Anyone really believe Floyd is remotely close to being TBE ?

[Thraxox]

See, you just did it again. You posted in the first half of their careers there is no denying that Manny Pac wins by a mile. I respond by correctly pointing out Manny had losses and that those count as well, to refute that. Then you ask are we really going to count those losses.

I understand he wasn't prime. My only point is the losses are still real and should be factored into the equation. Do you agree?

How did you come across them then if they are not on the internet? Have you traveled to Russia, Germany, Spain, Mexico etc. etc.?

Yes there is objectivity. You will never please everyone and get everyone to agree but you want your rankings to be respected. When you are asked to rank in a professional setting based on a set of criteria (like Cliff does here) you risk losing your credibility if all you do is rank your favorites.

Floyd always finishes ahead of Manny in these scenarios. That has to count for something.

"How do you rank them when they don't run across in the internet." Maybe you should read more because I said they aren't mainly found in front of the cover because foreign journalism is mainly behind the U.S in terms of cover. So it is hard to find one, but you can found it on youtube if you look into enough. And you can also look in to foreign T.V in mexico and spain and germany when they talk about boxing history.


Basing a criteria that has no direct bias in nationality should be considered and floyd already has the advantage. Why ask officials only in America when there are other countries?
I could also ask you how many of these boxing analist rank mayweather ahead of Pac or inside top 10.


Do you think Floyd is ahead of Manny despite the fact that Manny has the better resume, accomplished more, accomplished feats that no one in the boxing world has ever accomplished.

What is your criteria?

What did Floyd accomplished inside boxing?
Undefeated Record 49-0 surpassed by Ricardo Lopez
Lineal Champ at 4 weight classes, equaled by Manny Pacquiao and Henry Armstrong.
Champion in Five Divisions surpassed by Oscar Dela Hoya and Manny PAcquiao
No ATG prime in their best weight class and Manny has three

What did Pacquiao accomplished?
8 division champion (Never been done before)
7 division champion (Never been done before)
The only flyweight to win a belt in Lightweight, Lightwelterweight, Welterweight and Jr. Middleweight.
Fought Three ATG mexicans in their prime and best weight class.
One of the most celebrated Careers in boxing.
Lineal Champ at 4 weight classes equaled by Mayweather and Henry Armstrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a6hAy6jJ4E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWEXd_Qa9QI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPVqpQKen2k

this is an unbiased analysis from a BLACK analist and trainer of boxing and MMA who knows his history.

[Canelo and GGG]

Ok. I think losses have to count to a degree. Floyd is about the same size as well, he is just taller and has a longer reach.

Raheem destroyed Erik and ended Morales run as a top fighter. He was much more than a mere nemesis.

My only real complaint is uneven comparisons. IMO, if a win against a dude coming off a KO loss diminshes the win in 1 case, it should be in every case.

For me it dont diminshes anything,Floyd win over Pac is as good as i would be if JMM didnt KO him.

"Floyd is about the same size as well, he is just taller and has a longer reach." come on Dunn ,Just longer reach?reach made this fight ,reach is everything if you are very skillfull.

Only 3 fighters beated prime Morales,MAB ,Raheem,Pacman .

I dont count this loses on Manny resume,when he was starving kid,who learned hard way,this loses make him even greater,cuse he came back like a champ,it doesnt matter if you lose but if you come back strong,i count every other lose like:Morales one,JMM and Bradley(controversial),and Floyd ofc.

Floyd had Amateur careere,and stept with competition level after level,Manny learned hard way,thats fact,they both are Great,ranking them P4P is hard doe.

[The Big Dunn]

"How do you rank them when they don't run across in the internet." Maybe you should read more because I said they aren't mainly found in front of the cover because foreign journalism is mainly behind the U.S in terms of cover. So it is hard to find one, but you can found it on youtube if you look into enough. And you can also look in to foreign T.V in mexico and spain and germany when they talk about boxing history.


Basing a criteria that has no direct bias in nationality should be considered and floyd already has the advantage. Why ask officials only in America when there are other countries?
I could also ask you how many of these boxing analist rank mayweather ahead of Pac or inside top 10.


Do you think Floyd is ahead of Manny despite the fact that Manny has the better resume, accomplished more, accomplished feats that no one in the boxing world has ever accomplished.

What is your criteria?

What did Floyd accomplished inside boxing?
Undefeated Record 49-0 surpassed by Ricardo Lopez
Lineal Champ at 4 weight classes, equaled by Manny Pacquiao and Henry Armstrong.
Champion in Five Divisions surpassed by Oscar Dela Hoya and Manny PAcquiao
No ATG prime in their best weight class and Manny has three

What did Pacquiao accomplished?
8 division champion (Never been done before)
7 division champion (Never been done before)
The only flyweight to win a belt in Lightweight, Lightwelterweight, Welterweight and Jr. Middleweight.
Fought Three ATG mexicans in their prime and best weight class.
One of the most celebrated Careers in boxing.
Lineal Champ at 4 weight classes equaled by Mayweather and Henry Armstrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a6hAy6jJ4E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWEXd_Qa9QI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPVqpQKen2k

this is an unbiased analysis from a BLACK analist and trainer of boxing and MMA who knows his history.

These polls include non Americans as I pointed out. They always list voters and often the country of origin as well. I don't think its fair to use the "they are American" knowing this fact.

I think Floyd has the better resume myself. Resume isn't just a name, its when you fought them For instance, Erik Morales. manny beat him after he was destroyed by Zahir Raheem. After raheem, erik is 2-7. Is it fair to treat that win as a prime ATG win?

As to the accomplishments, that was my point earlier. Do you just count it at face value or do you examine it the way you have Floyd's accomplishments?

why capitalize black? Why does the race of the person doing the analysis matter?

[Thraxox]

These polls include non Americans as I pointed out. They always list voters and often the country of origin as well. I don't think its fair to use the "they are American" knowing this fact.

I think Floyd has the better resume myself. Resume isn't just a name, its when you fought them For instance, Erik Morales. manny beat him after he was destroyed by Zahir Raheem. After raheem, erik is 2-7. Is it fair to treat that win as a prime ATG win?

As to the accomplishments, that was my point earlier. Do you just count it at face value or do you examine it the way you have Floyd's accomplishments?

why capitalize black? Why does the race of the person doing the analysis matter?

Look we are just arguing into a circle and would never get on to a conclusion and I think it is just best that we'll put this to a close, because I'm going to get some sleep.

[The Big Dunn]

For me it dont diminshes anything,Floyd win over Pac is as good as i would be if JMM didnt KO him.

"Floyd is about the same size as well, he is just taller and has a longer reach." come on Dunn ,Just longer reach?reach made this fight ,reach is everything if you are very skillfull.

Only 3 fighters beated prime Morales,MAB ,Raheem,Pacman .

I dont count this loses on Manny resume,when he was starving kid,who learned hard way,this loses make him even greater,cuse he came back like a champ,it doesnt matter if you lose but if you come back strong,i count every other lose like:Morales one,JMM and Bradley(controversial),and Floyd ofc.

Floyd had Amateur careere,and stept with competition level after level,Manny learned hard way,thats fact,they both are Great,ranking them P4P is hard doe.

Reach only matters if you know how to use it effectively. Margs had a longer reach as well. reach advantage was the main reason I felt Floyd would always beat Manny.

True. is the Morales MAB defeated the same as the one Manny defeated? If thats so, then Danny garcia would desrve much more credit for beating Erik.

if coming back from losses makes you greater, then losses have to count, otherwise someone who is undefeated never gets the chance to elevate themselves. It's almost as if you are suggesting losing a few times is better than never losing.

[The Big Dunn]

Look we are just arguing into a circle and would never get on to a conclusion and I think it is just best that we'll put this to a close, because I'm going to get some sleep.

Ok, I thought we had a good discussion.

[Canelo and GGG]

Reach only matters if you know how to use it effectively. Margs had a longer reach as well. reach advantage was the main reason I felt Floyd would always beat Manny.

True. is the Morales MAB defeated the same as the one Manny defeated? If thats so, then Danny garcia would desrve much more credit for beating Erik.

if coming back from losses makes you greater, then losses have to count, otherwise someone who is undefeated never gets the chance to elevate themselves. It's almost as if you are suggesting losing a few times is better than never losing.

I think it is i would love to see how Floyd would move on if Judges gave win to Castillio or Oscar.Never loseing mean no almost no rematches ,great trylogis and battles.

when you ask if Morales beaten by MAB was same as this from manny fight,probably no years past but was he worst?that is speculation,Morales fought Manny in superfeather,and Garcia fought him in 140 after Pac and Raheem did damage,i think that Manny in rematches did more damage then Raheem.By this standards you gave here on Morales ,Floyd should get no credit for Pac who was beaten 5 times before and wwas in some wars.It doesnt matter for me,if someone would be shot to death before fight i wouldnt cout it Ofc but it wasnt case in Morales pac 2.Now Pac man vs Oscar was some **** and exhibition of a fight.

I said if you are skill full,and Floyd is,he is just to big for Pacman and reach advatage is big.you saw how JMM looked in Floyd fight?like a dwarf,and in Pac fight they wwas about same size.

we could pick apart theyr resumes like,do Cotto beaten by Margo and Pac is same on Floyd resume as on Pac?and its all speculation,for me Morales looked good in 2nd pac fight.as for never loseing,its harder to fight someone 4 or 3 times then 1,if Floyd had 4 matches with Pacman or Cotto from 2009 to 2015 its hard to think he would have 0 or fought Mosley earlier,even if he would catch L or 2 ,but had more fights and memories ,he would be greater imo.

Floyd criticizing manny for rematches is funny,cuse rematches are hardest fights ,i regret that both of them didnt make more rematches with some ppl but **** happens.

as for loses i said witch one counts for me on his resume and which not.only my opinion doe

[TripleGFightFan]

This thread's translation = To all of you black men who think your great because of floyd's greatness get in here...so I can tear you down by tearing your hero down...thus reducing your confidence and race's confidence to said nil...why does it bother you if it is not your opinion? because opinions in numbers unchallenged become facts...can't have a group of confident floydites running across america now can we?...this boxing shit is deeper than rap...deeper than the ring itself...

[The Big Dunn]

I think it is i would love to see how Floyd would move on if Judges gave win to Castillio or Oscar.Never loseing mean no almost no rematches ,great trylogis and battles.

when you ask if Morales beaten by MAB was same as this from manny fight,probably no years past but was he worst?that is speculation,Morales fought Manny in superfeather,and Garcia fought him in 140 after Pac and Raheem did damage,i think that Manny in rematches did more damage then Raheem.By this standards you gave here on Morales ,Floyd should get no credit for Pac who was beaten 5 times before and wwas in some wars.It doesnt matter for me,if someone would be shot to death before fight i wouldnt cout it Ofc but it wasnt case in Morales pac 2.Now Pac man vs Oscar was some **** and exhibition of a fight.

I said if you are skill full,and Floyd is,he is just to big for Pacman and reach advatage is big.you saw how JMM looked in Floyd fight?like a dwarf,and in Pac fight they wwas about same size.

we could pick apart theyr resumes like,do Cotto beaten by Margo and Pac is same on Floyd resume as on Pac?and its all speculation,for me Morales looked good in 2nd pac fight.as for never loseing,its harder to fight someone 4 or 3 times then 1,if Floyd had 4 matches with Pacman or Cotto from 2009 to 2015 its hard to think he would have 0 or fought Mosley earlier,even if he would catch L or 2 ,but had more fights and memories ,he would be greater imo.

Floyd criticizing manny for rematches is funny,cuse rematches are hardest fights ,i regret that both of them didnt make more rematches with some ppl but **** happens.

as for loses i said witch one counts for me on his resume and which not.only my opinion doe

He did rematch Catillo and won again, same as Maidana. I understand but again you are counting it against someone that they never won. That isn't right.

It's not my standard. I asked based on the facts. The people that don't give Floyd credit cite Manny's history. I'm asking does the same apply to Manny's win over Morales?

Manny has defeated bigger guys with longer reach. He just couldn't beat Floyd.

All those men refused to fight Floyd during that period as you are aware. SO if you think they would win, why did they opt not to fight him?

Its really unfair to hold their decisions against Floyd's career.

I think he criticized unnecessary rematches. Like Bradley and the 4th JMM fight.

[Canelo and GGG]

He did rematch Catillo and won again, same as Maidana. I understand but again you are counting it against someone that they never won. That isn't right.

It's not my standard. I asked based on the facts. The people that don't give Floyd credit cite Manny's history. I'm asking does the same apply to Manny's win over Morales?

Manny has defeated bigger guys with longer reach. He just couldn't beat Floyd.

All those men refused to fight Floyd during that period as you are aware. SO if you think they would win, why did they opt not to fight him?

Its really unfair to hold their decisions against Floyd's career.

I think he criticized unnecessary rematches. Like Bradley and the 4th JMM fight.

Agree on Bradley but JMM rematch was good ,all 4 fights was competetive and 3rd was controversial.

Yea i wrote in my last post like i would like Floyd to lose,its not a case.but Fighters with Loses have more colorfull Careeres ,like Holyfield ,he is rated very high,he fought some monsters in very competetive era.He lost and won some,lots of memorables fifghts from him,and Floyd have none imo and thats what i dont like about his careere(i know its not his foult in some cases).Cotto 2 and Punisher or Lara was fights i wanted to see most.

i would love to see Cotto Floyd 2 ,just my dream,i think Cotto had idea how to fight Floyd but he wwas to Chinny ,Cotto from Canelo fight wwas tough and had good stamina even after good bodyshots (floyd dont punch to the body)

anyway both had great careeres ,im not holding it ageinst Floyd his great fighter but i would like to see him in more matches

Just like i would like to see Morales-Hamed for example.

In Terms of Resume we need to wait couple of years,and then check How many HoFers and champs they faced and theyr record against this opponets.

they cant top Greb or SRR but they can compite with each other.

Have a good day sir.