Comments Thread For: Golovkin's Promoter Denies They Rejected Offer For Canelo Fight

[JUNIABOY]

Let's compare opponents to determine who's the bigger draw and who failed:

- GGG vs Brook vs Canelo vs Khan - What are the numbers?
- GGG vs Lemieux vs Canelo vs Liam Smith - What are the numbers?

****** comparison. You're no boxing fan. You're comparing cumulative ppv numbers now?! Are you serious?! Canelo/Smith did under 300k ppv buys...300. And this is the replacement for FMJ?!...yeah right. At least FMJ could break over half-a-mil by himself. Canelo couldn't even do that on Mexican Independence Day! Being petty on a low-ball offer when both fighter's need each other to make a big payday is just ******. Canelo's star is falling, while GGG's star is rising. Acknowledge it, or forever be a hater.

[Chollo Vista]

****** comparison. You're no boxing fan. You're comparing cumulative ppv numbers now?! Are you serious?! Canelo/Smith did under 300k ppv buys...300. And this is the replacement for FMJ?!...yeah right. At least FMJ could break over half-a-mil by himself. Canelo couldn't even do that on Mexican Independence Day! Being petty on a low-ball offer when both fighter's need each other to make a big payday is just ******. Canelo's star is falling, while GGG's star is rising. Acknowledge it, or forever be a hater.

I'm comparing the equivalent opponents.

You can't compare how well FMJ did with Canelo to how well Pacquiao did with Bradley, can you?

Or how well FMJ did with Guerrero/Berto to how well Canelo did with Cotto?

Of course not, but that's what you're trying to do here.

Lemieux is an equal economic opponent to someone like Liam Smith, if not better.

Brook and Khan are equal opponents. Compare Khan's numbers against Alexander to Brook's numbers against Porter/Gavin.

This is how you compare fighters earning potential to see who's a bigger draw, not what you were previously doing.

When FMJ and Pac were in the infant negotiating stages, they compared their numbers against common opponents (i.e. DLH, Hatton, Mosley) to see who was the bigger draw.

They didn't compare Floyd's numbers against DLH to Pac's numbers against Morales, did they?

[JUNIABOY]

If the building seats 17,500, and you only stage the building for 12k, can you honestly call that a sellout? Because that's exactly what K2 did for both dates at the Forum to get the spin going. If Golovkin is the draw that he's supposed to be, run the full building and have him sell it out

Yes, you can call that a sellout. Because the site administrators determined that this was how much seats they were going to make available for the event. And every seat was sold. Therefore, it was a sellout. You're trying to be a stickler on things that don't need it. Seriously?! Attacking a site for not making all the seats available?!...isn't it up to the site to make that determination? If you're so mad about it, you can contact the administrators for each fight GGG sold out in order to air your grievances. Being petty on the numbers of a sold out boxing event should be beneath boxing fans.

[Chollo Vista]

****** comparison. You're no boxing fan. You're comparing cumulative ppv numbers now?! Are you serious?! Canelo/Smith did under 300k ppv buys...300.

It's all about having a dance partner.

Let's take it a step further. What did Mayweather vs Berto do last year?

[JUNIABOY]

if u think ggg brings in half the interest compared to canelo u are crazy. do be ridiculous canelo is far and away the bigger star

Far and away, huh? Even if him only doing about 250k buy against Liam Smith? Okay. Even when GGG/Brook did 500k in the UK alone? Okay. Whatever you want. At least I know which of those 2 numbers is bigger.

[JUNIABOY]

It's all about having a dance partner.

Let's take it a step further. What did Mayweather vs Berto do last year?

Exactly. It's always about the matchup. I'm a boxing fan. I prefer good matchups over anything. But I try to watch every single fight...no matter who's in it. If Canelo & GGG don't make this fight, that's a ton of money left on the table. And moreso if GBP prevents the fight from happening by lowballing K2. Don't lowball a promotion when they bring a fighter to the table that can do a world-wide ppv event. That's naive if you think DLH can get away with this. The Liam Smith fight is already telling on how much casuals prefer a good matchup. DLH needs to make this fight happen, or stop talking about it. That would be my dream.

[JUNIABOY]

I'm comparing the equivalent opponents.

You can't compare how well FMJ did with Canelo to how well Pacquiao did with Bradley, can you?

Or how well FMJ did with Guerrero/Berto to how well Canelo did with Cotto?

Of course not, but that's what you're trying to do here.

Lemieux is an equal economic opponent to someone like Liam Smith, if not better.

Brook and Khan are equal opponents. Compare Khan's numbers against Alexander to Brook's numbers against Porter/Gavin.

This is how you compare fighters earning potential to see who's a bigger draw, not what you were previously doing.

When FMJ and Pac were in the infant negotiating stages, they compared their numbers against common opponents (i.e. DLH, Hatton, Mosley) to see who was the bigger draw.

They didn't compare Floyd's numbers against DLH to Pac's numbers against Morales, did they?

You can't base everything you're ever going to need to know about GGG's drawing power (ppv drawing power) off of his 1st ppv event. You just can't. Even FMj got the benefit of the doubt after his 1st ppv. And in GGG's 2nd go-around at ppv he did 500k buys in what was solely a UK ppv event. If this was a world-wide ppv event, likely would have done more. Now that's there 2 ppv events under his belt, there's more data to determine how big of a draw he is. And considering that GGG's 1st ppv was against a non-American in America, it did fairly well...the 2nd ppv was a huge success.

What I'm trying to do is talk some sense into you. You actually did try to do a comparison of the 2 fighters thru cumulative ppv money earned. That's the wrong way of approaching the problem of how big a financial split GGG deserves. We have to look at the today & now of that potential bout. Okay, September of 2017 is the date they're targeting. GGG will likely get 2 more fights in before that...1, if not both, being a ppv event. If GGG's draw continues to rise , he could be closer to a 50/50 that a 90/10. And 90/10 is what the likely split would have been if K2 had caved in to that ridiculous flat offer from DLH. Ridiculous. GGG isn't going to sign for a fight that's 1 year away.

And what are you talking about with your argument of comparing common opponents? GGG & canelo don't have any common opponents. So, we have to look at similar opponents at a similar time. And it just so happens that Canelo fought a lesser known title-holder in the same month that GGG fought a lesser known title-holder. That is the ultimate comparison. It's in the same month. And the same casual fans are dictating the results of this comparison. The fans have spoken: they support GGG more. Both guys can fill a stadium, & both guys can earn about the same ppv buys on their own. That definitely does not constitute an flat-fee offer from DLH. That's what so mind-blowing about the Canelo apologists. What the f#ck was the flat-fee proposal supposed to do for his fighter's appeal?!...make him look like the villain that FMJ was?! Because that's exactly what FMJ tried to pull on Pacquiao. Is DLH trying to make Canelo & his team the villains?! Making a flat-fee proposal to Loeffler only encouraged Loeffler to counter-offer. That's it. A percentage split for a world-wide ppv event is the only way to go about this contract. Any other way makes it look like your side is sabotaging the fight.

[Scipio2009]

Because if the fight even makes a lowball amount of money...say, 70mil (could potentially make 100mil+)...taking 10mil would make him the lower end of a 15/85 split. It's still a bad deal for K2 & GGG. Canelo is not making that big money unless he fights GGG. And Canelo isn't far ahead the A-side to warrant that kind of pitiful split. And I know you're going to want to bring up that GGG would get 10mil plus a percentage of the ppv. But, what's the percentage he's going to get? DLH & GBP hasn't been quite available to release that info. So, not knowing what the 8-figure offer was (could be any number) & not knowing what the percentage was, then it becomes evident that it was a bad deal. And if Loeffler counter-offers with a percentage split (acknowledging that Canelo is the A-side), then the counter-offer is likely more fair than what DLH was talking about. This is why it would be ****** for GGG to take a flat fee. GGG might never get a payday anywhere close to this, that's true. But Canelo can't make that insane amount either without GGG. It's a double-edged sword. If DLH & GBP were truly serious about getting the deal done as soon as possible, a percentage split is the only way to go. This is going to be a world-wide ppv event...it's going to generate tons of money (not just in mexico & southwest America). GGG deserves a fair split as a champion, as a p4p fighter, and as the only remaining opponent for Canelo to make that huge payday (there isn't any opponent out there that is going to generate as much for an event as GGG would for Canelo). So yes, it was a bad deal for GGG...no doubt about that.

Even if the fight generated $100m, you're still talking about clearing $50m once you've paid everyone outside, $40m once you've paid the promoters, and the fighter split still being $30m to Alvarez and $10m to Golovkin, a 3:1 split that actually ends up being a bit rich when you compare the business that each guy actually does.

Alvarez-Smith, once everything is counted (PPV, live gate/site fee, international TV, event sponsors, etc), likely ended up generating nearly $50m in revenue, netting $20m-$25m before paying the promoters. You add that Liam Smith likely didn't command monster money for the fight, and it isn't a stretch to think that Alvarez took home $15m to fight a guy with near no name ID in the US.

Compare that to what Golovkin could on his next 5 fights without Alvarez; Jacobs, Saunders, Eubank Jr, Andy Lee, and a mandatory defense likely won't get Golovkin more than $10m in total.

K2 isn't going to get a share on the entire event, because they don't do the business to merit a share on the entire event, full stop.

[Scipio2009]

Numbers are in, buddy...and reports are saying that the Smith fight is registering under 300k buys. That means the event bombed...it failed. While GGG's event with Brook was a huge success. This is why DLH's BS offer looks like the maneuver of a desperate man. GGG's star is rising while Canelo's star is falling. Why the hell would any fighter sign a contract a year in advance when we know GGG will probably fight 2 more times before that date??? Anything could happen in that span. GGG might even become a big enough draw to deserve a 50/50 split...you can't predict the future. DLH was just trying to take some of the heat off of his fighter. The problem is that this tactic didn't work because Loeffler was quick to counter-offer (& the fans were quick to recognize the BS tactic by GBP)...which forced GBP to send Gomez out there & say that they need to get back to the negotiating table. Considering that a GGG/Canelo fight would be a world-wide ppv event, it would be a bad deal for GGG to take the flat offer. At least acknowledge that. If there was an immediate rematch clause attached to that offer, I would be more susceptible to your words. But none of those things were ever mentioned. That makes you some type of a hype man or an apologist for Canelo. Please acknowledge the logic of my narrative.

@$65 per PPV, 300k PPV buys amount to almost $20m in PPV revenue (likely about $10m once all of the outside parties were paid).

Golovkin-Lemieux, even if you believe Tom Loeffler's numbers (a number that wasn't substantiated by anyone else but Loeffler), ended up doing $7.5m (netting just over $3.5m on the fight).

Alvarez's "flop" still did at least triple the business than what Golovkin has done on PPV; K2 had jack **** to do with Matchroom Sport's PPV, other than ship Golovkin over the week of the fight.

If Golovkin is going to walk away from $10m, that's on him and for K2 to explain to the boxing world as Alvarez moves on with his life.

[Scipio2009]

Apparently, the rumors were right. HBO has been advised by GBP not to release those numbers. But some good ole fashioned investigative works shows that the Canelo/Smith fight did under 300k ppv buys (looking close to 250k buys). So, this event bombed. Not trying to do a comparison against GGG's event in London makes you look petty. That event was a huge success: sold out in 11 minutes, did 500k ppv buys just in the UK, & drew a ton of viewers on HBO. That is what you call a success. GGG's star is rising. The funny thing is that Canelo contributed to that trend when he vacated & made GGG look that much more intriguing. Look, Loeffler even acknowledges Canelo is the A-side...but he's not so far ahead as an A-side that he warrants an 90/10 or an 85/15 split. Not going to happen. A world-wide ppv event this large deserves a percentage split. Any other way to justify DLH's 8-figure offer is just you being a Canelo apologist or a GGG hater. That's it.

lol.

The initial satellite number gets projected out for the entire event, and you're hear, trying to sell said range as gospel. gtfoh