was Roberto Duran really that great?

[Panamaniac]

...You left out Benitez who he lost to as well, and if you go on further down the list you see the Leonards, Haglers,,then further hearns and Benitez. The only thing that held ray from being on these list is simply his detached retina shortened Career, and still after 40 fights he is generally regarded in the top twenty. Which is flat out unbelievable...

I left out Benitez because he is no where near the calibre of Hearns, Leonard and Hagler, 3/4 of the so-called "Fabulous Four" rivalry who dominated the fight game back in the 80's.

The point I was trying to drive home is this: Despite losses to those three, despite "no mas", despite your parsing of his record, Duran's natural skills and the excitement he brought to the ring, so far exceeds his negatives, that he his ranked among boxing's elite way ahead of his most celebrated victors.

[Nostromo]

Was Roberto Duran really THAT great?

For a definative answer to that question, I propose the following test: On the given premise that Duran is in the upper echelon (top 10) of all time greats, if you can think of any boxer who fought during his prime or since, whom you would place in that category, he wasn't that great. If you can't, then he was.

[pelonxsoldier28]

duran is overrated..just like tyson...ppl are so in love with ppl who like to brawl..and have no respect for boxers like roy jones..its sad

as always , you're an idiot, stop drinking so much. you've drank yourself ******ed

[Wiley Hyena]

IMO Duran is no where near a Robinson and Ali who dominated Great fighters over a long period of time. Duran did not do that. He dominated okay fighters, and even good fighters at lightweight, but when he stepped up as Robinson did at higher weights he ******, plain and simple.

"Your boy) Sugar Ray Leonard (who beat him twice), Tommy Hearns (who KO'd him cold), Marvin Hagler (who barely beat him) are no where close to that elite top 10."

You left out Benitez who he lost to as well, and if you go on further down the list you see the Leonards, Haglers,,then further hearns and Benitez. The only thing that held ray from being on these list is simply his detached retina shortened Career, and still after 40 fights he is generally regarded in the top twenty. Which is flat out unbelievable.

I agree with Duran being in the top 10, but it is funny NO ONE, addresses the 23 fighters on his resume that have records similar to 1-4, or 10-11, after he fought. The Ray Leonards of the world chose not to padd their record with these bums. Had Duran elected to not fight these types of bums your looking at a fighter with a record more along the line of 47-1.

Then look at his fights when he first stared. No everyone fights bums them...but how many fights does ne need to take vs fighters with 0-0 records. I counted 10 of em..some deep into his career..How about Ariel Cruz,,0-13.......0 AND FREAKING 13. Give me a break. You guys hype him up to be sooooooo great, but are quiet as Lionel Richie when your asked to defend the 40...(Count em) or fights on his resume that quit frankly he should be put in jail for child abuse on. What a disgrace to boxing for a champion like Duran to step in the ring vs a fighter 0-13, and count it towards his professional record. Matches like that are like training, where your sparring with a up and comer and trying to help him out, you don't count that towards your official record.

Before you all say others do it....Look at Ray Leonards career, and Mayweathers resume, then Roy Jones,,and point out where those type of fighters are at.....They are not there!

Don't forget that Duran also took on HAGLER at middleweight too, and for the first time in Hagler's career took Hagler the distance....and almost won that fight on points. Astounding.

Don't forget that Duran is ranked #5 of Ring Mag's list of All Time Greatest Boxers. Don't forget about that. There's a voice of authority. "Wpink's" opinion pales in comparison with that.

[pelonxsoldier28]

People just want to hate, plain and simple. Mayeather gets in the ring every time with a top fighter. I dont like him either, he is very disrespectful, but the truth is, he simply the best pound per pound fighter to day.

If he and Duran had fought, he would easily beat duran and drive Duran nuts because Duran and him would but heads seriously. He can box like, ray, move like ray, had speed like ray, but better defense than ray. You see what happened when duran had to deal with Ray when Ray wanted to box him...Read it for yourself in Durans own words...Hands of Stone, page 204...He became frusterated and quite. He was in good shape , no cramps..as was falsly reported.....

At 135 Mayweather was a monster too. He destoryed fighters, and unlike some he did not pad his resume wiht fights that had no reason to be signed. From the time he fought Angel Manfredy he pretty much alwasy stepped in the ring with a top notch opponent. However, there are those that simply want to bad mouth him etc.... Give him his due. Regardless of where you rank him pound per pound,,,he dominated lightweight,dropped Correless 6 times..a great fighter too...Dropped him 6 times...Correles at the time ws 33-0 with 28 kos...killing people...They were calling it the lightweight hearns, vs leonard.

Mayweather has fought the true champs at each division and beaten them soundly....There were haters that were saying he would get beaten by Gotti..he fought gotti n his own hometown and destroyed him..IN HIS OWN HOMETOWN. He moved up fought Judah,,when everyone was hating on him for that,,and said he should the man that beat judah,,,the real champion....In the mean time some nobody cmes down form 4 ass whippings at jr middle and beats no one and calls out Mayweather,,,and offeres him 8 mil to fight...Why would Mayweathr fight Margerito or dorito or whatever his name is...for 8 mil whn he has proved nothing..when he can get the belt for 8 mil vs Baldimir.... he then moves up to 154,,,as Dlh thought this would be to his benefit..fought him on the latino holiday, in vegas, with dlh ring size and gloves he wanted, and DLH callng all the shots..and beat him...He has called out Mosley for a long time, but all he got was my tooth is hurting....He called to Cotto 2 years ago, but Cotto's camp said he was not ready to fight mayweather....He wanted hatton previously but Hatton needed time to get ready....Now they are fighting...

What in the hell is the man supposed to do? He is fightint everyone he should, that makes sound business sense, beating them.

you sound like you're talking without thinking, that or you hav'nt been a fight fan for to many years. nobody beats duran at lightweight, then or now. duran would have ran over and squashed mayweathers ass.

[Wiley Hyena]

you sound like you're talking without thinking, that or you hav'nt been a fight fan for to many years. nobody beats duran at lightweight, then or now. duran would have ran over and squashed mayweathers ass.

No doubt..........

[SkillspayBills]

No doubt..........

Why is it that if they don't agree with your distorted views they don't know what they are thinking. Get in the real world gramps, your medication isn't going to take itself.

[Wiley Hyena]

Why is it that if they don't agree with your distorted views they don't know what they are thinking. Get in the real world gramps, your medication isn't going to take itself.

How are views that Duran is a great fighter (which are similar to Ring Mag's views) "distorted?"

For being such a self possessed guy and so full of boxing knowledge, you are dangerously letting your ignorance show when you imply that Duran is overrated. lol

[BennyST]

Wpink, I don't want to bother with a large argument (you give great factual info) nor am I nuthugging Duran. But, I really do have to disagree with you stating that up to 34 years old Duran was in his prime. Boxers have different primes due to the way they live, how they treat their bodies, how they fight etc etc.

Mayweather (who I personally think is brilliant: what defense!) is in his prime at 30 in higher weights. He is very nearly as fast, sharp, and fit as he has always been. Leonard also had a great prime lasting well into his early thirties. Though he dropped off quite suddenly around his mid to late thirties when losing to Hearns, beating Duran, L Norris and KO to 'Macho' (though he was obviously much older by this stage).

Anyway, if you compare fights in different stages of fighters careers you can see if they have slipped much, gotten better, stayed the same. You state that Duran was in his prime until his mid thirties. Much of this argument seems to be based on various fighters primes' and comparable fights at different weights and how they did at those various stages. Can you see the difference in his fighting Hagler to his fighting De Jesus? Or his win against Moore to his win against Lampkin? What about when he chased the fleet footed boxer (22-0) Bizzaro around for fourteen rounds before finally catching him to get a KO against his awful performance with Benitez in which he was horribly gassed and tired well before even the 12th round?

What I want to know is can you see a difference when he last fought a very strong, hard fifteen rounds (1st Leonard) to just after when he was never able to do the same thing? That is what I would call 'out of prime'.

I'm not making excuses for his losses after thirty. I want to know why you think he was still in his prime after 29 years of age? Is it just because Mayweather is still in his prime at that age? Look at a Mayweather tape of now compared to three years ago. He is very much the same fighter. Look at a Duran tape of when he was early thirties then go back to 27/28/29 years old. He is so far removed from what he was I am just a bit confused as to how you say he is still in his prime. If you compare how far they dropped in skill, speed, stamina etc. then you could very well say that Leonard lost three times in his prime. Once to Duran, once to Hearns (well, you know what I mean about Hearns) and once to Norris. After all his skill, speed, stamina and fitness probably dropped less between 28 and 35 than did Durans between those ages.

Now this is a very subjective exercise. With everything else about Duran I very nearly agree with you and you bring up some good points. Yes, he fought some bums to keep busy and active and bring up some skills he needed. He also fought many more great fighters than you seem to think (The aforementioned Bizzarou, Hector Thompson: one of the best Aussie lightweight champs ever, very vicious, Viruet: who you never mention; great swift boxer. Duran beat him twice. He did the same thing Leonard did, made fun of Duran, taunted him, mocked him. Duran was very fast at LW though and was able to keep up and slip his jab to get on the inside and beat him in exchanges, nor did he get frustrated, Vilomar Fernandez: also a great fighter, Lampkin.). I'm getting off track here though. On this subject though I don't see how you can say what you do without it applying to everyone.

Sure, Duran lost to guys like Benitez, Hagler, Hearns (who was just too big: Duran was never going to beat him) and Leonard. I do believe though if Duran was in shape like he was in his twenties and able to go fifteen hard rounds in his thirties, much as Mayweather is able to do now, he would not have lost to many of the people he did lose to. I think he certainly would've beaten Benitez, maybe even Hagler... he just gassed out so much against them, but if he was quicker with more endurance... he was doing a great job countering Hagler. Close until the last five rounds.

In answer to the initial question: I think he can be over-rated but I also think he really was that great. As much for his true fire and passion and very human mistakes as for his accomplishments and incredible fighting skills.

[The Noose]

I just watched Duran-Barkley........Roberto Duran was a phenom.

At the age of 37, 20 years after winning the lightweight title, he becomes Middleweight champion.

He was technically outstanding, and IMO had possibly the greatest fighting instincts ive ever seen.