Haymon lost 430 million in one year!

[LaidOut]

Stop acting like you know ****. You don't. Game of Thrones is estimated to cost $60 million per season. Ten episodes is $6 million each. And that's not even on free tv. And you're saying PBC has to spend $8 mil for a effing Lara vs Zaveck fight?

this. any way you slice it, Haymon f@#ked it all up (intentionally or otherwise).

[bigdunny1]

I never said they would do it overnight or in a few years, but they needed to run it like UFC. Your own belts, and best matchups possible, consistent schedule, consistent rules and ring size, etc.. They could have done that stuff from day 1 just like UFC, pride, and bellator have done

Exactly. And they should of started out smaller maybe 1 network and lowered the costs so they weren't so deep in the hole after just one year. Instead of building slowly they tried a overnight hostile takeover of the sport buying up time buys on half a dozen networks overpaying fighters that can't even draw fans in their own hometowns, Haymon bought a private plane to fly his fighters around. Just foolish spending. They thought just putting boxing on network TV would attract casual fans. Ignored factors like quality matchups, smart fighter purses, proper promotions, ect. Just a cluster phuk business model that showed no structure or purpose.

They had east coast fighters fighting on the west coast and vice versa. You had Broner and Porter fighting in vegas instead of Ohio when both are from Ohio. Hell why was Leo Santa Cruz fighting in Brooklyn when he's got a huge Mexican fanbase? That fight should of been on the west coast in front of his fans instead he's got the biggest fight of his career fighting on the east coast for the first time of his career. The fight drew only 9k fans in Brooklyn. You telling me if the fight wasn't in LA they don't draw way more then 9k fans to the arena?

[Eff Pandas]

I never said they would do it overnight or in a few years, but they needed to run it like UFC. Your own belts, and best matchups possible, consistent schedule, consistent rules and ring size, etc.. They could have done that stuff from day 1 just like UFC, pride, and bellator have done

There are things that are similar & things that are different with the UFC vs PBC. The MMA world needed champions. Boxing needs less champions. PBC adding belts does little to help them at this point or in the foreseeable future. The 4 world titles we currently have mean less than they ever have. What does a 5th belt mean?

Most of the rest of the stuff you mention is nitpicking & things that would have little impact on anything. This is a long game move. You don't get down to controlling ring size til you're far deeper in the plan. Boxing is such a clusterf#ck with all the people with their hands in the cookie jar you need to focus on the big stuff to gain market share & influence. Nothing you mention helps with that.

The best possible matchups is something you wanna stretch out to help build these names into names people will know. Thurman vs Porter means less in July 2015 then July 2016 cuz not as many cats watching knew either of those guys a year ago. If you are putting on 50+ cards a year you can't have all your name guys fighting each other all the time. You gotta stretch things out. Sadly as a boxing fan boxing is still largely a success or failure based on name value so creating names or growing names into bigger names is a part of the business. I hope that changes, but its not gonna change anytime soon. And PBC seems to put less value on growing names than anyone else with name guys, but they haven't totally left that mindset out of their plan & rightfully so.

[Eff Pandas]

And you're saying PBC has to spend $8 mil for a effing Lara vs Zaveck fight?

They didn't spend $8M on Lara vs Zaveck & I didn't say that, Lennie.

[bigjavi973]

"Overland Park-based Waddell & Reed Financial Inc. is in the midst of laying off employees in an effort to cut costs after the company saw first-quarter income drop 44.2 percent."

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascit...or-exodus.html


im positive this is also Al Haymon's fault!!!!!

[Eff Pandas]

they should of started out smaller maybe 1 network and lowered the costs so they weren't so deep in the hole after just one year. Instead of building slowly they tried a overnight hostile takeover of the sport buying up time buys on half a dozen networks

This is valid & I see the argument for it. I can see the argument from taking over as much TV time as they could to not allow anyone to try to elevator off of their plan & also to influence guys coming up to sign with them or a PBC promoter so they'd get more TV fight options. So this is just a situation where you're going for more or less impact on the marketplace.

When PBC succeeds or fails we can talk about how this was a risky, but winning move or a horrible unnessary risk PBC took that led to their downfall. I think we are too influx to deem it right or wrong yet cuz we know so little about PBC's intent or how that has changed or could change as we move forward, but like I said I see the argument for or against the path PBC took.

[bigdunny1]

Haymon wasn't even able to produce PPV stars. His fighters are inactive as ever. Garcia, Thurman, Porter have become one-fight-a-year fighters. Lara is still fighting Martirosyan and Zaveck type opponents. Jacobs is fighting Mora. He can easily make Thurman vs Garcia if he wanted to with the kind of money available.

Yup the money is drying up that's why you seeing so many of his top fighters basically having the longest layovers of their careers. Fighters with no injuries are fighting now once a year because PBC can't afford to pay them. You pay guys 1 mil to fight bums last year you now have to ask them to take a major paycut or sit out while you try and get Showtime to pony up the money. He has all the PBC network dates that he already paid for he just can't afford to pay the top fighters so that's why these shows are headlined by prospects and B and C class fighters while the A list guys are sitting on the sidelines. See Jacobs after a career win in Dec in a fight that went 1 round and he suffered no injury won't fight again until MAYBE sept losing all the momentum he earned from that fight. These guys were all fighting more regularly BEFORE PBC. They fought many times initially on PBC when they had money. But the money is running low and now all the top guys are basically once a year fighters. Danny fought in Jan and it's Aug and he still don't have fight lined up and Haymon owns ALL OF THE TOP Welterweights.

[DJ_Quaaludes]

The problem I've always had with the PBC was the total lack of transparency and clarity.

Sure, you have haters out there (Steve Kim, others) who bask in the opportunity to bash anything PBC does regardless if it is positive or negative. However, even a positively biased observer can't make heads or tails out of how the PBC is 'making money' or hopes to. Some are right in that there is definitely more to this then just the publicly released numbers show, but from the beginning people questioned how this investment and model would make money and payoff in the end, and there still aren't any answers.

While I can get behind the idea that the goal is to spend money now, make money later, I'm not sure how paying a guy like Lara who is a complete no-draw 700K for the Vanes rematch no-one asked for (I think he earned less than half that for the first fight) makes any business sense.

The PBC lacks that central figurehead such as Dana White, Roger Goodell, etc. who could answer these questions. All PBC has in this regard is Haymon, who himself remains in the shadows. Look, when you are an advisor lurking in the shadows trying to do right by yourself and other boxers, that's fine. When you are trying to build a brand and an entire league of sport you need someone that can field questions, concerns, and comments from the public.

As far as I can tell, the PBC operates much in the same as Haymon himself. There has also been a lot of confusion regarding how the PBC treats outside fighters and organizations. Does the PBC mention the other sanctioning belts? Does the PBC create it's own belts? Other than the 'PBC is bringing free boxing back!' taglines there is no consistent clear message on what the PBC is doing or hopes to do.

Also, you have a product that is split between a ton of different networks with no set schedule (Bounce TV??) and no consistent commentary team (each channel has their own lineup). Unfortunately while the goal appeared to be to centralize boxing talent and the sport itself, it so far has only seemed to further fractionalize it as now we have PBC 'haters' and PBC 'fanbois'.

[Eff Pandas]

The difference is UFC was starting with a sport that nobody really knew about. Boxing has been established for years. You're acting like PBC had to invent a new sport.

Thats a bad thing actually for a new company. Its always better to get into a business with fewer competitors.

A industry with less hands in it is easily to garner market share & influence. So sure PBC doesn't have to invent boxing, but it has to contend with all sorts of promoters, networks, managers, boxers, alphabet groups & commissions who already got their hands in the cookie jar.

[Eff Pandas]

You can buy contracts out you dumb ****.

Eat a **** f#cking momo.

And who's bought out a HBO contract recently? And how much of a hassle is it to buy guys out of promoter contracts? I mean it virtually never happens with the big names cuz the promoters want so much money.

Heck, for that kind of $ he probably could of easily just bought top rank, and any other company he wanted.

And you call me dumb. Sure maybe he coulda bought out TR's entire roster & TR woulda been sitting on nice money, but then PBC is putting on shows at the Local Engineers Union Hall or can't pay their fighters. TR gots a f#cking excellent roster.

With that kind of money he could of done whatever he wanted.

As with some of you momo, glass half empty, guy with 2 L's is a bum, boxing fans I think you are underestimating the value of anything & all things boxing related. If boxing was in a UFC format it'd be worth way more than $4B. Obviously it isn't & obviously you couldn't put it into a UFC format for probably less than 2 or 3 times whatever the multiple billion dollar value would be if it was in a UFC format cuz you are dealing with so many different individuals who'd all be trying to get paid & would maximize their own upside to the determinant of any party attempting a takeover.