Comments Thread For: Hopkins: No Excuses, Golovkin Should Fight Kovalev!

[bug0092]

October 9, 2015:

As the finishing touches were being made to Golovkin's October 17th unification with IBF champion David Lemieux - Ward's promoter, Roc Nation Sports Chief Operating Officer David Itskowitch, emailed an official offer to Golovkin's promoter, Tom Loeffler of K2 Promotions.

According to Loeffler , the offer was rejected because K2 had already finalized Golovkin's upcoming HBO Pay-Per-View fight with Lemieux - and the winner would become the mandatory challenger to the November 21st showdown between WBC champion Miguel Cotto and Mexican superstar Saul "Canelo" Alvarez.

Loeffler indicates that their strategy, since last year, has been to unify the middleweight division.

However, during that period they did explore potential fights at super middleweight with both Carl Froch and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.

When it came it Ward, Loeffler and Golovkin's trainer Abel Sanchez made it very clear that a catch-weight of 164-pounds would be required. They also feel their boxer deserves a bigger portion of the monetary split. Roc Nation's offer was an even 50-50 deal.

Golovkin came under fire for his catch-weight demand. Loeffler explained that Golovkin fighting at the full weight limit of 168 would only be considered if the event was financially worth the risk. They felt a fight with Ward would not have generated the same financial benefits as a fight with Froch or Chavez.

“We’ve always said when we first got to HBO that we wanted to unify the titles. We said we’d move up to 168 for mega events. Fights with Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. and Carl Froch would have been big events and that’s why we were willing to move up and we were willing to go down for a Floyd Mayweather fight before but we always said we wanted unification fights,” Loeffler told BoxingScene.com.

Michael Yormark, president and chief of branding and strategy for parent company Roc Nation, disputes some of the information being circulated in the press.

The Roc Nation executive reached out to BoxingScene.com to respond, on behalf of his company and their fighter, to some of the published statements from Golovkin's team members.

According to Yormark, Roc Nation was never afforded the opportunity to discuss weight, the financial terms, potential dates, which fighter was the A-side or any other factor - because their offer was turned down in 36 minutes.

"I respect Tom and he's a nice man, but as it relates to this issue - he's way off-base," Yormark told BoxingScene.com. "The chatter that you've been hearing from Triple G's camp is inappropriate, inaccurate and we need to clear this up immediately."

"Andre Ward has always fought the best opponents that were available, and that holds true today as well. We want to fight the best and we obviously consider Triple G a formidable opponent. We made an offer to fight Triple G. It was the number one priority on Andre's list."

"We made him an offer, prior quite frankly, to knowing about the fight with Lemieux. But regardless of that fight, the offer was very, very clear - that he and Andre would both have one fight before they fought each other, and they would fight each other sometime in the first half of 2016. So obviously the fight with Lemieux would continue to move forward and the next fight would be Andre in 2016.

"They received the offer and in 36 minutes we got a response which basically stated 'we cannot accept the offer and we're going in a different direction.' In 36 minutes [they turned it down], so that tells me there was not even any consideration given to the offer, because at the end of the day Triple G always knew that he would never fight Andre Ward. He's stated publically, and in writing, that he would go up to 168 to fight anybody but Andre. We put an official offer on the table and we got a 'no' in 36 minutes.

http://www.boxingscene.com/roc-natio...int_friendly=1

Spin it how you want, if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

Your full of BS because you're not putting the 164 offer in context. You're using a reporter's paraphrase as if it's a direct quote and an ultimatum. For example, here's Sanchez explaining 164 in another interview...

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Golovkin's Coach: Andre Ward Must Go to 164 or No Fight

By Rick Reeno

Mandalay Bay, Las Vegas - Abel Sanchez, trainer of WBA/IBO middleweight champion Gennady 'GGG' Golovkin, has made it absolutely clear that he's not going to budge from his position that a potential fight with Andre Ward will only happen if Ward - the recognized champion at super middleweight - is wiling to meet them halfway at a catch-weight of 164-pounds.

Golovkin and his team received more than their fair share of heat in recent days, after placing a catch-weight demand on a potential fight with Ward. The reason for the heat, is because Golovkin was willing to fight both Carl Froch and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. at the full super middleweight limit.

But, Golovkin's side viewed Froch and Chavez Jr. as HBO Pay-Per-View opportunities, while they don't see Ward in the same respect. And Ward is by far a more dangerous fight, and likely one of the few boxers between 160 to 168 who the oddsmakers would favor to beat Golovkin.

Sanchez is a little annoyed that Ward faced Chad Dawson - who at the time was the light heavyweight king - at the super middleweight limit. In Ward's defense, it was Dawson who pushed the idea of dropping down to 168 to fight Ward.

The pecking order has changed, says Sanchez, with his boxer standing in front as the A-side of the equation. Having said that, he believes a 50-50 agreement in weight is more than fair.

"We don't need Ward. Golovkin doesn't need Ward. Dawson needed Ward. The fact that he made Dawson come down to 168 kind of irks me. When [Golovkin's promoter] Tom [Loeffler] said 50-50, and me and Tom talked about it, he meant 50-50 all the way across. That was the reason why I said 50-50 and 50-50 means 164 - right in the middle. If they want the fight, come to what Golovkin is aking for," Sanchez told BoxingScene.com.

"I don't think Ward should have a problem making 164. He talked about fighting Mayweather at 160. Why is he talking about fighting Mayweather at 160 if he's not willing to fight Gennady at 164?"

"If they thought that it was in their best interest to fight Gennady at 164, then fight him - or else they can go about their way. For us, Golovkin is the A-fighter in this situation and I don't care what anybody says. It's not like Golovkin is asking him to come down to 160, like [Golovkin] was going to do for Mayweather and go to 154. We're asking him to meet us halfway. If he doesn't want to, that's okay - we'll just go on to the next one."

And if Ward holds the line at 168?

"Then tell Ward to go somewhere else. We don't need Ward. That would be my response to Tom, if Tom came to me with that," Sanchez said.

Ward returned last month after being away from the ring since November of 2013. He stopped Paul Smith in the ninth round of a fight which took place at 172-pounds. If Ward puts together a few good wins and gets the buzz going again, Golovkin's position on the weight might have some wiggle room.

"That's something that would be a discussion amongst the team. And if we all came to the consensus that it was the right thing to do, at that point, then yes [we'd consider budging on the weight]. But right now, as it stands, he has to come to 164 if he wants to fight Gennady," Sanchez said.
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Why does Sanchez think GGG's the A-side? Maybe because he's actually been in the ring knocking out 3 or 4 guys a year in front of sold out arenas while Ward had one fight at 172 in front of less than 400k on BET against a guy who was ranked in the 30s at SMW. Sanchez plainly says at the end of the interview that if Ward puts together a few good wins then things change and the higher weight would be a consideration. Why do you ignore that quote? (rhetorical question) These are direct quotes here, not the interpretation of a boxing fan/journalist.

The truth is Ward was not in a position where he was even ready to fight let alone dictate terms. He's just now gotten his one tune up out of the way a little over a month ago. Why on earth would GGG sign a contract committing to a Ward fight all on Ward's terms 9 or 12 months in the future? Tell me why, if you were GGG, you would've signed that contract, and I'll tell you why you would've been immensely ****** to do so...

[jaded]

I like Hopkins...but sometimes he talks to much.

[hitking]

Hopkins reign at middleweight is the single largest over hyped farce of that era and I say that proudly and will engage in a to the death debate on it if need be. His boxrec makes the argument pretty clear as well.

I agree to an extent. I've always been critical of Hopkins reign as middleweight champ, and career in general. I always felt that Roy Jones kinda cast a cloud over his middleweight reign. I kinda felt like if Roy hadn't moved up, we might not even know who Bernard Hopkins is today. And the title reign itself saw him fight B level fighters like Robert Allen and Antwan Echols multiple times. And the highlights of the reign came against blown up welterweights in Tito and Oscar. To me, the Tarver fight validated his greatness.

And to me, GGG is in a similar position. There's no one currently in his division that's gonna validate his greatness. And where Hopkins had big (physical stature)welterweight stars that would come to him. GGG doesn't have that. Floyd and Manny aren't gonna go up and fight him. And you have lesser stars like Canelo and Cotto, who are jr middleweights, that aren't gonna fight him. So the only place for him go look for his big fight is up. Beating up C level middleweights may do it for his pep clubers. But for real fight fans and historians, its gonna take more for him to solidify himself as a truly great fighter.

[Bronx2245]

You said, in bold, Loeffler himself said... Then I give you a paraphrase of what Loeffler said to the LA Times about being willing to fight in 2017. To argue the point, you dont provide the LA Times article with actual quotes from Loeffer, you give me an "According to Loeffler..." then some quotes from Wards camp. The quotes dont even address whether of not Loeffler said they would be willing to fight in 2017.

I also find it strange that your article puts the time frame for the proposed GGG-Ward fight at the first half of 2016. According to the LA Times, the email offer called for a tune up fight in 2016. At the time, Ward was being considered for the Cotto-Alvarez card in November, which would have made for a tight time frame to get that tune up in.

You can claim Im spinning all you want, but one fighter wanted to fight next fight, the other said next year

First of all, I didn't say anything, that comes from an article posted right here on BoxingScene! Second, you "paraphrased" but you didn't "quote" or provide an article from the L.A. Times. So let me help you dumb-dumb:

September 16, 2015:

Loeffler said the email from an official of Ward’s promoter, Roc Nation Sports, extends a 50/50 purse-split offer to fight in 2016 after each fighter took one fight earlier in the year.

"It would’ve been a bad deal to take," Loeffler said.

Loeffler said the Roc Nation email was received hours after he’d already announced Golovkin’s fight with Lemieux at Madison Square Garden, with Roc Nation aware the World Boxing Council designated Golovkin (33-0, 30 knockouts) the mandatory challenger to a then-pending Miguel Cotto-Saul “Canelo” Alvarez title bout that will be fought Nov. 21. Roc Nation promotes Cotto.

Landing that bout, Loeffler said, would be far more lucrative than a fight against Ward, and if Golovkin could beat both Lemieux and the Cotto-Alvarez winner, Loeffler said his focus for Golovkin would be to unify the middleweight division, with Andy Lee currently possessing the World Boxing Organization belt.

"If the pay-per-view for the Lemieux fight is what we think it should be, Gennady would deserve more than 50% against Ward, considering Ward has barely fought outside of California," Loeffler said. "So it’s unreasonable to ask us to commit to that right now."

Loeffler said his emailed reply to Ward’s camp was that if Ward was still at 168 pounds in early 2017, Golovkin would be pleased to consider the bout at that point.

When Golovkin first began to fight on HBO, Loeffler said, a list of 20 potential opponents included Ward (28-0, 15 knockouts), with Golovkin trainer Abel Sanchez touting his fighter as willing to fight anyone between 154 and 168 pounds in a reference directed at Ward.

But as that interest went unrequited, Loeffler said he was approached by Ward following the Mayweather-Manny Pacquiao fight in May and was asked to stop referencing Ward. Loeffler said he and Sanchez agreed to discuss Ward only if asked about him by reporters.

"If you don’t want to fight a fighter, think it’s not your style, just say that," Ward said on the video. "The truth is, they never wanted the fight. The reality is we offered him a fight six, seven months ago, before we knew he had a pay-per-view coming up ... 50%. He turned it down in five minutes. The short and long of it is they never wanted the fight."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...915-story.html

So the moral of the story is Loeffler turned down a 50/50 offer to fight Ward because Lemieux, Cotto, and Canelo were better business moves for his fighter. Plus they added a catch-weight of 164 if it did happen, but they wouldn't apply the catch-weight for Chavez Jr. or Froch, because again, those guys are better "business" moves". It's okay to make business moves, just stop acting like GGG is not "business man" just like Canelo, Cotto, or Floyd!

[Bronx2245]

Your full of BS because you're not putting the 164 offer in context. You're using a reporter's paraphrase as if it's a direct quote and an ultimatum. For example, here's Sanchez explaining 164 in another interview...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golovkin's Coach: Andre Ward Must Go to 164 or No Fight

By Rick Reeno

Mandalay Bay, Las Vegas - Abel Sanchez, trainer of WBA/IBO middleweight champion Gennady 'GGG' Golovkin, has made it absolutely clear that he's not going to budge from his position that a potential fight with Andre Ward will only happen if Ward - the recognized champion at super middleweight - is wiling to meet them halfway at a catch-weight of 164-pounds.

Golovkin and his team received more than their fair share of heat in recent days, after placing a catch-weight demand on a potential fight with Ward. The reason for the heat, is because Golovkin was willing to fight both Carl Froch and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. at the full super middleweight limit.

But, Golovkin's side viewed Froch and Chavez Jr. as HBO Pay-Per-View opportunities, while they don't see Ward in the same respect. And Ward is by far a more dangerous fight, and likely one of the few boxers between 160 to 168 who the oddsmakers would favor to beat Golovkin.

Sanchez is a little annoyed that Ward faced Chad Dawson - who at the time was the light heavyweight king - at the super middleweight limit. In Ward's defense, it was Dawson who pushed the idea of dropping down to 168 to fight Ward.

The pecking order has changed, says Sanchez, with his boxer standing in front as the A-side of the equation. Having said that, he believes a 50-50 agreement in weight is more than fair.

"We don't need Ward. Golovkin doesn't need Ward. Dawson needed Ward. The fact that he made Dawson come down to 168 kind of irks me. When [Golovkin's promoter] Tom [Loeffler] said 50-50, and me and Tom talked about it, he meant 50-50 all the way across. That was the reason why I said 50-50 and 50-50 means 164 - right in the middle. If they want the fight, come to what Golovkin is aking for," Sanchez told BoxingScene.com.

"I don't think Ward should have a problem making 164. He talked about fighting Mayweather at 160. Why is he talking about fighting Mayweather at 160 if he's not willing to fight Gennady at 164?"

"If they thought that it was in their best interest to fight Gennady at 164, then fight him - or else they can go about their way. For us, Golovkin is the A-fighter in this situation and I don't care what anybody says. It's not like Golovkin is asking him to come down to 160, like [Golovkin] was going to do for Mayweather and go to 154. We're asking him to meet us halfway. If he doesn't want to, that's okay - we'll just go on to the next one."

And if Ward holds the line at 168?

"Then tell Ward to go somewhere else. We don't need Ward. That would be my response to Tom, if Tom came to me with that," Sanchez said.

Ward returned last month after being away from the ring since November of 2013. He stopped Paul Smith in the ninth round of a fight which took place at 172-pounds. If Ward puts together a few good wins and gets the buzz going again, Golovkin's position on the weight might have some wiggle room.

"That's something that would be a discussion amongst the team. And if we all came to the consensus that it was the right thing to do, at that point, then yes [we'd consider budging on the weight]. But right now, as it stands, he has to come to 164 if he wants to fight Gennady," Sanchez said.
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Why does Sanchez think GGG's the A-side? Maybe because he's actually been in the ring knocking out 3 or 4 guys a year in front of sold out arenas while Ward had one fight at 172 in front of less than 400k on BET against a guy who was ranked in the 30s at SMW. Sanchez plainly says at the end of the interview that if Ward puts together a few good wins then things change and the higher weight would be a consideration. Why do you ignore that quote? (rhetorical question) These are direct quotes here, not the interpretation of a boxing fan/journalist.

The truth is Ward was not in a position where he was even ready to fight let alone dictate terms. He's just now gotten his one tune up out of the way a little over a month ago. Why on earth would GGG sign a contract committing to a Ward fight all on Ward's terms 9 or 12 months in the future? Tell me why, if you were GGG, you would've signed that contract, and I'll tell you why you would've been immensely ****** to do so...

So GGG could have fought Ward @ 168 in the first half of 2016, but he turned it down for a shot @ Cotto vs. Canelo. Now he's fought Dominic Wade, and Canelo is demanding a CW. GGG is going to refuse the CW and become the undisputed champ. Canelo made big bucks fighting Cotto, and will make big bucks fighting Khan. Ward is already signed to fight Kovalev in 2016. Great moves by K2! Hindsight is 20/20!

[bug0092]

First of all, I didn't say anything, that comes from an article posted right here on BoxingScene! Second, you "paraphrased" but you didn't "quote" or provide an article from the L.A. Times. So let me help you dumb-dumb:

September 16, 2015:

Loeffler said the email from an official of Ward’s promoter, Roc Nation Sports, extends a 50/50 purse-split offer to fight in 2016 after each fighter took one fight earlier in the year.

"It would’ve been a bad deal to take," Loeffler said.

Loeffler said the Roc Nation email was received hours after he’d already announced Golovkin’s fight with Lemieux at Madison Square Garden, with Roc Nation aware the World Boxing Council designated Golovkin (33-0, 30 knockouts) the mandatory challenger to a then-pending Miguel Cotto-Saul “Canelo” Alvarez title bout that will be fought Nov. 21. Roc Nation promotes Cotto.

Landing that bout, Loeffler said, would be far more lucrative than a fight against Ward, and if Golovkin could beat both Lemieux and the Cotto-Alvarez winner, Loeffler said his focus for Golovkin would be to unify the middleweight division, with Andy Lee currently possessing the World Boxing Organization belt.

"If the pay-per-view for the Lemieux fight is what we think it should be, Gennady would deserve more than 50% against Ward, considering Ward has barely fought outside of California," Loeffler said. "So it’s unreasonable to ask us to commit to that right now."

Loeffler said his emailed reply to Ward’s camp was that if Ward was still at 168 pounds in early 2017, Golovkin would be pleased to consider the bout at that point.

When Golovkin first began to fight on HBO, Loeffler said, a list of 20 potential opponents included Ward (28-0, 15 knockouts), with Golovkin trainer Abel Sanchez touting his fighter as willing to fight anyone between 154 and 168 pounds in a reference directed at Ward.

But as that interest went unrequited, Loeffler said he was approached by Ward following the Mayweather-Manny Pacquiao fight in May and was asked to stop referencing Ward. Loeffler said he and Sanchez agreed to discuss Ward only if asked about him by reporters.

"If you don’t want to fight a fighter, think it’s not your style, just say that," Ward said on the video. "The truth is, they never wanted the fight. The reality is we offered him a fight six, seven months ago, before we knew he had a pay-per-view coming up ... 50%. He turned it down in five minutes. The short and long of it is they never wanted the fight."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...915-story.html

So the moral of the story is Loeffler turned down a 50/50 offer to fight Ward because Lemieux, Cotto, and Canelo were better business moves for his fighter. Plus they added a catch-weight of 164 if it did happen, but they wouldn't apply the catch-weight for Chavez Jr. or Froch, because again, those guys are better "business" moves". It's okay to make business moves, just stop acting like GGG is not "business man" just like Canelo, Cotto, or Floyd!

You highlight a quote by Loeffler that says they'd be open to the fight in 2017 in reply to the offer Ward sent which was to fight a 168. That means they'd reconsider the weight. But it doesn't suit your agenda to acknowledge the timeline or the context of the quotes. Your so blinded by this agenda, you can't see that the quotes you highlight to prove your point actually do the opposite.

[GGG Gloveking]

Loeffler himself said they rejected Ward's 50/50 offer, and they wanted a catch-weight @ 164 for Ward, but not Chavez Jr. or Froch. Loeffler is GGG's promoter! That's a fact!

These are your words right? Because now you come out with some "First of all, I didnt say anything..." You said it. You put it in bold. Then you say "First of all I didnt say anything"

Next, Im sorry but Im not buying an online subscription to the LA Times so I can copy and paste for all of you Ward fans that want to use Dan Ambrose or someone elses word as Loefflers. It isnt that hard to search "Loeffler LA Times". Article pops up every time.

Further, I paraphrased off memory and you argued. Now, weve gone full FN circle with you posting the article. Now, can you point me to the part of that article that contradicts what I said about Loeffler being willing to fight in 2017?

[Jubei]

Why dont you people discuss your personal argument over a private message?

Whoever stilll brings up the Ward offer is ****** anyway.

Everyone with a little bit of common sense knows that Roc Nation sent the offer just minutes after the announcement that GGG is fighting Lemieux and will be mandatory for Canelo/Cotto winner afterwards.

This thread is about Bernard trying to protect his golden goose and asking GGG to fight a guy that isnt even available for a fight because he has 2 fights signed and would only be able to fight next year anyhow.

[K-Nan]

I didn't say it was worse, I said it wasn't as big a feat as it's made out to be. I'm a third generation boxing fan, i'm not new to this sport nor in my 20's either. I was around enough to remember the hate between bernard and Roy. Hopkins fought just as many no hopers as he's bashing this guy for fighting. Talent is talent period and people need to stop hating because Golovkin makes it look easy.

One thing I will say: Hopkins priced himself out of a rematch with Roy when Roy was the p4p champ by demanding a 50-50 split

Would have been the chance to redeem the most one sided loss of his prime career.

[Bronx2245]

You highlight a quote by Loeffler that says they'd be open to the fight in 2017 in reply to the offer Ward sent which was to fight a 168. That means they'd reconsider the weight. But it doesn't suit your agenda to acknowledge the timeline or the context of the quotes. Your so blinded by this agenda, you can't see that the quotes you highlight to prove your point actually do the opposite.

The fight didn't happen. GGG made a "business man" move, now he has to live with it. It looks like he won't be fighting Canelo (unless he concedes to a catch-weight) or Cotto, and Ward is now gone to 175. **** happens!