Excessive holding, please clarify what constitutes a foul?

[jmrf4435]

Just needing some clarity in official rules regarding clinching. I see some fighters utilize it as an effective strategy ( Floyd, Wlad, postol, Ward) and get praised for defensive strategy, others get criticized and penalized.

How many times a round is clinching a point deducting offense?

[jmrf4435]

And if it's up to "discretion of the ref" that's BS

[_Maxi]

To me it doesn't necessarily have to do with the total amount of clinch/holding, but with its relation to the total amount of encounters in the inside between the fighters.

Examples. You have Mayweather Pacquiao. Mayweather clinched about 10-15 times in total. But how many times did Pacquiao get close? maybe twice that amount. So Floyd clinched him half the times that Pacquiao had him in the inside. Which is a lot. 10-15 clinches doesn't sound like much but if you compare it to the actual action in the inside, it's a lot.

Similar happened in Postol-Matthysse. This was not a case of 70+ clinches like Mayweather-Maidana I, or 100+ like some of Wlad's fights, but it was still a lot because everytime Matthysse had him on the inside he clinched.

I would absolutely ban clinching.

[ИATAS]

Unfortunately nobody knows! It's one of boxing's biggest mysteries!

It's a rule that for reasons unknown to anyone, is rarely ever enforced and when it is it's usually too little too late. Some refs break fighters the moment they get close (Joe Cortez, Kenny Bayless), other refs ignore it entirely (see virtually all Wlad Klitschko fights). Clinching is technically against the rules so that means it's entirely up to the ref to enforce the rules or not.

[jmrf4435]

"I would absolutely ban clinching."

I think it's ideal for slowing down momentum on an opponent. Wlad and Floyd do this incredibly, they never let anyone get a rhythm going. Every time someone starts a combination they are not going to finish it because it we be clinched shut. It's amazing yet frustrating

[jmrf4435]

"Unfortunately nobody knows! It's one of boxing's biggest mysteries!"

LOL, heavyweights of old loved to clinch as well. I think it's just part of boxing!!

Separating foul from strategy is impossible it seems.

If you were a trainer would you teach your fighter how to clinch at times? I would!!

[The tucker]

My take on it is if you get hurt or dropped then by all means clinch all you want but holding just to stop an attack should be considered a foul.

[_Maxi]

My take on it is if you get hurt or dropped then by all means clinch all you want but holding just to stop an attack should be considered a foul.

This.

To me excesive means that you can't use it as a tactic.

[ИATAS]

I would absolutely ban clinching.

I wouldn't go that far. I think clinching is apart of boxing strategy and of fighting, however there should be clear rules about how/when you can clinch. For example, smart refs, like Steve Smoger, they understand that you can be inside, with one arm around the guy and engaged in a "clinch", but punching with the other hand. As long as you're doing work (actual punching), he lets them go at it. Dumb refs like Joe Cortez don't understand this concept and break fighters up the moment they are touching each other, regardless if one guy or both guys are throwing punches with their free hands (which also totally kills inside fighting).

So I would say as long as the fighters are being active while clinching, it's perfectly fine. Or if two fighters throw a punch at the same time and naturally come together, it's alright if they clinch for a second or two and reset themselves. It's sort of a "mutual clinch" and we see two fighters do this all the time.

I would also say as a defensive strategy, you should be allowed to clinch when hurt....but only up to a certain point, meaning if you do it repeatedly and excessively not letting go or let's say for arguments sake you do it three time in a row, you get deducted a point. Do it again, two points, again and you're DQ'd. Whatever the case, there needs to be a clear rule book on clinching.

[craigus1990]

Clinching and fighting within the clinch have been part of this sport since it was first realised. Before the Queensbury rules were introduced, wrestling your opponent was very much as important as punching them.
I believe that clinching is a great part of the game and boxers should learn to fight within the clinch. However, most referees are useless and as soon as fighters commence a clinch, they break them up, making the fight seem very stop/start.
I think that excessive clinching should be if the fighter clinches, but never has any intention of fighting within the clinch... and are constantly just trying to take a break from the action.
A referee should tell the boxers to fight in the clinch and to fight out of it, and if they don't make a good effort to do so, they should be deducted points.... but they never do...