When does a boxer become a journeyman??

[stephenmc]

How many losses would you count before you consider a boxer a journeyman?
Theirs been some great fighters through the years who have been classed as "journeyman"
Would you factor in the level of competition and how they lost the fight or what....
In other words, what's your definition of a journeyman?

[mlac]

It's not exclusively based on losses imo. for example dave allen is already a journeyman after 12/13 fights and 2 losses...

As soon as you take the im an opponent type mentality taking on fights at short notice = your a journeyman imo.

[hectari]

A journey man has nothing to do with losses, its basically a fighter who has no home and has to travel to land fights.

Journey men usually get the short end of decisions think Glen Johnson thats the trouble with being a journey man boxer you usually get shafted fighting a hometown fighter, you are brought in as a top contender who they will fix with the judges to lose think Sven Ottke he beat a lot of Journey men by robbery and never fought out of Germany.

Another stigma is that Journey men are paid to lose, many of them will travel and get paid to take a dive.

[juggernaut666]

When you peak with equal losses as wins or close to it or better competition is out there where you arent quite elite but are no walk through...sometimes both and the fight game only a small percent doesnt become them otherwise many top guys would be here. its also subjective but in the end Journyman is the guy getting a payday and he knows he needs an upset win after a long period.USUALLY.

[Eff Pandas]

I don't see a journeyman as exclusively based on L's. I think there are plenty of club show caliber guys with pretty & clean records who are journeymen. I guess there are like two types of journeymen. There are guys who fought poor opposition at the club show level who can be undefeated or a couple L's & who could potentially break up into a higher bracket than journeymen with the right W & there are the contender caliber guys who've just lost too many key fights earlier & now lose to most if not all the promising guys they face.

[stephenmc]

I'm watching the gatti vs ward trilogy at the moment, and micky ward was considered a journeyman.... that's why I started this,
Manny Pacquiao wouldn't be considered a journeyman but has lost 6 fights, but at the same time is amir Khan 2 losses off of entering "journeyman status"

I think it's each to their own really....but when does a boxer hit the point where we all recognise him as a journeyman?

[LoadedWraps]

How many losses would you count before you consider a boxer a journeyman?
Theirs been some great fighters through the years who have been classed as "journeyman"
Would you factor in the level of competition and how they lost the fight or what....
In other words, what's your definition of a journeyman?

A journeyman is basically above a club fighter but below a contender.

p4p king
contender
journeyman
club fighter
prospect





within contender you can be the gatekeeper, a special label for the guy you beat to earn "the shot".

"bums" are in the club fighter category, fringe journeyman.

[stephenmc]

So when would you count a fighter going from club fight or contender to journeyman?

[Eff Pandas]

when does a boxer hit the point where we all recognise him as a journeyman?

Based on the opinions so far it seems more subjective then I'd have thought so I'd guess for near 100% agreement its that point when a guy has some losses (I don't believe there is a definite number of losses) & is splitting his W's & L's fairly evenly or losing to most if not all the top 10 &/or top 20 &/or solid prospect caliber guys he fights.

[LoadedWraps]

So when would you count a fighter going from club fight or contender to journeyman?

club fighters are fighters who can't really get on network fights reliably, so they fight in places like clubs, small arenas, halls, etc hence the name "club fighter". These guys might land on a SOLO BOXEO or ESPN type fight now and then but the majority of their careers need to be seen live or as a recording to be seen.

They serve as opponents for prospects, other club fighters, and journeymen rebuilding off a loss etc.

if you are a prospect, you are considered a prospect until you reach contender status if you never lose or take a loss early and don't lose again.

If you stutter early, you hang in club fighter territory, 12 wins 16 losses type guys. If you lose late, you fall into journeymen territory - 21 wins, 4-8-10 losses type fighter range.

Club fighters are guys who couldn't break past that low level win range without accumulating many losses.

Journeymen are guys who are almost contenders and might even overachieve and win a title and thus become true champions but can't reach top level without several setback losses, and if they never break through this point they serve as opponents for the top guys, as well as stay busy fights, and they compete with guys at their level to try and get a title shot.

Everyone is a prospect until you are about 10 fights in or so and then you can fall into club fighter status and never make it out if you take hard losses you cannot recover from.

If you succeed early and keep active and winning you can basically stretch from prospect to contender and might end up evening out at journeyman status like a Victor Ortiz type cat.

And then there are obviously exceptions to the rule like Shiming, Rigo, Lomchenko, who are on fast track status.