LETS BE HONEST: Andre coWARD will never be a cerified HOF or an ATG if...

[billeau2]

Well to be fair, arturo gatti (rip) did get in, did you not read the title, Ward wouldnt be a CERTIFIED HOF, there will always be a big question mark on his resume.

ATG ? in oakland without a doubt.

As of the moment Ward is a borderline HOF, it is what it is.

Borderline HOF? You thow these attainements around...do you even have any idea how these achievements are determined? HOF is really more based on opinion truth be known, which is why Gatti getting in has put some in conflict...did you know Sylvester Stallone is also in the HOF?

Heres why Ward is an ATG. he didn't just win fights, Ward dominated the competition. To be an ATG one should be a dominant force in their division. So take, for example a fighter like Vitali Klitsko. some people think he was a great fighter actually, some think he was better than his brother (I think he was better than his brother)...

Now lets say for the sake of rhetorical considerations you and I are having this debate...Billeau and mr ******ity, but we are on a different time line, you dig? On this time line, Vitalie BEAT Lewis that night, in a gruelling match. You follow?

Now I will ask you the following: would Vitalie be considered an ATG? I would say NO, because even if he beat lewis that night, Vitalie never dominated his peers, I would even argue that Vlad is not an ATG, but don't want to go there.

Now Ward by comparison dominated his peers during the tournament, he beat world class fighters like Dawson, and he recently defeated Kovalev. That my friend is what makes the difference and the reason why Ward is an ATG. And thanks for the bottle but my preference

BTW people can disagree about the decision in the Kovalev fight, but if it makes sense and a judge saw it that way its not a robbery. It makes sense the way rounds were scored in a Ward victory.

[Mr. Objectivity]

It's also NOT an opinion, it's a fact and the scorecards reflect that. If you want to stay butthurt forever, please, help yourself, but it's really time to move on.

No its not. just like the scorecards doesnt reflect pernell and chavez.

[Mr. Objectivity]

Borderline HOF? You thow these attainements around...do you even have any idea how these achievements are determined? HOF is really more based on opinion truth be known, which is why Gatti getting in has put some in conflict...did you know Sylvester Stallone is also in the HOF?

Heres why Ward is an ATG. he didn't just win fights, Ward dominated the competition. To be an ATG one should be a dominant force in their division. So take, for example a fighter like Vitali Klitsko. some people think he was a great fighter actually, some think he was better than his brother (I think he was better than his brother)...

Now lets say for the sake of rhetorical considerations you and I are having this debate...Billeau and mr ******ity, but we are on a different time line, you dig? On this time line, Vitalie BEAT Lewis that night, in a gruelling match. You follow?

Now I will ask you the following: would Vitalie be considered an ATG? I would say NO, because even if he beat lewis that night, Vitalie never dominated his peers, I would even argue that Vlad is not an ATG, but don't want to go there.

Now Ward by comparison dominated his peers during the tournament, he beat world class fighters like Dawson, and he recently defeated Kovalev. That my friend is what makes the difference and the reason why Ward is an ATG. And thanks for the bottle but my preference

BTW people can disagree about the decision in the Kovalev fight, but if it makes sense and a judge saw it that way its not a robbery. It makes sense the way rounds were scored in a Ward victory.

yaaaaawwwwwn. name calling.
He beat a weight drained Dawkins. please stop now.
And kessler was foul infested.
Sorry that doesnt get you a lock in HOF.
Plus the the *robbery against KOV....definitely not a lock or an ATG.

Stallone was inducted because of rocky, Gatti(RIP) shouldnt be there too, like mcguigan.

It was sentimental pick for gatti.

[Metho_4u]

No its not. just like the scorecards doesnt reflect pernell and chavez.

Come on man, really? There are close fights, and there are robberies, this was simply a close fight. The fact that you are in such denial about it is, well, slightly disturbing. Either way, when a fighter they are a fan of loses, it's a robbery, if it's a fighter they hate that loses, it's justified.

I'll give you a for instance....I'm not a huge fan of Manny, but did Bradley really beat him once? No, he didn't (and I am a fan of Tim)

Did Manny beat Marquez in their 3rd fight? Absolutely not (but only imo though), I'm also not a huge fan of Marquez. In fact, Save for MAYBE their first fight, I thought Manny lost them all...however, I can admit they were simply close fights, like Ward and Kovalev (I am a fan of Ward, but not huge, kovalev I have no real bias either way other than there's been a lot of whining from that side which makes me like him less).

Would I have complained if the fight went to Kovalev by 1 point instead of Ward? No, because close fights are about what each judge sees. I understand however, why Ward was the winner. Had the kd come maybe in Rd 11 or 12, I think it might have been kovalevs fight. What the judges saw was Ward take the kd, and then come back from that with a guy who is known to be a good finisher. What was fresh in the judges minds was the cracking body shots, counters, and Kovalev's obvious reluctance to want anything to do with Ward on the inside (who is supposed to be the physically smaller and weaker opponent).

On a side note, Rd 10 seems pivotal to many in who was the winner, I don't see it mentioned that there was blood coming from the side or all of Kovalev's nose, but I did see it, I think the judges saw it, and that swayed the rd for them. See .40 left in Rd 10.

[Mr. Objectivity]

Come on man, really? There are close fights, and there are robberies, this was simply a close fight. The fact that you are in such denial about it is, well, slightly disturbing. Either way, when a fighter they are a fan of loses, it's a robbery, if it's a fighter they hate that loses, it's justified.

I'll give you a for instance....I'm not a huge fan of Manny, but did Bradley really beat him once? No, he didn't (and I am a fan of Tim)

Did Manny beat Marquez in their 3rd fight? Absolutely not (but only imo though), I'm also not a huge fan of Marquez. In fact, Save for MAYBE their first fight, I thought Manny lost them all...however, I can admit they were simply close fights, like Ward and Kovalev (I am a fan of Ward, but not huge, kovalev I have no real bias either way other than there's been a lot of whining from that side which makes me like him less).

Would I have complained if the fight went to Kovalev by 1 point instead of Ward? No, because close fights are about what each judge sees. I understand however, why Ward was the winner. Had the kd come maybe in Rd 11 or 12, I think it might have been kovalevs fight. What the judges saw was Ward take the kd, and then come back from that with a guy who is known to be a good finisher. What was fresh in the judges minds was the cracking body shots, counters, and Kovalev's obvious reluctance to want anything to do with Ward on the inside (who is supposed to be the physically smaller and weaker opponent).

On a side note, Rd 10 seems pivotal to many in who was the winner, I don't see it mentioned that there was blood coming from the side or all of Kovalev's nose, but I did see it, I think the judges saw it, and that swayed the rd for them. See .40 left in Rd 10.

Cool story man. Ward by decision if youre from OAkland.

[Metho_4u]

Cool story man. Ward by decision if youre from OAkland.

Ok, well you obviously have nothing to debate about then...you have no reasons as to why Kovalev in your opinion should've won. That tells me you're simply a sore loser, and you're reason "Kovalev won just because". He didn't win, the judges said he didn't win, history books will say he didn't win, and no matter what, kovalev is going to have an L on his record that was because Ward beat him. Piss and moan and act like a pu$$y, but it won't change a thing. Get over it.

[Mr. Objectivity]

Ok, well you obviously have nothing to debate about then...you have no reasons as to why Kovalev in your opinion should've won. That tells me you're simply a sore loser, and you're reason "Kovalev won just because". He didn't win, the judges said he didn't win, history books will say he didn't win, and no matter what, kovalev is going to have an L on his record that was because Ward beat him. Piss and moan and act like a pu$$y, but it won't change a thing. Get over it.

Those arent facts those are your bias interpretation of the fight.

Your previous argument was.;. Its supposed to be a fact because the score cards says so. I gave you pernell and JCC and you stuttered and started name calling....again cool; story.

[Metho_4u]

Those arent facts those are your bias interpretation of the fight.

Your previous argument was.;. Its supposed to be a fact because the score cards says so. I gave you pernell and JCC and you stuttered and started name calling....again cool; story.

I stuttered? No, you're mistaken. What I did was call you on your bs, and the fact that you have absolutely no argument...point the finger at me all you want though. I'm getting a good laugh.

[Rome-By-Ko]

......If he ducks an immediate rematch with Kovalev. ward seems to going the mayweather/ducking path. SAD.

Ward is clearly a HOF already.. ATG he needs more wins, but clearly a HOF..

[Mr. Objectivity]

Ward is clearly a HOF already.. ATG he needs more wins, but clearly a HOF..

you think dawson and kessler were legit wins?