Comments Thread For: Povetkin Not Backing Down: We'll Do Everything To Get Wilder!

[Boxing Logic]

[QUOTE=taste;16744074]

It wasn't Wilder's decision to cancel, or postpone the fight when when Povetkin's test result got flagged. That decision was made by the WBC acting on advice from VADA.

Thanks for that homie. Blows a big ****ing hole in almost everything 'boxing logic' has dreamed up regarding this fight.

Except it's not true.

espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/15551134/wbc-postpones-deontay-wilder-alexander-povetkin-fight-failed-drug-test

The WBC said it postponed the fight. It was Wilder's camp that told the media no it's canceled, not postponed.

Do you not remember? It was just a week ago.

"The World Boxing Council is diligently addressing the positive test result from the [WBC's] clean boxing program for mandatory challenger Alexander Povetkin," WBC president Mauricio Sulaiman said in a statement. "Keeping the priority of safety and also the principle of justice, the WBC will continue the investigation into the case. Consequently, the event scheduled for May 21 in Moscow is hereby officially postponed. The WBC will be releasing more information in the coming days regarding the final ruling on the matter."'

The WBC left the door open, pending investigation, for the fight to still happen, but Wilder's team was having none of that and wanted to shut it down right away. They were almost gleeful about Povetkin's test and calling the fight off. You could just tell, I can't believe I'm the only one who noticed that.

[umop-ap!sdn]

Everyhing to get Wilder and apparently everything to BEAT Wilder as well.

POSvetkin... what a piece of...

*end post*

[Boxing Logic]

Well your first mistake was "Boxing Logic " as your user name ,your basically saying try and chop me down....

Theres alot of good posters here just not as nearly as much ss the less smarter ones ,if that was the case ALLforums would seize to exist since everyone would know what their talking about and there would be nothing to discuss EX : where in the history section that some ppl believe 6'0 200 pound Zorra Folley can beat 6'7 250 Vitali Klitchko ...and its an ACTUAL debate

I was more reffering to the Wilder situation but agreed on all your other points anyway .... so if i used the term RED ants that would not be racist ? I think most can figure out that an insect cant be compared to anyones ethnicity , but then again ?

Lol I guess my name is asking for it but I wasn't thinking that way. I'm not good at many things in life at all but one thing I am is a left brain thinker, good at logical thinking and I spend way too much time reading about boxing so I know everything that goes on. You combine knowledge of a ton of information about a subject with the ability to deduce things well and you should be able to analyze that subject pretty well. And I saw how so many NSB threads were lacking good analysis that I just thought the name would be accurate.

Is there a way to add a friend's list on here or anything so I can add you? I don't want to get drawn into too many repetitive arguments with people who don't get it here in the future, so if there's a way to just discuss with certain people who add to the discussion that would be cool.

Is saying "red ants" racist? Well just use your brain dude. We now know, thanks to Canelo, that there are such things as red Mexicans, so naturally, there must be red black people out there too. Al Haymon probably signed like 8 of them this week I'm just guessing. So if you say red ants, red black people might get on your case.

The good news is, apparently a lot of... traditionally skin-toned Mexicans... don't like Canelo's red Mexicanness, so if you ever do get in trouble with red black people, you should get a lot of the black black people on your side.

That's how it works. Have you paid attention to Golden State vs Oklahoma City Thunder? There is so much hatred on twitter against Golden State and Klay Thompson and Steph Curry, including comments like "light skinned will never be great at basketball." I saw that one. This is like the most exciting team, led by the best role models of maybe any black players or any players in the whole league, but all they get it hate now. And what I've learned my lighter skinned friends is that they actually get a lot of hate within the community from darker skinned blacks.

I've also noticed this push within the NBA media and fans to elevate Draymont Green as this star player. No one can argue Curry is their best player, but I get the sense a lot of either black former players or black fans couldn't accept that what they call a light skinned team won a championship with its two best players being what they call light skinned, so now they want to push the narrative that Draymont Green is actually the second best player on that team.

Maybe I'm just imagining that, and I'm not the best guy to ask because I don't have NBA prime ticket or whatever it's called. But, the Warriors are on ESPN and TNT a lot in the season, and it's obvious to me Green is good at defense and that's basically it. Thompson is also very good at defense for his position, but he's also elite at offense. There's no question Thompson is better. He's the splash brother, not Green, for a reason.

But I saw a tweet that said "Thompson owns the NBA playoff record for points in a quarter, and that's their third best player" or something like that. It's like the media just can't let it be that a nice, respectful team has success. Somehow they have to elevate the guy who is kicking people in the balls multiple times, screaming like a mad man, whining to refs constantly, and has more technical fouls than anyone in the playoffs. They have to make it seem like he is the engine that runs the team. I'm pretty sure the guy who won the MVP this year is the one who runs their team. And every time he gets on a roll with threes and the golden state court goes crazy, I see plenty of energy.

I think it's actually Igodala who is their 3rd best player. He is the one that guards like Durant and probably Lebron if they go to the Finals. I'm not a big basketball fan but it's pretty obvious. Igodala is a better shooter than Green, better dribbler, just as good defensively. Only thing Green does better is rebound but that's because he plays a different position. But for sure Thompson is the 2nd best player on that team lol. Not really close.

I guess anyone with a punch could in theory beat Klitschko, just like anyone with a punch could in theory beat anyone, especially at heavyweight. But Klitschko would definitely be a huge favorite.

No wait I forgot, Folley is black. My fault. I spoke too soon. Those people are right. Klitschko has a white boy's chin and Folley has that black lives matter black power. Yo Klitschko, do all lives matter or black lives matter?

[QUOTE]Black lives matter! Please just stop hitting me![QUOTE]

That's what I thought.

Please! I've already been counted out! Kenny Bayless, please stop him!

I'm sorry Vlad, the world needs to see that black lives matter for just a few more punches.

That actually is what would have happened.

[kafkod]

[QUOTE=Boxing Logic;16744092]

Except it's not true.

espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/15551134/wbc-postpones-deontay-wilder-alexander-povetkin-fight-failed-drug-test

The WBC said it postponed the fight. It was Wilder's camp that told the media no it's canceled, not postponed.

Do you not remember? It was just a week ago.



The WBC left the door open, pending investigation, for the fight to still happen, but Wilder's team was having none of that and wanted to shut it down right away. They were almost gleeful about Povetkin's test and calling the fight off. You could just tell, I can't believe I'm the only one who noticed that.

I remember what was said and I also remember thinking that maybe Wilder's promoter insisted on using the word "cancelled" instead of "postponed" because he wanted Ryabinski's winning purse bid to be voided so he could have another shot at bidding for the fight himself and bringing it to the States if Povetkin got cleared.

Otherwise, it's just a semantic argument really, because the decision on whether the fight eventually happens or not will be made by WADA and the WBC, not the promoters.

[Ray*]

It doesn't make me happy. Boxing is a business, and in any business, the dumber the consumer, the more they get taken advantage of by the business. Boxing as a business knows it has this huge base of ducker apologists who view boxing through a racial lens and will defend anything their boxers do, so boxing leverages this fact to feed all the fans crap.

Basically boxing knows that no matter how ****ty a product they give fans, a percentage of boxing fans will attribute any criticism to racism, and become even more passionate in watching the boxers who duck and defending them. To these fans, the fact that these boxers duck and never fight in entertaining fights won't even matter or register because their minds will be so preoccupied with defending them from what they've been tricked into believing is racism, and this is what keeps them watching these boxers who don't provide good fights and buying their tickets, and that is what allows boxing to keep giving fans nothing but awful fights but still make a profit off it.

Smart consumers don't repeatedly pay for bad products and defend the people responsible for providing bad products. One of the reasons I wanted to post here actually was to encourage fans to demand more of boxing. I would be happier of all boxing fans of all races woke up to how boxing works and started defending the fighters who fight the best, instead of defending the fighters who duck the best. If fans all came together and did that, that's what would help fix boxing. But to certain boxing fans, there is one thing more important than good fights and fighting the best, and as long as that's true and they support those fighters no matter how bad the product they offer is, boxing will continue to suffer.

The problem is I think a lot of you are so biased you don't even register that it's a bad product from a neutral perspective because you're not neutral, you have a rooting interest based on skin color, so even if the fight is horrible, as long as you have a fighter of your own skin color to root for, you feel suspense and excitement watching.

I know what that's like from the Rigondeaux-Donaire fight. I was anti Donaire at that time because I felt he ducked Rigondeaux and Mares for four fights in a row, and I really wanted Rigondeaux to win to hopefully help make better fights in the future (lol!). So while a lot of people thought Rigondeaux-Donaire was boring, I was entertained the whole fight because I had a rooting interest beyond the action.

I imagine that's what it's like for this group of racial boxing fans any time there's a black fighter fighting. There's always this built in rooting interest to either beat fighters of other races, or beat an inferior fighter of the same race so he can keep climbing the ladder to being a successful black boxer, which this group of racial boxing fans gets all their boxing enjoyment out of.

I haven't experienced this for myself but judging from the comments and the patterns of who this group of black boxing fans root for, that's my best guess as to how it works. They're so obsessed with the racial side of things, the boxing doesn't even matter. The boxing is just an after thought, a mere vehicle for these fans to live out fantasies of racial competition through. So while neutral fans are frustrated when Peter Quillin ducks GGG because that robs fans of a good fight, these fans are actually happy because they don't want a white fighter to beat a black fighter, they would rather just break even on that match by never having it happen so that the Peter Quillin card in their racial deck can be played later against someone else that he can beat.

That's my guess how it works, anyway. Boxing promoters have realized it works this way and this has given them a way to make money without having to put their fighters in tough fights. It's like if a stock broker could find a way to make money investing without ever having to risk any of their investments. If people are ****** enough to pay for crap because they have an emotional complex surrounding that crap, then a good businessman keeps offering that crap while holding onto their valuable assets until a later date, and that's what boxing has turned into.

So in a way true boxing fans can really blame these racial boxing fans for the fall of boxing.

Two advice for you Kim.

(1) Look yourself in the mirror first, because you are one of the things wrong with the boxing media (Hint - favouritism).

(2) you can put this post up as an article directed at one of your favourites.

[New England]

we'll do everything but fight clean!

[juggernaut666]

[QUOTE=Boxing Logic;16744143]Lol I guess my name is asking for it but I wasn't thinking that way. I'm not good at many things in life at all but one thing I am is a left brain thinker, good at logical thinking and I spend way too much time reading about boxing so I know everything that goes on. You combine knowledge of a ton of information about a subject with the ability to deduce things well and you should be able to analyze that subject pretty well. And I saw how so many NSB threads were lacking good analysis that I just thought the name would be accurate.

Is there a way to add a friend's list on here or anything so I can add you? I don't want to get drawn into too many repetitive arguments with people who don't get it here in the future, so if there's a way to just discuss with certain people who add to the discussion that would be cool.

Is saying "red ants" racist? Well just use your brain dude. We now know, thanks to Canelo, that there are such things as red Mexicans, so naturally, there must be red black people out there too. Al Haymon probably signed like 8 of them this week I'm just guessing. So if you say red ants, red black people might get on your case.

The good news is, apparently a lot of... traditionally skin-toned Mexicans... don't like Canelo's red Mexicanness, so if you ever do get in trouble with red black people, you should get a lot of the black black people on your side.

That's how it works. Have you paid attention to Golden State vs Oklahoma City Thunder? There is so much hatred on twitter against Golden State and Klay Thompson and Steph Curry, including comments like "light skinned will never be great at basketball." I saw that one. This is like the most exciting team, led by the best role models of maybe any black players or any players in the whole league, but all they get it hate now. And what I've learned my lighter skinned friends is that they actually get a lot of hate within the community from darker skinned blacks.

I've also noticed this push within the NBA media and fans to elevate Draymont Green as this star player. No one can argue Curry is their best player, but I get the sense a lot of either black former players or black fans couldn't accept that what they call a light skinned team won a championship with its two best players being what they call light skinned, so now they want to push the narrative that Draymont Green is actually the second best player on that team.

Maybe I'm just imagining that, and I'm not the best guy to ask because I don't have NBA prime ticket or whatever it's called. But, the Warriors are on ESPN and TNT a lot in the season, and it's obvious to me Green is good at defense and that's basically it. Thompson is also very good at defense for his position, but he's also elite at offense. There's no question Thompson is better. He's the splash brother, not Green, for a reason.

But I saw a tweet that said "Thompson owns the NBA playoff record for points in a quarter, and that's their third best player" or something like that. It's like the media just can't let it be that a nice, respectful team has success. Somehow they have to elevate the guy who is kicking people in the balls multiple times, screaming like a mad man, whining to refs constantly, and has more technical fouls than anyone in the playoffs. They have to make it seem like he is the engine that runs the team. I'm pretty sure the guy who won the MVP this year is the one who runs their team. And every time he gets on a roll with threes and the golden state court goes crazy, I see plenty of energy.

I think it's actually Igodala who is their 3rd best player. He is the one that guards like Durant and probably Lebron if they go to the Finals. I'm not a big basketball fan but it's pretty obvious. Igodala is a better shooter than Green, better dribbler, just as good defensively. Only thing Green does better is rebound but that's because he plays a different position. But for sure Thompson is the 2nd best player on that team lol. Not really close.

I guess anyone with a punch could in theory beat Klitschko, just like anyone with a punch could in theory beat anyone, especially at heavyweight. But Klitschko would definitely be a huge favorite.

No wait I forgot, Folley is black. My fault. I spoke too soon. Those people are right. Klitschko has a white boy's chin and Folley has that black lives matter black power. Yo Klitschko, do all lives matter or black lives matter?

[QUOTE]Black lives matter! Please just stop hitting me!

That actually is what would have happened.

You have to go into someones profile to add them , look on request sent in yours then just check yes!

I dont follow any other sports besides MMA/football unless i have $$$$ on it.

Folley would be a 100 to 1 under dog against either Klitchko !

[THEFRESHBRAWLER]

Never? Are you sure lol?

Man, I'm convinced 99% of the disagreements on NSB come from amnesia-bias and faulty logic.

1. Floyd Mayweather hired the guy (Ariza) yall all said supplied Pacquiao with PEDs, and then hired Memo Heredia who has bragged on camera about being able to create undetectable PEDs, for the biggest fight of the century, and then afterwards needed a TUE for using obscene amounts of saline which is known to mask PEDs, and yall defended him like crazy. So at least be consistent and don't act like this has never happened.

2. Meldonium was not illegal last year when Povetkin admitted he took it. No one knows exactly how long it stays in your system, so his claim that he hasn't taken it since last year is possible. The only thing that potentially disproves this is that his prior three tests came back clean, but then again tests are inconsistent (see Lance Armstrong) and it's possible he had traces in his system this whole time since he took it last year, but it only showed up in the most recent test because of inconsistent testing.

3. The amount in his system is still below the WADA allowed limit, which is where all the confusion is coming from. It's like testosterone with USADA, most athletes have much higher amounts than the average person, but as long as it's below the 4:1 or 6:1 ratio or whatever it is, then you pass the test. It's the amount that matters. Of course, meldonium isn't naturally occurring like testosterone, but that's still how the tests work. If it's below the allowed limit, then isn't that, well, allowed? How is it a failed test if the test passes the guidelines? It can't pass the allowed guidelines, but still be failed. Can you explain this? It still confuses me.

4. Povetkin was supposed to be Wilder's mandatory last year, and Wilder has yet to face another top boxer, giving many fans the impression that he's another Al Haymon "businessman" rather than a fighter, and that he will avoid every top fighter out there so long as he has a way to. This is what caused many people to assume he'd duck Povetkin in the first place. Then he didn't fight him last year, requested an interim defense instead, which added to people's doubts about him. Then in his interim defense, he fought a total nobody. This added to people's doubts.

5. Now, everyone knows that a test isn't officially failed until the A sample is over the allowed limit, and then the B sample is tested to confirm. Povetkin's A sample wasn't over the limit, which still confuses me how it was a failed test at all then, but let's assume I'm missing something there and the A sample really was failed. In that case, the fight is supposed to be delayed, not canceled, until the B sample is tested to confirm. If Wilder was dying to fight Povetkin, he would want Povetkin's B sample tested, and hope that it came back negative. He would say stuff like "this looks bad but I'm hoping the B sample comes back negative and I hope the fight is still on!"

Instead, Wilder immediately called for the fight to be canceled before the B sample even got tested, and also demanded he get paid 4.6 million dollars to not do the fight. Povetkin and his team are still saying they'd like to fight Wilder, do all the drug tests again, and obviously be clean for the fight and fight Wilder. Meanwhile Wilder's team keeps acting like they never want to fight him even if the WBC says his levels were below the allowed limit, and even if he's clean.

6. So even though many people jumped to conclusions, when you get into the actual details, and you know Wilder's history and the history with many Al Haymon fighters, all of this adds more doubts in people's minds that Wilder either didn't want this fight, or is happy to not be going through with the fight.

7. Another interesting aspect is that Showtime signed Anthony Joshua to a contract just a few weeks ago, while at the same time they were having trouble signing a contract with Povetkin's team to air the Wilder-Povetkin fight. It's very possible that Showtime saw the writing on the wall, that if Povetkin won he would take their only heavyweight title over to HBO, so it's possible Showtime is the one pushing to just cancel this fight all together. I think many people are sensing that there's more going on here than just the biggest fight available to Wilder right now being canceled over microdoses of a "PED" that was legal only a few months ago, and that studies have shown has no more impact than a placebo. It seems like there's more going on.

8. Most of all, the reason Wilder has fans who don't like him is because, as a convert from football and Haymon's only promising heavyweight prospect, he was protected more than any other Haymon fighter besides Gary Russel jr. coming up, and at age 30, he's still to fight a top heavyweight. People just want to see good fights.

Even Gennady Golovkin gets criticized a lot, and he's tried to fight every top fighter in his division. He chases anyone in his division who could be considered a threat at all. He signed to fight Pirog, the guy who knocked Danny Jacobs out. He called out Sergio Martinez, Peter Quillin before he got KO'd, Danny Jacobs, Miguel Cotto, Canelo Alvarez, Felix Sturm back in his prime at middleweight. That's what people want. There will always be arguments about Andre Ward at 168 and whether GGG didn't want it, or if Andre Ward's promotional issues and request for tuneups prevented it, or if, what my theory is, the money just wasn't there for a PPV fight until after the Lemieux fight when GGG was already on the path to Canelo and Ward had moved up to LHW, but the one thing everyone respects is that GGG at least tries to fight every top guy in his division, and even make the big pay per view fights at 168 like Chavez jr. and Carl Froch a few years ago.

That's what champions and top fighters are supposed to do at minimum. There can be debates about going up in weight, but when it comes to your own weight class, you are supposed to go after the best fighters and the biggest fights.

So it's really that simple, it's common sense. If a fighter like GGG who does that still gets criticism, then obviously Deontay Wilder is going to get criticism because he never does that. He never went after either Klitschko during their primes. I haven't heard him call out Anthony Joshua for later this year once. The only guy he's shown any interest in fighting is Tyson Fury because he views him as the weakest champion, but that's kind of the point. Real fighters go after all the best guys, they don't just fight bums for years until they think they see a weak link to go collect another title. Bomb Squad against either prime Klitschko would have been a great fight, but now we'll never get to see it because Wilder never showed any interest. So yes, it's hard to support "champions" like that who try to build their careers off fighting cab drivers and picking up one vacated belt. And trying to collect a 4.6 million dollar check without fighting is a terrible look. If they can't find a new date for the fight later this year, then Wilder should get reimbursed for his training expenses in my opinion. That would be fair. But getting the full purse without fighting when you won't even make an effort to reschedule, even though your opponent is willing to do drug testing? That's not what champions do.

So there you go man. It's not as simple as you want to make it look. And remember my first point, none of yall were complaining when Floyd pulled his ish in the biggest fight of the century, and yall know Memo Heredia offers a lot better stuff than just meldonium.

His fighter Lucian Bute just got caught, and for yall saying he didn't work with Bute this fight, Bute tweeted a photo that said Memo worked with him this fight, so get your facts straight and don't act like others are the ones being inconsistent when it's you guys. I think most boxing fans are pretty consistent here. We've seen that Wilder is Haymon's most protected fighter ever, he never goes after the best fights available in his division, he delayed the Povetkin fight as long as possible, and then he canceled that fight before Povetkin's B sample even got tested even though the A sample was below the allowed limit too, even though the substance that did show up in a micro amount was legal just a few months ago and isn't even known as an effective PED.

It's a pattern with him, man.

"I never seen anything like this " is basically a figure of speech SMH. It seems that only defense y'all have for Povetkin is to blame Haymon and Mayweather as usual. You dropped like 10 names in your rant just to justify a cheater. Those names you mentioned have nothing to do with this. Povetkin is responsible for what ever is in his body. He's a cheater and a coward. You are too for defending him

[Boxing Logic]

Two advice for you Kim.

(1) Look yourself in the mirror first, because you are one of the things wrong with the boxing media (Hint - favouritism).

(2) you can put this post up as an article directed at one of your favourites.

Who am I favoring? This is what I'm talking about, you think we're the ones playing favorites but it's you. Everything is relative. When you walk upside down on the ceiling, it looks like people standing on the floor are upside down, but really it's you. I'm trying to explain that is what is happening with many boxing fans, perhaps yourself. Just because you continue to walk upside down on the ceiling so you continue to think it's us who are upside down doesn't change the facts. Until you understand that it's possible to be totally upside down and think it's someone else when it's you, until you actually ask yourself the question of whether it's you and self reflect, then you won't ever know.

[Kagami Taiga]

If that is Steve Kim, he's has done a hell of a job of proving to everyone why he's literally one of the worse writers in boxing right now. Utterly embarassing.