Comments Thread For: Arum Reflects on Mayweather's IV, Pacquiao Shoulder Shot Scandal

[b00g13man]

[Spoon23]

Wait...Floyd has a legacy?

Thats really not fair to the turd either. Comparing it to Floyd. A turd cannot be that bad.

Oooops my bad. You have a point there. Unfair for the turd.

[travestyny]

1. $130k did fluid pay for the test right? thats not speculating.

Speculating that they don't follow WADA code and do testing themselves. Desperation on your part.

2. according to wada 50ml per 6 hours is enough to mask prohibited substances..fluid used 750ml and didnt even get tested for it???

You have no idea what you are talking about. 50Ml per 6 hours is what is allowed, so how can that be enough to mask? You're gonna hurt yourself trying to think.

Floyd WAS tested. That's the whole point. He gave a partial urine sample from before the IV and then the urine, that passed the specific gravity test, came out clean. You are left with nothing but your speculation.

for rehydration purposes, depends on person, size etc, but the point is the use of IV

if fluid was really severly dehydrated enough to not be able to rehydrate himself orally then that warrants the use of IV, and he may have ended up using litres of it.. but then he wouldnt be fighting a boxing match less than 24 hours after

which leads to the conclusion that fluid used the IV to dilute stuff in his blood.

What part of this don't you understand? He didn't take a blood test, so we need not discuss manipulating blood levels. The urine test had to pass the test to make sure it wasn't diluted, plus he gave a partial sample before the IV. The urine test was not positive for anything. It was tested at an independent lab. The independent TUEC approved of the TUE. WADA saw nothing wrong when the information was sent to them. This is an open and shut case.

As for your speculation that he could have rehydrated orally, I suggest you get his medical records to see the justification for the IV. Until then, you can only speculate.

3. point is moot since it can be concluded from 2. that fluid wasn't dehydrated

Point 3 was regarding his urine having to pass the specific gravity test to make sure it wasn't diluted. How can you say that's moot? You are having a hard time following. Keep trying.

[maguswarlock]

Speculating that they don't follow WADA code and do testing themselves. Desperation on your part.

you're speculating more on what ailment fluid had (if he had any at all) in order for him to be granted a tue.

im stating that fluid paid usada a higher amount than normal.

maybe if bj penn paid usada the same fluid did, hmm..

You have no idea what you are talking about. 50Ml per 6 hours is what is allowed, so how can that be enough to mask? You're gonna hurt yourself trying to think.

Floyd WAS tested. That's the whole point. He gave a partial urine sample from before the IV and then the urine, that passed the specific gravity test, came out clean. You are left with nothing but your speculation.

are you kidding me..
wada clearly states that an IV can be used to for a number of reasons, one of which is to mask use of prohibited substances, other is to distort the biological passport, the first being to increase plasma volume levels.. frankly 50ml per 6hrs isn't enough for the first

distorting biological passport, hmm.. didn;t usada introduce a steroidal module test that that tests for athlete's urine for any sign of steroid abuse, and the marker values in urine or the urinary profile of athlete is part of the athlete's biological passport..

so according to wada, using iv can distort urine?
but didn;t you initially say that it can't i.e that fluid didn't need to use IV to hide prohibited substances as he was getting a urine test. not a blood test.
sigh nvm

anyway. yes 50ml per 6hours doesnt seem much to increase plasma levels, so the minimum 50ml per 6hours can more refer to as the minimum to able to hide the use of prohibited substances.

[/quote]
What part of this don't you understand? He didn't take a blood test, so we need not discuss manipulating blood levels[/quote]

that makes the whole thing more su****ious does it not.. fluid uses IV which can possibly mask use of prohibited substances in the blood.. but his buddies usada give him a urine test instead.. but anyway according to wada use of IV can change some property of the urine

. The urine test had to pass the test to make sure it wasn't diluted, plus he gave a partial sample before the IV. The urine test was not positive for anything.

can use of vitamins along with the IV mask dilution of urine? didnt fluid take a mixture of saline in vitamins in the IV?

It was tested at an independent lab. The independent TUEC approved of the TUE. WADA saw nothing wrong when the information was sent to them. This is an open and shut case.

maybe because the IV masked the sample, and that was allowed.. by usada..

shut?

no by far as it's not a shut case.. I mean what exactly did fluid need 750ml for
you fluid fans constantly make stuff up to somehow fit wada category for it being exceptional

As for your speculation that he could have rehydrated orally, I suggest you get his medical records to see the justification for the IV. Until then, you can only speculate.

ah the onus is on you to provide me with why you justify him needing an IV over oral rehydration.. but all you did is speculate on possible conditions he has as to why he used IV over oral to fit wada code.

i mean there are all sorts of red flags

* fluid took much more than 50ml per 6ml, which can be enough to mask prohibited substances or alter biological passport
* it wasn't done in a medical facility but rather his own home
* it wasn't just saline he took, but an IV of 250ml vitamin solution and 500ml saline solution, where taking vitamins can mask dilution of urine also
* fluid paid much more than the standard fee for usada testing.
* on the matter of dehydration as the cause of him needing 750ml IV..he could've rehydrated orally that amount.. was he severely dehydrated enough that he wasn't able to move in order to rehydrate by mouth?.. no.. he looked fit as fiddle with nice glowing skin and bright welled up fluidy eyes.

so many flags.. if i was fluid himself and I was genuine about the condition I had, I would openly release medical records to public to outright proof that I am clean.. sigh. .. but fluid did not.

and what happend that time when he, or was it fluid snr, accused pac of taking roids etc, and pac team filed a defamation case against them.. team pac got subpeona on fluid.. but rather than go to court fluid settled out of court instead..

why was fluid scared of going to court?

Point 3 was regarding his urine having to pass the specific gravity test to make sure it wasn't diluted. How can you say that's moot? You are having a hard time following. Keep trying.

specific gravity test is basically a density test of urine,.. sigh
and fluid paid $130k.. much more than normal fee

etc.

poor bj penn

[Zaroku]

yeah, thats why he was on roids so he wouldnt feel it.

Here we go again. We are gonna have to smack more t@rds down now!

[Zaroku]

So let's see...you're just going to speculate to fit your agenda. Sounds fun.

1. Are you really trying to argue that maybe USADA doesn't follow the WADA code and does it's own thing? I wonder why you would speculate about that.

2. Why would you worry about what is excessive to me. Go find out what is excessive to WADA. Go ask them why the TUEC, USADA, and WADA approved the IV.

3. Go ask USADA what his specific gravity value was.

What you don't understand is that this is a national anti-doping agency and there is a procedure in place so that it's not easy for cheaters to win. You blatantly ignore all of that to say maybe USADA even did it's own testing. Maybe VADA does it's own testing. And maybe there's a zebra in your closet right now.

Keep up the good fight. Beating up t@rds is fun!

[travestyny]

you're speculating more on what ailment fluid had (if he had any at all) in order for him to be granted a tue.

I've never said I know what ailment he had. I said WADA stated that there are cases in which IV rehydration is more efficient than oral hydration. Therefore, it's quite possible that he had one of these ailments, isn't it? I don't think any of us would know unless we have his medical records, which by the way were enough to convince the independent TUEC and WADA itself. That's the part you conveniently ignore, unless you want to speculate further that he paid off the TUEC and WADA.

im stating that fluid paid usada a higher amount than normal.

maybe if bj penn paid usada the same fluid did, hmm..

So you should be able to tell USADA what to charge for their services? There were 19 drug tests each for Mayweather and Pacquaio, if I'm not mistaken. USADA also does more than just drug testing. Mayweather Promotions was the lead promoter and footed the bill. This is just more speculation from you since you can't go on the merits of the case. You are speculating that the amount means something was fishy. That's a big leap to judgement that you are making.

are you kidding me..
wada clearly states that an IV can be used to for a number of reasons, one of which is to mask use of prohibited substances, other is to distort the biological passport, the first being to increase plasma volume levels.. frankly 50ml per 6hrs isn't enough for the first

So you are arguing that 50ml per 6 hours is enough to distort the biological passport? Then why is that WADA's allowed amount? Does that make any sense to you at all?

distorting biological passport, hmm.. didn;t usada introduce a steroidal module test that that tests for athlete's urine for any sign of steroid abuse, and the marker values in urine or the urinary profile of athlete is part of the athlete's biological passport..

so according to wada, using iv can distort urine?
but didn;t you initially say that it can't i.e that fluid didn't need to use IV to hide prohibited substances as he was getting a urine test. not a blood test.
sigh nvm

Nope, that's not what I said. You are having a really hard time following, bro. You mask a urine test by diluting. If the sample is tested to make sure that it isn't diluted, how is there masking?

anyway. yes 50ml per 6hours doesnt seem much to increase plasma levels, so the minimum 50ml per 6hours can more refer to as the minimum to able to hide the use of prohibited substances.

Again, you are pointing to the amount that is allowed by WADA. Why would they allow the amount that can be used to mask? Wouldn't they disallow that amount and make the bare minimum the amount that would not be able to mask? Are you following?

that makes the whole thing more su****ious does it not.. fluid uses IV which can possibly mask use of prohibited substances in the blood.. but his buddies usada give him a urine test instead.. but anyway according to wada use of IV can change some property of the urine

*sigh*. EPO is found by using a urine test. The blood test checks for hematocrit level. They had a partial urine sample from before the IV, as well as an undiluted urine sample from after the IV.

can use of vitamins along with the IV mask dilution of urine? didnt fluid take a mixture of saline in vitamins in the IV?

Bro! Vitamins are used to color the urine. Do you think coloring urine is going to fool USADA? Their tests are far beyond being fooled by an eye test for the urine's color.

maybe because the IV masked the sample, and that was allowed.. by usada..

shut?

As I stated above, masking is done by diluting. The samples were tested to make sure they weren't diluted.

no by far as it's not a shut case.. I mean what exactly did fluid need 750ml for
you fluid fans constantly make stuff up to somehow fit wada category for it being exceptional

The point is, no one knows without his medical records. What we do know is that the TUEC and WADA didn't have a problem with what they found in the medical records.

ah the onus is on you to provide me with why you justify him needing an IV over oral rehydration.. but all you did is speculate on possible conditions he has as to why he used IV over oral to fit wada code.

Wrong again. That's not how it works. It's YOU that has the burden of proof.
The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the duty of a party in a trial to produce the evidence that will shift the conclusion away from the default position to that party's own position.

The default position is that his health condition allowed him to take the IV under WADA's rules. You are attempting to shift it away from that position with no medical records. Good luck!

i mean there are all sorts of red flags

* fluid took much more than 50ml per 6ml, which can be enough to mask prohibited substances or alter biological passport

I think I've already cleared this up with you. Masking is done by diluting. The samples passed the specific gravity test.

* it wasn't done in a medical facility but rather his own home

With the DCO present and following the rules of the ISTUE for a retroactive TUE, which means none of this is pertinent.

* it wasn't just saline he took, but an IV of 250ml vitamin solution and 500ml saline solution, where taking vitamins can mask dilution of urine also

Vitamins can color the urine. This would be like me handing you a bottle of water, adding food coloring, and telling you it's fruit punch.

* fluid paid much more than the standard fee for usada testing.

Because you know what the proper amount was that should have been paid. Just ignore the information about the partial urine sample and the specific gravity test to speculate.

* on the matter of dehydration as the cause of him needing 750ml IV..he could've rehydrated orally that amount.. was he severely dehydrated enough that he wasn't able to move in order to rehydrate by mouth?.. no.. he looked fit as fiddle with nice glowing skin and bright welled up fluidy eyes.

You don't know what his medical condition was, so this is more speculation. IF he had hyponatremia, then IV use would be recommended. That's just an example since none of us have his medical records.

so many flags.. if i was fluid himself and I was genuine about the condition I had, I would openly release medical records to public to outright proof that I am clean.. sigh. .. but fluid did not.

For what? To satisfy the few PacRoaches who still have a problem with this? Bob Arum said it's a non issue. Pacquiao declined to protest. What does that tell you? Only us few numbskulls here are still talking about it.

But how about this. If Pacquiao really had a full-thickness rotator cuff tear, which was a far bigger story than this one, why doesn't he release the MRI? Under your logic, he should. He got the doctor to come out and make a statement about it. Why not go further and release the MRI???

and what happend that time when he, or was it fluid snr, accused pac of taking roids etc, and pac team filed a defamation case against them.. team pac got subpeona on fluid.. but rather than go to court fluid settled out of court instead..

why was fluid scared of going to court?

USADA released over 2,000 pages of his medical records due to the subpoena. If he had ever tested positive for anything in the past, the independent WADA accredited lab would have had to notify WADA immediately. Hauser is full of ****, and you're eating it up. USADA already tore him a new one and proved that he has no idea what he is talking about. This is a guy who thinks 55% hematocrit level can be reduced to 47% by taking 750ml of IV fluid. Even I can prove that's incorrect. He obviously didn't do his research.

specific gravity test is basically a density test of urine,.. sigh
and fluid paid $130k.. much more than normal fee

etc.

poor bj penn

You're like a broken record. If the sample wasn't diluted (and no, coloring doesn't matter...lol), it isn't going to mask PEDs.

[travestyny]

Keep up the good fight. Beating up t@rds is fun!

Man, I just can't resist. It's ****** of me...but it helps pass the time on a lazy Sunday morning.

[Kigali]

I've never said I know what ailment he had. I said WADA stated that there are cases in which IV rehydration is more efficient than oral hydration. Therefore, it's quite possible that he had one of these ailments, isn't it? I don't think any of us would know unless we have his medical records, which by the way were enough to convince the independent TUEC and WADA itself. That's the part you conveniently ignore, unless you want to speculate further that he paid off the TUEC and WADA.



So you should be able to tell USADA what to charge for their services? There were 19 drug tests each for Mayweather and Pacquaio, if I'm not mistaken. USADA also does more than just drug testing. Mayweather Promotions was the lead promoter and footed the bill. This is just more speculation from you since you can't go on the merits of the case. You are speculating that the amount means something was fishy. That's a big leap to judgement that you are making.



So you are arguing that 50ml per 6 hours is enough to distort the biological passport? Then why is that WADA's allowed amount? Does that make any sense to you at all?



Nope, that's not what I said. You are having a really hard time following, bro. You mask a urine test by diluting. If the sample is tested to make sure that it isn't diluted, how is there masking?



Again, you are pointing to the amount that is allowed by WADA. Why would they allow the amount that can be used to mask? Wouldn't they disallow that amount and make the bare minimum the amount that would not be able to mask? Are you following?



*sigh*. EPO is found by using a urine test. The blood test checks for hematocrit level. They had a partial urine sample from before the IV, as well as an undiluted urine sample from after the IV.



Bro! Vitamines are used to color the urine. Do you think coloring urine is going to fool USADA? Their tests are far beyond being fooled by an eye test for the urine's color.



As I stated above, masking is done by diluting. The samples were tested to make sure they weren't diluted.



The point is, no one knows without his medical records. What we do know is that the TUEC and WADA didn't have a problem with what they found in the medical records.



Wrong again. That's not how it works. It's YOU that has the burden of proof.
The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the duty of a party in a trial to produce the evidence that will shift the conclusion away from the default position to that party's own position.

The default position is that his health condition allowed him to take the IV under WADA's rules. You are attempting to shift it away from that position with no medical records. Good luck!



I think I've already cleared this up with you. Masking is done by diluting. The samples passed the specific gravity test.



With the DCO present and following the rules of the ISTUE for a retroactive TUE, which means none of this is pertinent.



Vitamins can color the urine. This would be like me handing you a bottle or water, adding food coloring, and telling you it's fruit punch.



Because you know what the proper amount was that should have been paid. Just ignore the information about the partial urine sample and the specific gravity test to speculate.



You don't know what his medical condition was, so this is more speculation. IF he had hyponatremia, then IV use would be recommended. That's just an example since none of us have his medical records.



For what? To satisfy the few PacRoaches who still have a problem with this? Bob Arum said it's a non issue. Pacquiao declined to protest. What does that tell you? Only us few numbskulls here are still talking about it.

But how about this. If Pacquiao really had a full-thickness rotator cuff tear, which was a far bigger story than this one, why doesn't he release the MRI? Under your logic, he should. He got the doctor to come out and make a statement about it. Why not go further and release the MRI???



USADA released over 2,000 pages of his medical records due to the subpoena. If he had ever tested positive for anything in the past, the independent WADA accredited lab would have had to notify WADA immediately. Hauser is full of ****, and you're eating it up. USADA already tore him a new one and proved that he has no idea what he is talking about. This is a guy who thinks 55% hematocrit level can be reduced to 47% by taking 750ml of IV fluid. Even I can prove that's incorrect. He obviously didn't do his research.



You're like a broken record. If the sample wasn't diluted (and no, coloring doesn't matter...lol), it isn't going to mask PEDs.

....You won

It's over....leave him and his agenda alone....he will not listen.

[travestyny]

....You won

It's over....leave him and his agenda alone....he will not listen.

You're right. I'm tired of typing the same thing over and over. There's no point.