Are GGG's opponents pricing themselves out or are they believing the GGG hype?

[Motorcity Cobra]

why is this so hard for people to understand? Saunders brings a UK ppv audience. Jacobs does not.

Sure, one could argue that Saunders UK appeal is less than Brook, but it doesnt matter. If they only generate a few million bucks on UK ppv, that is enough to bridge the gap and pay Saunders. Jacobs brings no such audience, and truth be told GGG actually draws better in NY than Jacobs does.

But putting all that aside, Saunders has the leverage of having the last belt that GGG wants. Again, Jacobs has no such leverage. Jacobs is just another mando challenger, perhaps a bit more recognizable than Wade, but in reality not some blockbuster superstar, and certainly no shot-caller.

You cannot compare Saunders and Jacobs because their scenarios are different on every level

Saunders doesn't offer PPV if he comes over here. The time difference is to great. That fight would come on at like 5am over there. I would hope K2 wouldnt try to put Saunders/Ggg on PPV but not GGG/Jacobs. If GGG goes over there Frank Warren would be paying GGG just like Matchroom.

Now that Canelo is moving to to MW he has first dibs on the Saunders fight and your better believe Saunders is gonna hold onto that belt until Canelo decides what he's going to do.

GGG/Jacobs is the bigger fight on US soil and if GGG goes over there he'd be getting paid by Saunders promoter

[The Big Dunn]

why is this so hard for people to understand? Saunders brings a UK ppv audience. Jacobs does not.

Sure, one could argue that Saunders UK appeal is less than Brook, but it doesnt matter. If they only generate a few million bucks on UK ppv, that is enough to bridge the gap and pay Saunders. Jacobs brings no such audience, and truth be told GGG actually draws better in NY than Jacobs does.

But putting all that aside, Saunders has the leverage of having the last belt that GGG wants. Again, Jacobs has no such leverage. Jacobs is just another mando challenger, perhaps a bit more recognizable than Wade, but in reality not some blockbuster superstar, and certainly no shot-caller.

You cannot compare Saunders and Jacobs because their scenarios are different on every level

I don't think its fair when you over estimate the audience that BJS brings. What in BJS career suggest the fight would yield millions in PPV in England?

I am not suggesting GGG doesn't fill seats more than Jacobs. The question is will the seat be filled when priced to turn a profit and pay both fighters what they expect.

The other difference is the WBA ordered GGG and Jacobs to fight. Failure to do so could mean the belt becomes vacant.

BJS has a belt GGG wants, GGG has a belt that he must defend against Jacobs. They are not similar situations, I agree. Each has a different type of leverage they can use to get the purse they want.

[OnePunch]

I don't think its fair when you over estimate the audience that BJS brings. What in BJS career suggest the fight would yield millions in PPV in England?

I am not suggesting GGG doesn't fill seats more than Jacobs. The question is will the seat be filled when priced to turn a profit and pay both fighters what they expect.

The other difference is the WBA ordered GGG and Jacobs to fight. Failure to do so could mean the belt becomes vacant.

BJS has a belt GGG wants, GGG has a belt that he must defend against Jacobs. They are not similar situations, I agree. Each has a different type of leverage they can use to get the purse they want.

from all known reports on this issue, it is NOT the GGG camp that has a problem with the purse bid split. So I'm not sure what "leverage" Jacobs has, if he is unwilling to fight at the designated 75-25 split and would possibly vacate. (speculation, yes, but would not be surprising)

[Scipio2009]

This is much how I see it. I believe in most cases the percentage splits Golovkin offers are generally what would be considered 'fair' according to the relative status of Golovkin and his opponents, it's just that the absolute $ figures aren't that great, certainly not what top fighters might expect from entering a fight with a guy that's supposed to be some kind of superstar. As you point out though, Golovkins reputation and the three straps make him a high reward proposition, you would have thought more top guys might want to take the risk, whereas what we're actually getting is a succession of guys who really don't have much to lose.

It's a bit of a dilemma for team GGG though, given that HBO don't seem willing or able to stump up the big purses, how much are the willing to cut into GGGs purses in order to lure 'top' opponents? Specially when the 'top' guys at MW aren't really guys who are likely to further GGGs career that much anyway? Guess that's for them to figure out, I'd hope they would at least pony up for Saunders and the last strap but do they then run into the trap of having to overpay opponents time in, time out? There is no right or wrong answer, but as a fan of the good fights I sure as fuck hope they come up with something.

Like you say though. Nothing new in this situation.

I think that Main Events/Kovalev were idiots for doing it, but the gave Bernard Hopkins 75% of the pot to get him in the ring, while also giving Jean Pascal 45% of the pot to fight for a distinction that would've only entitled Kovalev to a 25% share on a fight with Adonis Stevenson.

Golovkin is 34 years old, and his camp seems unwilling to give up a penny of the current money to gird for a possible bigger future payday.

Billy Joe Saunders is literally the one fight where, if Golovkin was really 'bout that action, you could earnestly see Golovkin taking the short money to set the stage to become the unified/undisputed middleweight champion.

$3m to Saunders (figure out what the UK TV rights are worth, give that to Warren/Saunders, and fill in the rest with HBO money), with Golovkin getting his own pay from what they can generate on the live event, the German TV, the rest of the international TV, and whatever is left from the HBO TV money.

You make him the only target for anyone at 160lbs, and you go from there.

[_Maxi]

How is it gonna do a million PPV when the Cotto fight didn't do a million? Cotto is an established star with PPV double, triple, quadruple the numbers GGG has done. This is what I'm talking about when i say hype. His skills aren't hyped, he's the real deal. His popularity of hyped. He's not as big as people think is

Why would Oscar offer a flat fee? I understand offering 75-25, 80-20, but a flat fee? how can you defend that? (I think it should be 65-35).

Well Canelo brings 300k people at least on PPV. Golovkin brings at least 100k. So you have a minimum of 400k. From there, we can discuss it we think it will make 600k or 1 million, but it's the biggest fight in boxing now, yes or not?

[Scipio2009]

How much do you think these fights will generate?? Lmao you think GGG vs Jacobs will generate 10m?

Will depend on how aggressively they price the tickets tbh; $3m at the live gate at Barclays Center, BoxNation paying up for the UK TV rights (in anticipation of a possible Billy Joe Saunders fight in 2017), the worth of the German TV rights, the value of the US TV rights with HBO/Showtime going at it, and the other revenues (event sponsors, merch, the rest of the international TV, etc) and it's not like the fight is going to do just $1m either.

Whether the number gets to $10m will be based on how the actual event gets put together.

[The Big Dunn]

from all known reports on this issue, it is NOT the GGG camp that has a problem with the purse bid split. So I'm not sure what "leverage" Jacobs has, if he is unwilling to fight at the designated 75-25 split and would possibly vacate. (speculation, yes, but would not be surprising)

It comes down to who wins the bid. I don't see why HBO would forbid GGG to fight Jacobs on another network if a Haymon affiliated promoter wins the bid. Its a very winnable fight for GGG and it satisfies the WBA requirement.

Now if HBO blocks him, then he may be forced to vacate. Doesn't mean he couldn't get it back later. This is where Jacobs does have leverage-getting a deal done before a purse bid takes all this out of the equation.

[Citizen Koba]

I think that Main Events/Kovalev were idiots for doing it, but the gave Bernard Hopkins 75% of the pot to get him in the ring, while also giving Jean Pascal 45% of the pot to fight for a distinction that would've only entitled Kovalev to a 25% share on a fight with Adonis Stevenson.

Golovkin is 34 years old, and his camp seems unwilling to give up a penny of the current money to gird for a possible bigger future payday.

Billy Joe Saunders is literally the one fight where, if Golovkin was really 'bout that action, you could earnestly see Golovkin taking the short money to set the stage to become the unified/undisputed middleweight champion.

$3m to Saunders (figure out what the UK TV rights are worth, give that to Warren/Saunders, and fill in the rest with HBO money), with Golovkin getting his own pay from what they can generate on the live event, the German TV, the rest of the international TV, and whatever is left from the HBO TV money.

You make him the only target for anyone at 160lbs, and you go from there.

Yeah, the Kovalev example is the one I always think of when considering Golovkin's situation. Granted the situations are somewhat different but it does show what can happen if the right sacrifices are made. I do think that Golovkin should be willing to offer Saunders a good cut - even to 50% if necessary since his stated goal is unification even though no-one would argue that Saunders normal market value would be close to that.

But yeah. I think that last has been their goal from the start. Get a stranglehold on 160 and then in theory at least the fights will come. Can't say it's particularly satisfying as a fan though.

[Scipio2009]

why is this so hard for people to understand? Saunders brings a UK ppv audience. Jacobs does not.

Sure, one could argue that Saunders UK appeal is less than Brook, but it doesnt matter. If they only generate a few million bucks on UK ppv, that is enough to bridge the gap and pay Saunders. Jacobs brings no such audience, and truth be told GGG actually draws better in NY than Jacobs does.

But putting all that aside, Saunders has the leverage of having the last belt that GGG wants. Again, Jacobs has no such leverage. Jacobs is just another mando challenger, perhaps a bit more recognizable than Wade, but in reality not some blockbuster superstar, and certainly no shot-caller.

You cannot compare Saunders and Jacobs because their scenarios are different on every level

BoxNation only recently got into the PPV business (with Sky Sports having had an exclusive deal with Matchroom Sport for some time now, I'd like for someone to point to the last time that Sky put on a PPV show that didn't involve Matchroom Sport) so that's a bit different.

Beyond that, the leverage that Daniel Jacobs has is that, if he and his camp actually want the fight, Golovkin has to fight him (in a situation where Jacobs' camp can set their own conditions if their pockets are deep enough).

With the pressure point of literally putting Golovkin's business relationship with HBO in the lurch, logic would tell you that there's a price premium that should be expected to not have that messed with. Call it what you want to call it.

There's no pressure to fight Billy Joe Saunders

[Scipio2009]

Then perhaps you could explain something. Im assuming that Golden Boy is not in the charity business, so please give me a reason they would want to lock in an 8 figure fee a YEAR in advance, if they didnt think it was to their benefit?

possibly to set the costs for the event ahead of time; with the price of bringing Golovkin in already esablished, Golden Boy can go into the talks with Jerry Jones, basically knowing what type of site fee they would need to make things work out well for them, before then also heading out to NYC to put out the feelers to see what taking the fight there would be worth (unsure if Las Vegas would actually have monster interest in hosting Alvarez-Golovkin).

with a deal in hand, Golden Boy can then use Alvarez's next two fights (rumors are that Alvarez is looking to fight again Feb 2017 and May 2017, before the September fight), to stoke the fever for Alvarez-Golovkin (maxing out Golden Boy's chance to actually make their own money on the back end).

The cost is a bit rich, but Golovkin getting $10m (plus the German TV), the costs of the event being carried by Golden Boy, and Alvarez and Oscar splitting the take, after paying all costs, 80/20 (with Alvarez keeping the Mexican TV), leaves Golden Boy in a pretty safe spot, while also positioning things for continued big-time business were Alvarez to win the fight.

the longer it takes to lock in value, the more the financial risk on the fight becomes to Golden Boy.