Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[IronDanHamza]

dude, you're not very good at trolling

Toney was not WORSE, he fought better opposition and when you opposition is stiffer, your limitations are exposed and fights are tougher

Fighting McCallum, Nunn, reggie johnson for titles is a 3 leagues higher than fighting robert allen, sergundo mercado and trinidad for your titles.

its called common sense...try using it.

the stiffer the competition, the tougher the fights


Hopkins fought no names, washed up champions, and former welterweights during his title reign

You're telling Toney is not worse against movers than Hopkins? He absolutely is worse. Toney is terrible when faced against movement.

It has nothing to do with competition. Toney struggled and lost at every level he fought at. From the bottom to the top.

Trinidad is a better fighter than Reggie Johnson. And IMO Johnson beat Toney.

You keep harping on about Hopkins "poor opposition" but there's no way Toney goes through Hopkins title reign undefeated.

[IronDanHamza]

yea montell griffin isnt better than those guys....GTFOH....Hagler struggled with movement and speed but Thats like saying Hagler wouldnt beat Hopkins or toney because he lost to willie monroe and billy watts but totally ignoring he beat tommy hearns, duran, minter etc.

thats a weak azz argument...fighters take losses and styles make fights.

you idiots keep bringing up toney's worst but not Hopkins worst

prime for prime is both guys at their best, and at their best I believe toney was the better fighter and beat better fighters....Hopkins was fighting nobodies

Toney isnt leading the poll right now because he ******...deal with it

Pretty sure he's referring to Tiberi and Thadzi not Griffin.

Well, Hagler beat top level opposition convincgly and in dominant fashion unlike Toney. And do you actually rate Hagler? His biggest wins are against "welterweights" much like Hopkins.

What's Hopkins worst? Fights into his 40's?

[therealpugilist]

You're telling Toney is not worse against movers than Hopkins? He absolutely is worse. Toney is terrible when faced against movement.

It has nothing to do with competition. Toney struggled and lost at every level he fought at. From the bottom to the top.

Trinidad is a better fighter than Reggie Johnson. And IMO Johnson beat Toney.

You keep harping on about Hopkins "poor opposition" but there's no way Toney goes through Hopkins title reign undefeated.

newsflash, a fighters opponents and level of opposition is the best way to assess the skill level and limitations of a fighter.....Hopkins fought crap competition at 160 until the end of his title reign. When he fought trinidad it was his first elite( he was elite at 147 and 154 but a good fighter at 160 nothing special) title challenger in like 13-14 defenses....thats pathetic and simiar to GGG

how would I know if Hopkins is "better" versus movers when he went 12 years between fighting elite middleweights with good speed.....Jones in 93 and taylor in 2005, I dont consider Tito an elite middleweight because his record there is spotty. Also robert Allen got 3 title shots for christs sake...he was wholly average and troubled Hopins IN HIS PRIME with his speed and movement.


In no way is trinidad at 160, better than reggie johnson....johnson would have been a tougher time with Johnson, who was a natural middleweight with speed, power, and elusiveness.....hell I'd favor johnson over trinidad at 160..styles make fights

bro....Hopkins title reign at 160 is nothing to write home about

[therealpugilist]

Pretty sure he's referring to Tiberi and Thadzi not Griffin.

Well, Hagler beat top level opposition convincgly and in dominant fashion unlike Toney. And do you actually rate Hagler? His biggest wins are against "welterweights" much like Hopkins.

What's Hopkins worst? Fights into his 40's?

Hagler also lost to boogaloo watts and willie the worm monroe....by your logic, he loses to Robert Allen and Joe Lipsey right? same level of fighter right?

repeating the names tiberi and thadzi wont change fact that Toney also has better wins at 160 than Hopkins and fought and beat better fighters

those are facts...deal with it

[SouthPawHitman]

Lights Out

[therealpugilist]

Pretty sure he's referring to Tiberi and Thadzi not Griffin.

Well, Hagler beat top level opposition convincgly and in dominant fashion unlike Toney. And do you actually rate Hagler? His biggest wins are against "welterweights" much like Hopkins.

What's Hopkins worst? Fights into his 40's?

losing to a no name in the beginning of his career, going the rest of it until he fought taylor without taking many risks...pricing himself out vs jones in a rematch....why? because he knew he couldnt adjust to Jones' style, speed, elusiveness.

not adjusting to Jones, who is the only truly elite talent he faced

in fight one with Robert Allen getting outboxed and on the verge of losing before falling out the ring....he fought this wholly average guy 3 times

he spent his entire ibf title reign fighting nobodies....go look at who Toney was fighting for the ibf title

Hopkins is a special case, like Archie Moore, Mike McCallum, Joe Walcott, some fighters can remain elite at an advanced age. you cant give him all the credit in the world for his wins, then try to discredit his loses.

Jermain Taylor was nothing special......Hopkins is supposed to have this high ring IQ, technician but couldnt figure of Taylor with 2 tries



also Hopkins finds a way out win he is on his way to losing......Robert allen, chad dawson, flopping in other fights...its pathetic

[IronDanHamza]

Hagler also lost to boogaloo watts and willie the worm monroe....by your logic, he loses to Robert Allen and Joe Lipsey right? same level of fighter right?

repeating the names tiberi and thadzi wont change fact that Toney also has better wins at 160 than Hopkins and fought and beat better fighters

those are facts...deal with it

Hagler wasn't at championship level then but Hagler's another story I don't rate Hagler that highly either.

Of course a lot higher than Toney though.

[therealpugilist]

Only one of those quotes was said by me...
I've noticed you seem to have some sort of extreme hatred for Toney....
Did he make you look a b*tch in sparring or something???

If we're talkin top tier opposition....
Why does most of Bhops middleweight reign consist of small shot bums??
He had a trilogy with Robert ****in Allen......


Now stop ducking my questions you ****** coward.
What would happen If bhop was fightin Jirov, Holyfield Sam Peters etc...


Prime for Prime Toney was faster, stronger, more skillful, had a better chin and most importantly he was BRAVER then bhop....

The worst thing about bhop is when he knows he gonna lose he just gives up.
He either becomes a spoiler or fakes an injury like a true ****heel...
Toney never gives up....

before the flop, allen could have beat him...Hopkins didnt face top tier middleweights most of his title reign

[IronDanHamza]

newsflash, a fighters opponents and level of opposition is the best way to assess the skill level and limitations of a fighter.....Hopkins fought crap competition at 160 until the end of his title reign. When he fought trinidad it was his first elite( he was elite at 147 and 154 but a good fighter at 160 nothing special) title challenger in like 13-14 defenses....thats pathetic and simiar to GGG

how would I know if Hopkins is "better" versus movers when he went 12 years between fighting elite middleweights with good speed.....Jones in 93 and taylor in 2005, I dont consider Tito an elite middleweight because his record there is spotty. Also robert Allen got 3 title shots for christs sake...he was wholly average and troubled Hopins IN HIS PRIME with his speed and movement.


In no way is trinidad at 160, better than reggie johnson....johnson would have been a tougher time with Johnson, who was a natural middleweight with speed, power, and elusiveness.....hell I'd favor johnson over trinidad at 160..styles make fights

bro....Hopkins title reign at 160 is nothing to write home about

You're talking to me like I'm a Hopkins fan, I'm not.

I agree his reign isn't special. Although Toney wouldn't go through it undefeated.

[therealpugilist]

Hagler wasn't at championship level then but Hagler's another story I don't rate Hagler that highly either.

Of course a lot higher than Toney though.

you're in the minority on the bolded

anyone with a brain has Hagler top 5 all time at middleweight

he wasnt at the championship level then because the MFer didnt get a title shot til like 50 fights in. its not like how it is today when these guys get title shots before they even fight a legit top ten contender