Comments Thread For: Povetkin Not Backing Down: We'll Do Everything To Get Wilder!

[gmc_rfc_06]

You don't really have to do a whole lot to get the fight.

All he had to do was not be a drug cheat and it was his fight to have. Apparently fighting clean was too much of a demand, so **** off.

[Boxing Logic]

Theres also a pattern here as well .The smarter you are and post on this subject ,the more retaliation of empty come backs is going to head your way .Its kind of like trying to explain and reason with ants !

Lol I've read NSB for awhile, today was my first time posting. I don't like to use the analogy of ants because people will try to play the race card, but I agree that a majority of posters on NSB are either below average intelligence or, I hope for them, just really biased. You can fix bias and it doesn't affect your whole life, but if you're just ******, I mean, you can probably educate yourself too so I won't say you can't change that, but it has more negative effects on your life and it takes more work to change.

To their credit though, while there were some dumb responses from shadow, I was actually expecting a lot of people to use the length as an excuse for why they couldn't refute any of the points. Sometimes when you make so many good points, people know they're wrong but don't want to admit it, so they just say your post was too long and they didn't even bother reading and all that. But no one has done that so far so I give them credit for that. It seems like most people at least read it and some did their best responding.

But yeah, I agree with you and that's why I made my NSB name "Boxing Logic." I've noticed from reading this forum that it's mostly just fools arguing for page after page not because there's anything to actually argue about, but because they make massive errors in logic constantly. Like:

"Neither GGG or Wilder has fought anyone, so Wilder deserves the same credit as GGG!" It's like how are people so ****** or biased that they can't figure out for themselves that one is getting ducked constantly, while the other isn't?

Or "Canelo did 900k pay per view buys, GGG did 90k, so Canelo deserves a 90/10 split!" They really don't understand that you can't compare the low estimate of one PPV with the high estimate of another from two different sources? Or that PPV buys go up exponentially for big fights? It would be like saying that because Floyd did 600k or however many PPV buys against Berto, that when Floyd vs Manny did 4 mil, that means Manny was worth 3.4 mil, and Floyd was worth 600k.

It doesn't work like that. People pay for the fight, the matchup, not for the individual boxer. If GGG fought Cotto or even a well known name like Amir Khan if there was a 154 Amir Khan, his buys would go up exponentially as well. So is it that people really don't get these things or they're just dumb?

And you see that in every topic on NSB. They equate a boxer not moving up in weight to fight another fighter with their fighter not fighting someone in his own weight class. They want us to give immediate credit for Ward moving up to LHW to "fight Kovalev" even though we still haven't seen that fight and Ward demanded at least two tuneups first, but then demand other fighters go up and fight Ward their first fight at the new weight class.

Just very basic things that don't take any time to figure out, they should just be obvious to everyone, but these arguments go on for 30 pages sometimes. I probably shouldn't have even made an account but I wanted to introduce a little logic to the boxing discussion here lol.

[Fangedgrowl]

We dont consider Pedvetkin a top HW anymore all his victories vs. elite HW have no merit. He should retire hes old and useless without drugs ; there no motivation beating a fraud.The only good thing that has come out of this is that the HW's that suffered losses at the hands of this cheat have been vindicated morally and I hope they sue this euro piece of trash and stay out of Russia.

exactly! With the issue of the russian track federation and doping and now this, Screw Povetkin. He loses his ranking and gets suspended atleast 6 months. The Russians are cheating just to compete. Blame it on that bully leader of theirs *****. Screw Povetkin , Don't cheat you scum bag.

[Boxing Logic]

Ok kim, whatever makes you happy.

It doesn't make me happy. Boxing is a business, and in any business, the dumber the consumer, the more they get taken advantage of by the business. Boxing as a business knows it has this huge base of ducker apologists who view boxing through a racial lens and will defend anything their boxers do, so boxing leverages this fact to feed all the fans crap.

Basically boxing knows that no matter how ****ty a product they give fans, a percentage of boxing fans will attribute any criticism to racism, and become even more passionate in watching the boxers who duck and defending them. To these fans, the fact that these boxers duck and never fight in entertaining fights won't even matter or register because their minds will be so preoccupied with defending them from what they've been tricked into believing is racism, and this is what keeps them watching these boxers who don't provide good fights and buying their tickets, and that is what allows boxing to keep giving fans nothing but awful fights but still make a profit off it.

Smart consumers don't repeatedly pay for bad products and defend the people responsible for providing bad products. One of the reasons I wanted to post here actually was to encourage fans to demand more of boxing. I would be happier of all boxing fans of all races woke up to how boxing works and started defending the fighters who fight the best, instead of defending the fighters who duck the best. If fans all came together and did that, that's what would help fix boxing. But to certain boxing fans, there is one thing more important than good fights and fighting the best, and as long as that's true and they support those fighters no matter how bad the product they offer is, boxing will continue to suffer.

The problem is I think a lot of you are so biased you don't even register that it's a bad product from a neutral perspective because you're not neutral, you have a rooting interest based on skin color, so even if the fight is horrible, as long as you have a fighter of your own skin color to root for, you feel suspense and excitement watching.

I know what that's like from the Rigondeaux-Donaire fight. I was anti Donaire at that time because I felt he ducked Rigondeaux and Mares for four fights in a row, and I really wanted Rigondeaux to win to hopefully help make better fights in the future (lol!). So while a lot of people thought Rigondeaux-Donaire was boring, I was entertained the whole fight because I had a rooting interest beyond the action.

I imagine that's what it's like for this group of racial boxing fans any time there's a black fighter fighting. There's always this built in rooting interest to either beat fighters of other races, or beat an inferior fighter of the same race so he can keep climbing the ladder to being a successful black boxer, which this group of racial boxing fans gets all their boxing enjoyment out of.

I haven't experienced this for myself but judging from the comments and the patterns of who this group of black boxing fans root for, that's my best guess as to how it works. They're so obsessed with the racial side of things, the boxing doesn't even matter. The boxing is just an after thought, a mere vehicle for these fans to live out fantasies of racial competition through. So while neutral fans are frustrated when Peter Quillin ducks GGG because that robs fans of a good fight, these fans are actually happy because they don't want a white fighter to beat a black fighter, they would rather just break even on that match by never having it happen so that the Peter Quillin card in their racial deck can be played later against someone else that he can beat.

That's my guess how it works, anyway. Boxing promoters have realized it works this way and this has given them a way to make money without having to put their fighters in tough fights. It's like if a stock broker could find a way to make money investing without ever having to risk any of their investments. If people are ****** enough to pay for crap because they have an emotional complex surrounding that crap, then a good businessman keeps offering that crap while holding onto their valuable assets until a later date, and that's what boxing has turned into.

So in a way true boxing fans can really blame these racial boxing fans for the fall of boxing.

[TripleGFightFan]

Including Meldonium

[juggernaut666]

Lol I've read NSB for awhile, today was my first time posting. I don't like to use the analogy of ants because people will try to play the race card, but I agree that a majority of posters on NSB are either below average intelligence or, I hope for them, just really biased. You can fix bias and it doesn't affect your whole life, but if you're just ******, I mean, you can probably educate yourself too so I won't say you can't change that, but it has more negative effects on your life and it takes more work to change.

To their credit though, while there were some dumb responses from shadow, I was actually expecting a lot of people to use the length as an excuse for why they couldn't refute any of the points. Sometimes when you make so many good points, people know they're wrong but don't want to admit it, so they just say your post was too long and they didn't even bother reading and all that. But no one has done that so far so I give them credit for that. It seems like most people at least read it and some did their best responding.

But yeah, I agree with you and that's why I made my NSB name "Boxing Logic." I've noticed from reading this forum that it's mostly just fools arguing for page after page not because there's anything to actually argue about, but because they make massive errors in logic constantly. Like:

"Neither GGG or Wilder has fought anyone, so Wilder deserves the same credit as GGG!" It's like how are people so ****** or biased that they can't figure out for themselves that one is getting ducked constantly, while the other isn't?

Or "Canelo did 900k pay per view buys, GGG did 90k, so Canelo deserves a 90/10 split!" They really don't understand that you can't compare the low estimate of one PPV with the high estimate of another from two different sources? Or that PPV buys go up exponentially for big fights? It would be like saying that because Floyd did 600k or however many PPV buys against Berto, that when Floyd vs Manny did 4 mil, that means Manny was worth 3.4 mil, and Floyd was worth 600k.

It doesn't work like that. People pay for the fight, the matchup, not for the individual boxer. If GGG fought Cotto or even a well known name like Amir Khan if there was a 154 Amir Khan, his buys would go up exponentially as well. So is it that people really don't get these things or they're just dumb?

And you see that in every topic on NSB. They equate a boxer not moving up in weight to fight another fighter with their fighter not fighting someone in his own weight class. They want us to give immediate credit for Ward moving up to LHW to "fight Kovalev" even though we still haven't seen that fight and Ward demanded at least two tuneups first, but then demand other fighters go up and fight Ward their first fight at the new weight class.

Just very basic things that don't take any time to figure out, they should just be obvious to everyone, but these arguments go on for 30 pages sometimes. I probably shouldn't have even made an account but I wanted to introduce a little logic to the boxing discussion here lol.

Well your first mistake was "Boxing Logic " as your user name ,your basically saying try and chop me down....

Theres alot of good posters here just not as nearly as much ss the less smarter ones ,if that was the case ALLforums would seize to exist since everyone would know what their talking about and there would be nothing to discuss EX : where in the history section that some ppl believe 6'0 200 pound Zorra Folley can beat 6'7 250 Vitali Klitchko ...and its an ACTUAL debate

I was more reffering to the Wilder situation but agreed on all your other points anyway .... so if i used the term RED ants that would not be racist ? I think most can figure out that an insect cant be compared to anyones ethnicity , but then again ?

[kafkod]

Nice to see a reasoned response. Tests are supposed to be cut and dry though I thought. Since it's not naturally occurring, why didn't they just have the rules that if any shows up at all, it's a failed test? I guess maybe it can be naturally occurring or you can get some into your body without taking it? Otherwise why would they have a threshold like that?

And it's not really su****ious because he admitted he took it last year. Everyone else fought him while he was on it, including Klitschko... it's a bad look that Wilder made no effort to fight Klitschko during their primes, and now is using meldonium as an excuse to cancel the Povetkin fight when the last heavyweight champion had no problem fighting Povetkin while he took meldonium.

I honestly think people's initial reactions were influenced by the way the Wilder team reacted. They faked all this outrage and everyone kind of just went along with it. It helped their cause that Povetkin is Russian (the dangerous "other" to American audiences), and they threw in "PED" and "failed test." But when you really look at it, the substance was legal last year, and it was below the allowed limit, so what's su****ious? What's the grey area? Either it's over the limit and he failed, or it's under the limit and he didn't. And even if it had been over the limit, it can take 6 months or they don't even know how long to get out of a fighter's system, so the WBC really should have had a grace period with a higher allowed amount for the first six months of this year to let the trace amounts get out of fighter's bodies to avoid situations like this.

It really just seems like they've created a firestorm over what turned out to be nothing. Trace amounts of a "PED" that is not really a PED and in any case has always been legal up until recently. What Floyd did for the Pacquiao fight flushing his system to mask god knows what was in my opinion infinitely worse because now we'll never know what kind of PEDs he masked, and all the people defending Wilder now didn't care about that because Floyd is black I guess. What if Manny had heard about Floyd doing that, and canceled the fight on fight night? Would these people be defending Manny if he did that? No way. But Wilder canceling the fight over a micro dose of meldonium before the WBC even does their investigation? That's cool for a guy who never fights anyone and was supposed to make this his signature "prove the haters wrong" fight where he proved he would actually fight someone with a pulse? Instead he found the weakest "PED" excuse in the history of PEDs to drop the fight at the very first opportunity. It just seems like a pattern.

And like you said he probably didn't want to go to Russia. So there it is, he didn't really want to go through with the fight, and he took an opportunity to get out of it. Whether he didn't want the fight because of Povetkin, or because of Russia, my point is he clearly didn't want it that badly because he didn't even wait five minutes before saying "AHA! Fight's off! Canceled not postponed! I'm a warrior it's Povetkin's fault PEACE!" It was really see through from my perspective.

It wasn't Wilder's decision to cancel, or postpone the fight when when Povetkin's test result got flagged. That decision was made by the WBC acting on advice from VADA.

We really should wait now and see what the result of the investigation is. If Povetkin is cleared, I presume he will still be Wilder's mando and Wilder will have to fight him or lose his title. As we've just seen with Canelo and GGG, the WBC are taking mandatory obligations seriously now.

[MC Hammer]

Andre Berto tested positive for testosterone before Ortiz II and it was stated to be consistent with contamination, but he was suspended immediately, and many of the posters here labeled him as a cheat. Now we have a guy who has obviously been taking a banned substance a substance where contamination is not an issue, but the same posters who would crucify Berto are all more than happy to support the obvious cheater, and label the victim a coward for not wanting to give a chance to a cheat.

[taste]

[QUOTE=kafkod;16744038]It wasn't Wilder's decision to cancel, or postpone the fight when when Povetkin's test result got flagged. That decision was made by the WBC acting on advice from VADA.

Thanks for that homie. Blows a big ****ing hole in almost everything 'boxing logic' has dreamed up regarding this fight. What's the 'logic' in blaming this cancellation on Wilder? If Pov hadn't been caught don't we think the fight would still be going on?

[Boxing Logic]

It wasn't Wilder's decision to cancel, or postpone the fight when when Povetkin's test result got flagged. That decision was made by the WBC acting on advice from VADA.

That's not true though. I remember Wilder's camp saying "fight is CANCELED" while Povetkin's side was saying it was postponed. Eventually the WBC said it was off because they didn't have time to finish their investigation in time or something like that, but at the beginning the WBC hadn't made a final ruling and Wilder's side was already lobbying for it to be canceled completely before we even had the facts.

Like imagine this was GGG-Canelo, and Canelo had the meldonium. GGG's side would be like, well maybe it's just an error, maybe we can work something out, maybe he can just pay a penalty to us to have the fight go on, we're still waiting to see on the details but the fight is still on for now...

When you really want the fight to happen, you wait, you hold out hope. When you don't want the fight to happen, you react like Wilder did. I don't really know how to explain it in detail but you could just tell. And this is coming from someone who actually did think Wilder wanted the fight, once he finally signed it, because of how he was talking, and because of the size difference. A few years ago I would have picked someone like Povetkin to beat him because of his chin and defense, but after going 12 rounds against Stiverne never getting hit once on the chin, I feel like he's learned how to use his length and keep shorter guys from ever getting to his chin. Plus the few shots he does take now don't stagger him as easily I feel. I leave it to others to speculate on how he improved his chin.

So with how he was talking, looking at his performance against Stiverne and how Povetkin struggled against Klitschko, I thought he would KO Povetkin and that he was confident. But after the way he shut the fight down immediately, I do think either he or Showtime, perhaps because of the US TV rights issue and the writing that was on the wall about Povetkin possibly taking the belt to HBO, was very happy to see Povetkin "failed" the test.