Comments Thread For: Vargas-Salido Brawl Averaged 833K Viewers on HBO, Peaks at 954K

[LOCOMEX89]

Good numbers on this fight. Especially since these guys are not named Canelo, GGG, Kovalev, Crawford, or Ward. HBO's top 5 guys.

Both guys will hopefully get fights on HBO before the end of the year.

[BennyBlanco]

PBC on ESPN
800k
1.073m
1.21m
428k*
482k*

So you're comparing FOY candidate Santa Cruz-Mares on Saturday night to Alexander-Martinez on Wednesday night and thinking those should generate similar ratings? And you're calling other people idiots?

Showtime about 60% down from last year but you ignore those guys falling off a cliff overnight in ratings.

60%? Stop doing drugs, bro.

Avg audience 2015 Showtime Championship Boxing 562K
Avg audience 2016 Showtime Championship Boxing 449K

That's a drop of 20%. And it's a partial year anyway, so the trend is incomplete.

But HBO only down if you go back a half a decade. SMH

Half a decade? Try 20% down in TWO YEARS.
Avg audience 2014 Boxing After Dark: 858
Avg audience 2015 Boxing After Dark: 730
Avg audience 2016 Boxing After Dark: 716

[bigdunny1]

Excellent question.

Pre-PBC: avg audience 2014 Showtime Championship Boxing 593K
Post-PBC: avg audience 2015 Showtime Championship Boxing 562K

Showtime lost about 5%.

I don't know where the hell you getting those numbers. Showtime prior to PBC was damn near neck and neck with HBO in the ratings. but look at fighters last fight on Showtime before they fought on PBC and then what they are doing now that they have returned on Showtime. For example Wilder in 2015 BEFORE PBC did 1.24m viewers, Broner last fight before PBC did 1m his fight before that did 1.3m. 1 year later going back to Showtime Wilder did 500k and Broner 1 year from his last Showtime fight did 500k. Only 1 fight has hit 500k this year and I think only 1 has cracked 400k. The rest are in the 200-300K ranges (MORE THEN HALF what Boxing After Dark just did). They are way down in ratings but somehow HBO doing the same ratings it did last year and you have to go back 5 years to find a 30% drop is a bigger deal? when Showtime is seeing their top fighters in 1 year dropping OVER 60% LMAO

[Mitchell Kane]

Huge difference. Apples and oranges. Not even worth comparing a world championship fight featuring a FOY fighter on HBO against an ESPN card featuring a non English-speaking 8-0 fighter in the main event. So many differences that it's not even worth comparing.

Here are numbers which are worth comparing:

Avg audience 2011 Boxing After Dark: 1,014
Avg audience 2012 Boxing After Dark: 792
Avg audience 2013 Boxing After Dark: 875
Avg audience 2014 Boxing After Dark: 858
Avg audience 2015 Boxing After Dark: 730
Avg audience 2016 Boxing After Dark: 716

Lost 30% of the audience since 2011. No way to spin those numbers. Perhaps that's why HBO is cutting its boxing programming so significantly.

That is a significant drop from 2011-2016.

Just thinking about the landscape of boxing at that time, 2011 was the year Greenburg was out at HBO and Hershman was hired, and when Espinoza was inserted at SHO and Golden Boy moved a lot of their fights to SHO.

It would make sense if that had some affect on HBO's ratings, though you certainly can't explain away all of HBO's ratings drop during that time period with that.

Obviously HBO has had a drop in their boxing budget was probably another factor.

[Mitchell Kane]

[COLOR="Red"]Avg audience 2015 Showtime Championship Boxing 562K
Avg audience 2016 Showtime Championship Boxing 449K

That's a drop of 20%. And it's a partial year anyway, so the trend is incomplete.

Do you have a list of SHO fight cards in 2015 and 2016 and the individual ratings?

[bigdunny1]

And here is the part that is really funny. Wilder and Broner and the rest of these high paid Showtime cards that can't even beat HBO Boxing After Dark ratings how much did they cost? Wilder and Broner paid over 1 mil each. HBO just paid Vargas and Salido 250k total. Showtimes triple header 2 weeks ago paid Lara himself 700k for a fight where the entire card did what 400k or less? Almost HALF of what Vargas and Salido just did. Not only is Showtime's ratings in the toilet they are ACTUALLY paying more recently then they did a few years ago LMAO

[Motorcity Cobra]

Do we know what they're bringing in from these sponsorship deals?

Lance Pugmire reported some of the overall advertising numbers from last year (roughly $463k per show for the period of March to September), but while the PBC may have added more sponsors since then, they've also had a significant drop in some of the time slots and quality of fights since September of last year.

The PBC/ESPN ratings are down 2-3 times what they were last year.

CBS is basically not involved in PBC anymore and is ONLY airing this fight because Showtime paid for it and it will be produced under Showtime Boxing. PBC's goofy ramps, refs with cameras in their headbands and PBC announcers will not be involved. So if CBS is only involved in one fight in the last 9 months and it is specifically paid for and produced by Showtime Boxing what the F makes you think CBS is going to pay PBC to produce boxing for them? If they want boxing and want it on CBS they can just do it with Showtime Boxing they don't need PBC. And just because PBC started off with only Corona as a advertiser and now have a few more don't mean jack they lose millions each show with the advertisement dollar according to LA Times being just 462K show.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...203-story.html

Yet they paying fighters double to quadruple that in fighter purses alone. Advertisement dollars is directly tied to ratings and the ratings have drastically fallen off since last year. If the cost compared to revenue they get back weren't so out of whack they wouldn't be canceling shows and sending their low C class fighters to fill these cards. CBS wouldn't of canceled their PBC daytime series and PBC wouldn't of cut their ESPN monthly series to now just a summer series featuring guys like Beterbiev when just last year it featured guys like Danny Garcia and Keith Thurman.

Television advertising tracking firm Kantar Media said Premier collected $12.5 million in total ad revenue from 27 fight telecasts from March through September, an average of $462,963 per show. Premier also pocketed some undisclosed license fees from Spike TV for six fight shows telecast during that period....Spike TV paid Premier up to seven figures in licensing fees for each of the two cards, which featured main-event victories by welterweights Andre Berto in March and Amir Khan in May.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...203-story.html

Eventually, they reached a complex two-year agreement in which Haymon would pay handsomely for air time but NBC would invest as well, paying for some of the production costs, delivering Al Michaels, Marv Albert and Sugar Ray Leonard as on-air talent, and providing promotional assets.

Other revenue I never see reported is licensing fees for foreign broadcast. PBC has had cards on ITV, BoxNation & Sky Sports. They also closed a deal with SKY NZ

Boxing fans are in for a treat this year, with SKY announcing today it has secured the rights to dozens of top-level bouts during 2016.

The deal includes all the Showtime Championship Boxing and Premier Boxing Champions events controlled by Los Angeles based Integrated Sports from January until 31 December.”

The deal includes 12 Showtime Championship Boxing bouts – one per month – and more than 45 Premier Boxing Champions matches

https://www.sky.co.nz/-/mk_pressrelease_160113

The sirius xm satellite radio deal.

I know they've had to adjust from the mistakes in their first year. If you look at the #1 boxing network (HBO) does it look like they're trying to stay in the boxing business? They're more concerned with Jon Stewart and Bill Simmons. They've invested more money into Bill Simmons than they have boxing. They're the sole investor in his new website https://theringer.com/ They're at the point where Postol-Crawford is PPV and they can't afford/won't pay for Lomanchenko-Walters. That would've been one card on HBO championship boxing three years ago. Boxing isn't going to disappear from TV. With HBO's shoestring budget and they're top stars surrounded by Haymon fighters, they'll eventually have to make a decision. Work on his terms or decide boxing isn't worth the trouble. I think HBO is in more trouble than PBC. But like I said. We'll have to agree to disagree and revisit this in about a year or so. But I'll bookmark this so we can continue the conversation later this year. Or I'll start a group where we can talk more in depth about it.

[Mitchell Kane]

And here is the part that is really funny. Wilder and Broner and the rest of these high paid Showtime cards that can't even beat HBO Boxing After Dark ratings how much did they cost? Wilder and Broner paid over 1 mil each. HBO just paid Vargas and Salido 250k total. Showtimes triple header 2 weeks ago paid Lara himself 700k for a fight where the entire card did what 400k or less? Almost HALF of what Vargas and Salido just did. Not only is Showtime's ratings in the toilet they are ACTUALLY paying more recently then they did a few years ago LMAO

Well, it would be interesting if someone woud go through and for every fighter that has fought on SHO before AND after fighting on a PBC card, to list their PBC ratings and then list their SHO ratings pre/post PBC.

[bigdunny1]

So you're comparing FOY candidate Santa Cruz-Mares on Saturday night to Alexander-Martinez on Wednesday night and thinking those should generate similar ratings? And you're calling other people idiots?

Leo Santa Cruz vs Jesus Ruiz 2015 BEFORE PBC did 1m viewers on Showtime. A year later coming back to Showtime a few months ago did 267k viewers against Kiko Martinez. And I already explained the last 2 ESPN cards were week day cards that's why they have asterisks on them you idiot. Those numbers are pretty terrible in their own right but if you want to only compare Sat night this weekend was a over 50% drop. If you want to compare the weekday fights it's still down almost 20%. 20% drop NOT YEARS later but months later less then 1 year later 20% down from week day cards and 50% down from the WORST Sat night card and 70% down from the last Sat night card.

[Mitchell Kane]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...203-story.html



Other revenue I never see reported is licensing fees for foreign broadcast. PBC has had cards on ITV, BoxNation & Sky Sports. They also closed a deal with SKY NZ


https://www.sky.co.nz/-/mk_pressrelease_160113

The sirius xm satellite radio deal.

I know they've had to adjust from the mistakes in their first year. If you look at the #1 boxing network (HBO) does it look like they're trying to stay in the boxing business? They're more concerned with Jon Stewart and Bill Simmons. They've invested more money into Bill Simmons than they have boxing. They're the sole investor in his new website https://theringer.com/ They're at the point where Postol-Crawford is PPV and they can't afford/won't pay for Lomanchenko-Walters. That would've been one card on HBO championship boxing three years ago. Boxing isn't going to disappear from TV. With HBO's shoestring budget and they're top stars surrounded by Haymon fighters, they'll eventually have to make a decision. Work on his terms or decide boxing isn't worth the trouble. I think HBO is in more trouble than PBC. But like I said. We'll have to agree to disagree and revisit this in about a year or so. But I'll bookmark this so we can continue the conversation later this year. Or I'll start a group where we can talk more in depth about it.

Those are networks, I'm talking more about sponsors.