Why is it when people mention GGG moving up Hagler is brought up?

[The Big Dunn]

It cant be denied that there is a certain group of posters who will never appreciate GGG simply due to his skin tone. That is an undeniable fact. I do not however think that group is any sort of majority around here. Maybe more vocal than most, but definitely not bigger in numbers.

As for the Pac vs Floyd "who is greater" argument, I think that depends on perspective. I personally believe Floyd is the greater fighter without question. But I also can understand people who might think Pac had a tougher road to the top, and that argument is valid. He was thrown to the wolves by Murad Muhammad and used as an opponent who was expected to lose. Funny thing is though, he didnt. He succeeded. And fought his way to the top of the sport, against all odds. Meanwhile Floyd was an olympic medalist, brought up and developed carefully and properly by Arum, and fought his way to the top as well. Different paths for sure. Obviously Pac had the tougher path, and of course its an inspirational story, but it doesnt make him the "greater" fighter in my book......

I don't see how this is a fact. You can like GGG and still criticize him. Yes, some posters might not like GGG, that is true. Why is that a problem? I think too many of his fans assume he has to be liked because of the way he fights.

too many GGG fans try and fit everything into that narrative to deflect from criticism he receives. This is why Hagler and BHop and not Monzon are almost always brought up.

IMO this is truly a ******ed discussion and shows how we let idiots drive NSB on a daily basis.

GGG's greatness should be soley based on who he fights and defeats, regardless of the weight the fight is at. If he styas at 160 and fights nothing but 8-1 underdogs, I don't see how he can be considered great.

[j0zef]

We have disagree on #1, by no means is Hagler resume better than Monzon's. Monzon fought during a golden middleweight era that included some of the greatest MWs ever.

As for the posters trying to inject race into the conversation, for example the Big Dummy, please stop. When people use Hagler it has very nothing to do with race you sniveling crybaby. The only person that cares about race is insecure fanboys like you. It seems to be your calling card when you lose a debate. Do us a favor and try not to have children.

The reason Hagler is used is because their careers are similar. Ducked by the champions, fought in division dominated by them, and relied on smaller but more recognizeable fighters to build their star power.

Only full ******s like Big Dummy pretend the situations aren't the same.

I'm not gonna argue over whose resume is better, we're comparing fighters from different eras, and different people will have different opinions.

Can we agree on the 2nd part of that #1? Hagler is associated with many legends of the sport that are known to fans everywhere. Everyone knows who Roberto Duran is. Everyone knows who Sugar Ray Leonard is. Most people have heard or have seen Hearns-Hagler, which is one of the best fights that ever took place.

Vast majority of the fans couldn't name 2 of Monzon's opponents with a gun to their head.

[The Big Dunn]

Yeah, we can agree to disagree since what you wrote is 100% bull****.

The person who most often starts race conversations in EVERY thread they participate in is you. You're not a race baiter or a troll, but whenever a thread turns into a "is it because of race", you can bet that Dunn was involved.

How is what I wrote complete bullsh-t when you have posted on multiple occasions and agreed with posters that have posted most of GGG's criticism comes from black posters?

edit: i don't see why you have such a problem with my opinion. You want to make it about race when he is criticized but not when an example is brought up discussing that criticism.

that is a very slippery slope to be on.

We have disagree on #1, by no means is Hagler resume better than Monzon's. Monzon fought during a golden middleweight era that included some of the greatest MWs ever.

As for the posters trying to inject race into the conversation, for example the Big Dummy, please stop. When people use Hagler it has very nothing to do with race you sniveling crybaby. The only person that cares about race is insecure fanboys like you. It seems to be your calling card when you lose a debate. Do us a favor and try not to have children.

The reason Hagler is used is because their careers are similar. Ducked by the champions, fought in division dominated by them, and relied on smaller but more recognizeable fighters to build their star power.

Only full ******s like Big Dummy pretend the situations aren't the same.

I am pointing why Hagler is always mentioned, which was the TS question. That isn't "injecting race" into the discussion.

I already have children.

How am I losing a debate?

[SilverMiles]

I'm not gonna argue over whose resume is better, we're comparing fighters from different eras, and different people will have different opinions.

Can we agree on the 2nd part of that #1? Hagler is associated with many legends of the sport that are known to fans everywhere. Everyone knows who Roberto Duran is. Everyone knows who Sugar Ray Leonard is. Most people have heard or have seen Hearns-Hagler, which is one of the best fights that ever took place.

Vast majority of the fans couldn't name 2 of Monzon's opponents with a gun to their head.

Star power wise you be would correct, most people even casuals know who Sugar Ray Leonard, even my mom lol.

[SilverMiles]

How is what I wrote complete bullsh-t when you have posted on multiple occasions and agreed with posters that have posted most of GGG's criticism comes from black posters?

edit: i don't see why you have such a problem with my opinion. You want to make it about race when he is criticized but not when an example is brought up discussing that criticism.

that is a very slippery slope to be on.




I am pointing why Hagler is always mentioned, which was the TS question. That isn't "injecting race" into the discussion.

I already have children.

How am I losing a debate?

But Hagler isn't mentioned because of his race and you know that. You should take moment to look around, most Golovkin fans are Hagler fans.

Also let's me honest most of the Golovkin haters, not you, are casual fans and wouldn't know who a Pep, Monzon, LaMotta is or was.

Most of them didn't even know Pryor never left 140.

Hagler is the most obvious comparison and honestly the best. Most of you Golovkin haters would rather sound like hypocrites than hold both fighters to the sane standard.

Simply moving up doesn't make legends, never did and never will.

[-PBP-]

It's a terrible comparison. I can't understand who is arguing otherwise.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

We have disagree on #1, by no means is Hagler resume better than Monzon's. Monzon fought during a golden middleweight era that included some of the greatest MWs ever.

As for the posters trying to inject race into the conversation, for example the Big Dummy, please stop. When people use Hagler it has very nothing to do with race you sniveling crybaby. The only person that cares about race is insecure fanboys like you. It seems to be your calling card when you lose a debate. Do us a favor and try not to have children.

The reason Hagler is used is because their careers are similar. Ducked by the champions, fought in division dominated by them, and relied on smaller but more recognizeable fighters to build their star power.

Only full ******s like Big Dummy pretend the situations aren't the same.

Hagler was already making a lot of money as the champ by the time he fought Hearns and Leonard who were the only smaller fighters on his resume. Hagler in no way used smaller fighters to "build his star power".

[SilverMiles]

It's a terrible comparison. I can't understand who is arguing otherwise.

It's a brilliant comback. You can't argue it without looking like a hypocrite.

What is a terrible argument is that you can't be a boxing legends without moving up whilst having several boxing legends that never moved up.

It's really a childish arguement.

[The Big Dunn]

But Hagler isn't mentioned because of his race and you know that. You should take moment to look around, most Golovkin fans are Hagler fans.

Also let's me honest most of the Golovkin haters, not you, are casual fans and wouldn't know who a Pep, Monzon, LaMotta is or was.

Most of them didn't even know Pryor never left 140.

Hagler is the most obvious comparison and honestly the best. Most of you Golovkin haters would rather sound like hypocrites than hold both fighters to the sane standard.

Simply moving up doesn't make legends, never did and never will.

I answered what I believe is the reason. if you disagree with me fine.

I already agreed with One Punch and J0zef that posters may not know who Monzon and Pep are. Acknowledging that doesn't change the fact that many GGG fans go with the false narrative I posted and when they respond to anything, they do so with that in mind.

I disagree about Hagler being a good comparison. it is utterly ******ed to take some theory some sh-thead created on NSB in 2012 or 2013 in the Floyd/manny debates and try to retroactively apply it to Hagler or anyone whose career took place over 35 years ago.

As I posted, we agree about moving up and greatness.

As far as holding people to equal standards-when did Hagler take step aside money or negotiate for fights at 168 twice (like GGG did with Chavez jr or Froch)? Or do we forget about this when making comparisons.

I stand by what I posted. Like I said to j0zef, lot of you GGG fans exist on a
very slippery slope.

Try for once to look at your fellow GGG fans the same way you look at his critics. .

[therealpugilist]

cause 99% of the poeple here do not know boxing and basically just repeat what they heard someone else say and thought it fit their agenda, or view points.

guess they didnt realize that 168 didnt exist or wasnt legitimate until Hagler was old, or retired.

they started making belts for the division in the mid 80s...hagler was past prime by then

WTF...he wasnt gonna move up and fight Michael Spinks, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, ....he wouldve got his ass handed to him and the size was simply too much.

these are 2 hall of famed guys who won titles over 175....two different scenarios