would likely mean Hopkins having to travel) are both seemingly beatable) and Hopkins could milk a couple more paydays.
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Originally posted by stephenmc View PostI'm watching the gatti vs ward trilogy at the moment, and micky ward was considered a journeyman.... that's why I started this,
Manny Pacquiao wouldn't be considered a journeyman but has lost 6 fights, but at the same time is amir Khan 2 losses off of entering "journeyman status"
I think it's each to their own really....but when does a boxer hit the point where we all recognise him as a journeyman?
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I think the journeyman is the guy with 6 draws on his record who is fighting the 10-0 prospect....they are the ones who supposedly keep fighters honest and help a promoter determine wether their guy is worth the investment.
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The journeyman may not be able to beat you...but will still be crafty enough to stop you from winning
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Lots of good posts made here. Fights on short notice anywhere & anytime, A guy who was matched hard early & never could get past the C level but could score an upset on any given night. He is brought in as an opponent who can give a prospect or rebuilding contender a good nights work. A guy who can go rounds but isn't a big threat (Fred Kassi or guys who use to be like Gavern or Firtha) to knock anyone out. Then there is the puncher journeyman who has some power but isn't the most skilled guy. He can score the odd upset because he has a puncher's chance. Travis Walker, Joey Abell, Raphael Butler or Alex Leapai are examples. Then there are the guys like Kevin Johnson who early on could not get any good fights because he was a big / long slick boxer who could take a punch & go rounds. He suffered Chris Byrd syndrome. Not many guys wanted to fight him because of his skillset & poor following. It was a big risk low reward fight. Outside the Klitschko fight he couldn't get any fights so he started fighting anyone anywhere. Started taking fights in foreign lands & on short notice. He would do just enough to lose so he could get another fight elsewhere. I remember box nation guys were baffled how he had such a good skillset but refused to use it. They thought he could beat Hammer & Charr but he just went thru the fight in sparring mode. He started travelling around fighting 3-4 times a year & making his 100000-150000 a year. He got to see some of the world while doing it. Edmonton journeyman boxer Ken Lakusta was a 2 time Canadian champion & he shared the ring with Frank Bruno, George Foreman, Tommy Morrison, David Tua, Frans Botha, Larry Holmes, Pierre Coetzer, Razor Ruddock, Michael Dokes, Willie De Witt, Trevor Berbick & Tom Glesby. He was a Jason Gavern type fighter who made a lot of noises & goofed around. He made a million in the sport & opened a good gym here in Edmonton & has been running it since. He was a great journeyman fighter...Last edited by joe strong; 12-26-2016, 12:37 AM.
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To me, when the ship has sailed on you being "top tier", you're a journeyman. Gotta be a notch above a club fighter at least, but could range from a guy who just couldn't reach that next level, to a guy like RJJ who had it, but lost it and won't get it back. When you've written most of your journey in boxing, you're probably a journeyman.
Sigh, Jones Jr makes me sad.
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