Everyone Wants to Talk About Floyd's IV - What About Pac-Monster's Toradol Abuse???

[Zaroku]

I actually saw this video when you posted it once before. Definitely loved it. I've been friends with some FilAm's when I was back in NY, and made lots of really cool filipinos and filipinas when I was in the Phils. Found some cool peeps from both sides. But I've definitely known some fake ass, wanna be thug, "too cool" FilAm's in New York, and they are ****ing annoying...or just funny to me depending on my mood.

That Ir0nFist dude is just an insignificant gnat. He's been buried in this thread, so he is just hoping to somehow come back from all the times he's been embarrassed. He isn't worth anyone's time.

I think that young man is amazing! Iron***** knows I done broke his b2tch azz down. If plasticFist and I sparred, 10,000 to 1, I would crush his idiotic azz.

[ADP02]

You don't get it, do you?

You brought up this issue to try to prove the specific gravity test is bs. Did you not?

You aren't fooling anyone by saying the end result is that he was found guilty. How is it relevant that NSAC decided he is guilty in their court? I can prove you are WRONG about the specific gravity test and that he diluted his samples. Complete utter bull****.

Why won't you answer? New thread or no? ONe of us seems quite confident, one doesn't. Why won't you step up and prove your idiotic claim!

Nope. I want you to start a "specific gravity test performed by WADA is bullshlt" thread.

We both know what your agenda is. Set it up and present your facts, I'll present mine. We'll see what people think here. Deal?

Wrong!

Nobody said that a test is BS. I said that a test can produce a negative result and be WRONG!!!

How do I know that?
People have used PEDs/substances. They have used many ways to beat the testing program including micro-dosing, delaying and masking. Its a FACT.

You seem to think otherwise and think that masking by way of dilution is not occurring. You are the naïve one not me.

Diaz admitted to trying to mask his substance use.
Diaz was caught violating in 2007, 2012 and 2014
Diaz refused to be tested by USADA recently.

Yet

Travestyny thinks that Diaz is squeaky clean. WROOONG!!!


BTW - No need to start a new thread. Show me what you have .... Let the fun begin.



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[ADP02]

You don't get it, do you?

How is it relevant that NSAC decided he is guilty in their court?

Why won't you step up and prove your idiotic claim!

Man, this is some funny stuff coming from a Floyd fan.

All it took is you seeing an interview from 2 of Floyd's defense team, Showtime and NSAC, and you were not only convinced but you Floyd fans said that is all we need to hear:

NSAC's Bennet to Showtime: "We are not interested in investigating Floyd Maweather"


Sad stuff considering that like Manny, Floyd did not notify the NSAC BEFORE the fight. Actually, in Manny's case, they were at least aware of the meds Manny used and that he wanted to use it.

With Floyd they knew NOTHING!!! Yet no investigation?

[travestyny]

Think objectively for a minute. Specific gravity test done by a DCO is not enough for several reasons.

Nick Diaz had 3 urine samples collected on the day of one of his fights. 2 samples used specific gravity tests to check for dilution. They came back .003 and .006. According to WADA rules, .006 is passible. Both samples returned negative results (not in violation). The third test which was done by Quest Lab and used a different protocol (not sg) turned in a positive result.

So to say that the sg test did not catch that the urine sample was too dilute to get a positive result!!!

What are you saying? I already posted that the reason for the negative test had nothing to do with the qualification or mistakes made by the WADA LAB. They just used a different protocol!!!

Wrong!

Nobody said that a test is BS. I said that a test can produce a negative result and be WRONG!!!

.

Ok. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are trying to say. I admit, I have no idea what the hell you are trying to argue here right now.

If one lab had marijuana metabolites at over 300ng/ml and the other had metabolites at about 60ng/ml, one of these labs is clearly wrong.

You are saying that the WADA lab got it wrong because they used the specific gravity test instead of the creatinine test, correct? That looks like it's your argument, looking at what you wrote above. So from the results of the different tests, wouldn't that show there is a HUGE problem with the specific gravity test??? You say the WADA lab didn't make any mistake, but wouldn't you say that the results show that someone made a GROSS ERROR!

[travestyny]

Man, this is some funny stuff coming from a Floyd fan.

All it took is you seeing an interview from 2 of Floyd's defense team, Showtime and NSAC, and you were not only convinced but you Floyd fans said that is all we need to hear:

NSAC's Bennet to Showtime: "We are not interested in investigating Floyd Maweather"


Sad stuff considering that like Manny, Floyd did not notify the NSAC BEFORE the fight. Actually, in Manny's case, they were at least aware of the meds Manny used and that he wanted to use it.

With Floyd they knew NOTHING!!! Yet no investigation?

Again, you are misunderstanding. Why is Nick Diaz being found guilty (in that kangaroo court, I might add) relevant to the validity of a specific gravity test? That's my point.

[travestyny]

Diaz admitted to trying to mask his substance use.

He admit to trying to mask the specific tests that we are discussing? Can you show me that information?

Diaz was caught violating in 2007, 2012 and 2014
Diaz refused to be tested by USADA recently.

How is that relevant to the specific tests we are discussing?

Travestyny thinks that Diaz is squeaky clean. WROOONG!!!

Where did I ever say he was completely clean. The results from the 2 WADA tests show his levels were below the threshold for a positive test. Now if you can show me where I said he was "squeaky clean," that would be appreciated.

[travestyny]

Funny how you call NSAC a "kangaroo court" when they go against your point but then you go on to make other points by stating what NSAC said just to say that they must be right because its the NSAC that is saying it. . In other words, you are kinda saying, the NSAC have the final word no matter what you say, so too bad so sad. Its time you take some of that medicine!
.

You've grossly misunderstood plenty about my points and about this "trial."

This was a Kangaroo Court:

1. At the beginning of the proceeding, Pat Lundvall is overheard whispering to Commission Aquilar, "Is he here? I bet he doesn't show up," referring to Nick Diaz. So much for the "judges" being unbiased.

2. At one point, an objection is raised by Diaz' attorney, the panel of commissioners all look at each other, having no idea what the actual **** to do. Finally, after awkward silence, Commissioner Aguilar, visibly blushing like a school girl, coyly says, "Overruled," to which Commissioner Marnell sitting next to him laughs and says, "Get your black robe," and they both enjoy a laugh.

3. The proceeding appears to be held as if it is taking place in a court of law, but time and again the panel of commissioners seemed unsure what to do in certain situations because they were unaware of proper courtroom procedure.

No matter what the evidence presented, NSAC was always going to be able to do what they wanted in this case. The "judges" were their commissioners. It was a complete waste of time.

So yes, you are right, NSAC had the final word no matter what I or anyone else say. But you confuse my intent. My only point of contention with regards to this issue is your claim about the specific gravity test. I've never tried to argue that Nick Diaz is innocent, though I believe that in this case he was indeed innocent of being above the threshold for marijuana metabolites. Do you understand now? And I've certainly never clung to anything NSAC has said regarding Floyd because they only thing they've said is that he's done nothing wrong. Other than that, they were at USADA's throat. Regarding Manny, the only thing they've said was why they wouldn't allow the meds, which they gave a valid reason for, and stated that they hadn't received any proof of an injury. Since Pac's team never rebutted those claims, what is any logical person to believe? You tell me.

[ADP02]

Ok. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are trying to say. I admit, I have no idea what the hell you are trying to argue here right now.

If one lab had marijuana metabolites at over 300ng/ml and the other had metabolites at about 60ng/ml, one of these labs is clearly wrong.

You are saying that the WADA lab got it wrong because they used the specific gravity test instead of the creatinine test, correct? That looks like it's your argument, looking at what you wrote above. So from the results of the different tests, wouldn't that show there is a HUGE problem with the specific gravity test??? You say the WADA lab didn't make any mistake, but wouldn't you say that the results show that someone made a GROSS ERROR!

I'm not saying that.

All I'm saying is that Diaz was found to be in violation even though the specific gravity test for one sample was below the threshold as per WADA rules.

Like I said, unlike what Diaz's subjective expert witness said, there are ways to dilute your urine.

As I said as one possible scenario, Diaz more than likely was hyper hydrated before the fight (you kinda agreed with that) then while rehydrating his body again after the fight, it was not dilute enough for the 2nd test but was dilute enough to produce a negative result by the time he was tested for the 3rd and final test.


Here is a study with subjects drinking just 1 quart of fluids per hour:
"specific gravities < 01.003 starting approximately 1.5 to 2.0 hrs following commencement of drinking....By the time subjects had ingested just 2 quarts of fluid, they were generally producing specimens that tested negative for drug metabolites."

Diaz admits to chugging down more than just a quart per hour to avoid getting tested positive. So there goes Diaz's "expert" witness.



Here is more convincing news:
"Nick Diaz was a no-show at open workouts and almost didn't make the actual fight."

"Diaz was NOT licensed to compete until the week of the fight. Diaz was NOT able to provide a clean drug sample to the NSAC until "days' before" the bout, said Diaz's coach and confirmed by Bennet (NSAC)."

"Diaz's coach said Diaz was not able to submit a clean drug test until the 11th hour"

"According to Diaz's coach, Diaz failed SEVERAL TESTS before passing the one that was submitted to the NSAC. Positive tests were not submitted to the commission."



Fight night positive test:
"Diaz's coach said, What we think happened is the exertion of the fight affected the test and that's why he tested positive."

"Diaz's coach said, he is NOT surprised and does not think its a big story. It's NOT a shocker. His DNA is THC, let's face it. No one is surprised by that ...."

"Diaz has a medical marijuana license. It was reported that Diaz did NOT disclose any medical marijuana use in the last month"

"He does not take pain medications, said Diaz's coach.
When he is in pain after his workouts, Diaz likes to smoke marijuana."




.

[travestyny]

I'm not saying that.

All I'm saying is that Diaz was found to be in violation even though the specific gravity test for one sample was below the threshold as per WADA rules.

No! Absolutely doesn't make any sense. What you are ignoring is that there has to be something wrong with 1 out of these 3 tests. Absolutely makes no sense. You are taking the 2nd test to be true when the 2 WADA tests say it isn't.

Like I said, unlike what Diaz's subjective expert witness said, there are ways to dilute your urine.

As I said as one possible scenario, Diaz more than likely was hyper hydrated before the fight (you kinda agreed with that) then while rehydrating his body again after the fight, it was not dilute enough for the 2nd test but was dilute enough to produce a negative result by the time he was tested for the 3rd and final test.

Dude, how the hell does this make any sense to you? So he was hyper hydrated for the first test. He took the second test and was NOT hyper hydrated. He was just fine. And then one hour and 15 minutes later he is hyper-hydrated again? That is NOT POSSIBLE. You're saying that after he gave urine for A SECOND DRUG TEST already, he goes and begins trying to hydrate again, as if he has any reason to believe he will be tested A THIRD TIME. That in itself is foolish. Then you say he began hydrating right after the fight and at the time of the 2nd test he was normal, and in fact maybe even slightly dehydrated, but at the time of the third test he was now hyper-hydrated. That's foolish. His specific gravity hadn't even reached the level it was for the first test, so how is he now so hydrated for the third test that the sample is diluted???? YOUR SCENARIO MAKES NO SENSE!

Here is a study with subjects drinking just 1 quart of fluids per hour:
"specific gravities < 01.003 starting approximately 1.5 to 2.0 hrs following commencement of drinking....By the time subjects had ingested just 2 quarts of fluid, they were generally producing specimens that tested negative for drug metabolites."

Dude, you are leaving out lots of information. Not only do we not know what their hydration level was at before this test, but you are reading the study wrong. Can you post the link, because that is certainly not exactly what I found.

The herbal tea was prepared in 1 gal of water as specified by the manufacturer. All other products were consumed with 1 gal of water. Two control conditions in which the subject consumed only water (1 gal; 12 oz) were included. The 1-gal liquid treatments were divided into 4-qt aliquots, and 1-qt was consumed each hour for 4 h. All treatments were begun approximately 22 h after smoking of a marijuana cigarette (3.58% THC) and 22 h after intranasal administration of ******* hydrochloride. Following all treatments with excess fluid, creatinine and specific gravity dropped in 1.5-2.0 h to levels indicative of diluted specimens (<20 mg/dL creatinine, <1.003 specific gravity). Marijuana and ******* metabolite concentrations by immunoassay (EMIT and TDx) also dropped rapidly, and the results frequently switched from positive to negative.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9788521

The levels began to drop 1.5 to 2 hours after the subjects had drank a bit over a gallon of water in 4 hours! That means this change started to take place at a minimum of 5.5 hours later. Nick Diaz had 1 hour and 15 minutes to accomplish this!!!!! Not only that, but his hydration level was not lower than 1.003. It wasn't even at the level from before the fight. His specific gravity was now at 1.009!!!

Diaz admits to chugging down more than just a quart per hour to avoid getting tested positive. So there goes Diaz's "expert" witness.

1. Where did Nick Diaz admit this?
2. Being that you read the study wrong, I think you know how foolish you sound. Furthermore, this "subjective witness" is a medical review officer and has been one for over 20 years. IT IS HIS JOB TO REVIEW DRUG TESTS IN THESE SITUATIONS! How dare you try to say you debunked this guy when he is an expert in the field who has testified in these situations before. I think you realize now that you aren't 1/3 as smart as you thought you were. How the hell do the marijuana metabolites go down from over 300ng to 60ng? IT ISN'T PLAUSIBLE!

Here is more convincing news:
"Nick Diaz was a no-show at open workouts and almost didn't make the actual fight."

"Diaz was NOT licensed to compete until the week of the fight. Diaz was NOT able to provide a clean drug sample to the NSAC until "days' before" the bout, said Diaz's coach and confirmed by Bennet (NSAC)."

"Diaz's coach said Diaz was not able to submit a clean drug test until the 11th hour"

"According to Diaz's coach, Diaz failed SEVERAL TESTS before passing the one that was submitted to the NSAC. Positive tests were not submitted to the commission."



Fight night positive test:
"Diaz's coach said, What we think happened is the exertion of the fight affected the test and that's why he tested positive."

"Diaz's coach said, he is NOT surprised and does not think its a big story. It's NOT a shocker. His DNA is THC, let's face it. No one is surprised by that ...."

"Diaz has a medical marijuana license. It was reported that Diaz did NOT disclose any medical marijuana use in the last month"

"He does not take pain medications, said Diaz's coach.
When he is in pain after his workouts, Diaz likes to smoke marijuana."

.

NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT HE TESTED NEGATIVE ON TWO TESTS AND WAYYYY POSITIVE ON A TEST IN BETWEEN. IT'S NOT POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO HAVE PROVIDED A NON-DILUTED SAMPLE THAT SHOWED THAT AMOUNT OF MARIJUANA METABOLITE AND THEN 1 HOUR 15 MINUTES LATER TAKE A TEST THAT WAS NOT DILUTED BEING THAT HE WAS AT A SPECIFIC GRAVITY OF 1.009 AND HAVE THE TEST CHANGE THAT DRASITCALLY!!!

AND LET ME CORRECT MYSELF. HIS LEVELS WENT FROM AROUND 49ng, TO 730ng, BACK DOWN TO 61ng of marijuana metabolite in less than 1 hour 16 minutes!!! How the hell you gonna explain that?????

[travestyny]

Here is a study with subjects drinking just 1 quart of fluids per hour:
"specific gravities < 01.003 starting approximately 1.5 to 2.0 hrs following commencement of drinking....By the time subjects had ingested just 2 quarts of fluid, they were generally producing specimens that tested negative for drug metabolites."
.

I think I've found this study that you are talking about. I may be wrong, but since you didn't give a link, I had to go fishing around to find out exactly what you are talking about. Is it this:

http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/6/460.full.pdf

I think that's it because I see the information that you gave verified, and it does NOT help you. In fact it only strengthens what I've been telling you. I'll explain why.

First of all, let's get some things straight:

1. Normal Specific Gravity for a person:

Ideally, urine specific gravity results will fall between 1.002 and 1.030 if your kidneys are functioning normally.
http://www.healthline.com/health/uri...avity#Results5

Of course, this is without consideration of passing a drug test, but still I want to clear the air with this. Don't worry. It's only relevant as to say Nick's hydration level was reasonable for a civilian, but perhaps not according to drug test standards, which I will address later.

2. How Quest Diagnostics defines a diluted sample.
Quest Diagnostics does a creatinine test to delineate the hydration of a sample. If the sample is lower than 20ng/ml, Quest Labs then deems another test is needed to officially state the sample is diluted. The test is THE SPECIFIC GRAVITY TEST and the sample is deemed diluted if the sample is less than 1.003. So if the creatinine level is less than 20ng and the SpGr is less than 1.003, only then is the sample considered diluted, according to Quest labs.

3. How USADA/WADA define a diluted sample:
Suitable Specific Gravity for Analysis: Specific gravity measured at 1.005 or higher with a refractometer, or 1.010 or higher with lab sticks.

4. SMRTL WADA Accredited Lab's findings on specific gravity:

According to Eichner, "ideal" specific gravity for a urine sample is approximately 1.020...."We can take it a little more diluted than that, but that's what is ideal," Eichner said. "Obviously, we don't want a sample that is too dilute. It's hard to find levels of what you're looking for. Ideally, we try to make sure nothing is diluted more than 1.008."

This begs the question: Why did SMRTL accept the post fight specific gravity of 1.002? I can think of 2 possible explanations.

1. Since Nate's 1.002 SpGr is from before the fight, perhaps they felt it was fair that he be allowed to rehydrate going into the fight, knowing that they would test him again after the fight.

2. Since NSAC is not a WADA signatory, NSAC (who is responsible for the testing, and NOT USADA who could only accept a value above 1.005 as I showed you above) could accept lower values. This is verified here:

Although Diaz's tests produced a less-than=ideal specific gravity, they aren't dismissive for that reason alone. The NSAC has accepted urine tests in the past with specific gravities lower than what Diaz produced.
http://www.espn.com/blog/mma/post/_/...tic-commission

Ok, so now that we have that information, what were Nick Diaz's levels of hydration for the tests we are discussing?

• A. WADA Pre-fight test at 7:12pm: SpGr 1.002
• B. QUEST Post-fight test at 10:38pm: Creatinine 168.4mg/dl
  (Dr. Sample of Quest testified that this level means normal or slightly dehydrated).
• C. WADA Post-Fight test at 11:55pm: SpGr 1.009

As you can see, the WADA post fight test would not be considered dilute by USADA's standards, WADA's standards, or QUEST's standards.

It's your claim that Nick Diaz was able to dilute his sample for the 11:55pm test. Let's look at the amount of marijuana metabolite that was found:

• A. 7:12pm: 41.731 ng
• B. 10:38pm: 733.23 ng
• C. 11:55pm: 61.104 ng

One of these tests is WAYYYYYY off. This is where your study comes in. You claim that in 1 hour and 15 minutes, Nick Diaz can go from 733ng of marijuana metabolites to 61ng of marijuana metabolites. As the medical review officer (whose job it is to review drug tests!) testified, this is NOT MEDICALLY PLAUSIBLE!

1. He was, according to Dr. Sample of QUEST, perhaps slightly dehydrated at 10:38pm. First of all, a DCO from SMRTL was present at this time. This has been verified by the collection officer from NSAC. SMRTL's DCO witnessed Diaz give the 10:38pm sample. This would mean that the DCO from SMRTL then sat around and watched Nick Diaz hydrate enough to bring his levels down to 61ng from 733ng. That seems outrageous, don't you think?

2. It is NOT MEDICALLY PLAUSIBLE for Nick Diaz to hydrate enough to bring the levels down from 733ng to 61ng. Let's look at your study:

A. Your study is not very relevant to your claim. The subjects smoked one marijuana cigarette and then began hydrating after about 22 hours. Let's look at their marijuana metabolite levels after 22 hours of that marijuana use but before hydrating:

• Subject C: 21ng/ml
• Subject D: 53ng/ml
• Subject E: 35ng/ml
• Subject F: 94ng/ml
• Subject G: 53ng/ml

None of these subjects are anywhere near 733ng/ml!!!

Not only that, but look at the tables that are on that link. I'll give you one example from subject D since that was a 36 year old male at 94kg. Nick Diaz is 84kg, so I thought that's the best example to use.

[IMG]http://i62.***********.com/albums/h95/travestyny/Screen%20Shot%202016-10-23%20at%206.18.34%20AM.png[/IMG]

As you can see, after over 2 hours and 2 quarts of water, his specific gravity is now 1.005 and the marijuana metabolites decreased from 53ng to 10ng. After continuing to drink 1 quart of water every hour for a total of 4 hours, his specific gravity gets as low as 1.001 and his marijuana metabolite level only gets as low as 5ng.

SO HOW THE HELL DID NICK DIAZ, AT A SPECIFIC GRAVITY OF 1.009, GET HIS MARIJUANA LEVEL TO DROP FROM 733ng TO 61ng???? THE AMOUNT OF WATER HE WOULD HAVE TO DRINK IN ONLY 1 HOUR AND 17 MINUTES WOULD HAVE LITERALLY KILLED HIM, AND HIS SPECIFIC GRAVITY WOULD BE MUCH, MUCH LOWER!!!!

So your study actually helps to prove my point!

The Quest lab got lots of things wrong here!

• The test collector from NSAC didn't allow Nick to seal the bottles himself, against WADA protocol. They didn't have to I suppose because the sample was for Quest, a non-WADA accredited lab.
• The test collector from NSAC didn't check the box that said Nick witnessed him seal the bottles.
• The test collector from NSAC wrote Nic Diaz' name on the paperwork sent to QUEST which destroyed anonymity and created an opening for bias to effect the results.

WADA is viewed as having superior methods and drug-testing protocol.
If you don't believe me, just ask NSAC:

1. Commissioner Pat Lundvall:
"Quest does a rudimentary type of testing which is less refined than SMRTL."

"One of the things that, at least, that I try to look at is that we have adopted WADA's Prohibited list. And it's WADA, and given its general vast resources, has put marijuana on that Prohibited List in-competition. WADA made that decision. We didn't make that decision."

2. Commissioner Francisco Aguilar:
"Yes, I think anybody would like to employ the WADA standard. However, given the expense and the amount of compliance, it doesn't allow for, I think, combat sports throughout the country and throughout the world to have the resources to employ the WADA standard, but when we can we will...And with that in mind, I think we do have a positive test today. It's not up to the standard as many would judge throughout professional, elite athletes and the WADA standard, but it is a standard we have employed and we have utilized throughout time and I think we will continue to do so."

So WADA and it's reliance on specific gravity is good enough for NSAC....except that it costs too much.

You are saying that the WADA lab got it wrong because they used the specific gravity test instead of the creatinine test, correct?

I'm not saying that.
All I'm saying is that Diaz was found to be in violation even though the specific gravity test for one sample was below the threshold as per WADA rules.

You seemingly are trying to attack the integrity of the specific gravity test without stating outright that it's what you are doing. If Nick Diaz was in violation but WADA's rules allowed him to be found innocent, THAT MEANS THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE SPECIFIC GRAVITY TEST! There's just no way around that. You have failed to show any evidence that the specific gravity test let Nick Diaz slip through the cracks being that:

1. It would be medically implausible to do what you're implying.
2. Factually, Nick Diaz did not over-hydrate being that his specific gravity was 1.009, which again is greater than the pre-fight test.
3. Your study helped to prove that the numbers don't jump anywhere near as much as you are trying to prove.

Strict WADA rules, which Mayweather would be subjected to due to USADA performing the drug tests, is that the specific gravity must be at 1.005 or higher regardless of the IV. This would therefore not be considered diluted according to WADA or Quest labs.

Does all of this not prove that you are wrong about the integrity of the specific gravity test?