Haymon fighters running to that HBO Money

[Scipio2009]

So, why waste millions of dollars on PBC in the first place? I'm sure showtime was willing to pay last year as well but they didn't get a thing. Al came out guns blazing and ran through a lot of money. Now he's having to adjust his approach. I don't know why it's so hard for guys like you to admit that.

And when are they going to do all these PBC shows you speak of? After the nba, hockey playoffs, and before the Olympics?

You're really grasping at straws with your reasoning.

It's chess, not checkers; if PBC cam prove that a broader audience for boxing truly does exist, the likely eventual Showtime/CBS deal for PBC (with SpikeTV, ESPN, and FS1 also picking up their content deals) will be higher than otherwise expected (had the broader audience not been proven).

FOX/FS1 paid $700m ($100m over 7 years) to bring most of the UFC content package to their airwaves (with the UFC keeping their 12 biggest fight cards for themselves on PPV).

A PBC package could be worth $1b, over a 7-year period (~$150m per year), to CBS/Showtime; CBS Sports Network being a channel that folks would be more likely to pick up (T2T, the various support programming for coming fights, prefight/postfight content for the actual fights, re-airs of fights that have already aired on CBS broadcast, etc), and more known talent (with fights aired on CBS) to feed into the Showtime-to-SHOPPV pipeline that's still there (PPV, though rarer, still maxes out the money of the most massive possible matchups), etc.

Showtime is definitely growing their investment in boxing, but if Haymon could help get the interest to the point that CBS wants to plug boxing into their mainline sports, why wouldn't you try (with Showtime at the table through the whole thing, still with their pick up fight cards, it's not like the Showtime relationship is even slightly being put at risk)?

[Scipio2009]

this wasn't the case last year when he tried to take over boxing. remember quillin-korobov among others.

people always say "among others",yet never actually ever mention any other actual instances to back up the point.

Beyond that, follow the path that Quillin took instead (value time with family however you want, I'll ignore that here; people forget that Quillin-Korobov didn't even have a TV partner locked in); $500k to fight Andy Lee on NBC in primetime, ~$1m to fight Zerafa on NBC (sponsor money for a nationally televised fight in primetime likely wasn't bad either), $1.5m to fight Daniel Jacobs on Showtime.

not all that bad a tradeoff, if you ask me.

[killakali]

funny how no one from Rocky Martinez's camp or Fortuna's camp has said anything over "fighting over Loma's HBO date", lol.

Top Rank was talking about HBO setting aside $1.4m for Loma's next fight (with Loma's camp quietly making sure that Loma gets $850k).

Roman Martinez made $300k for fighting Salido in his last fight; unless there's some undue premium placed on the Puerto Rican Day date by PRBB, Martinez and his camp aren't likely to take Top Rank's short money for the fight either.

hilarious how you had to double count a fight to even get to your 5, lol

roman will get 500k, much more than he got for saildo 1 or 2 which haymon got him the 2nd purse lol.

roman's promoter and sampson fortuna have confirmed this

[Eff Pandas]

Spence is a nice young fighter but does not fit as a NBC fight and is only headlining because PBC is downsizing.

Don't see this at all. Spence has been hyped for a couple years now. Everyone thinks he's a future this or a future that. Well its now the future. This is his first step on that path & they are putting it on a bigger platform as anyone with two brain cells to rub together would do. Everything isn't about money.

Of course it's a smart move for PBC to adjust, start slashing costs like broadcast team ect. Nobody is arguing that. But PBC had a plan sure much of which they kept hidden but even the things they told us like the amount of cards they would put out, how often these fights would be on these network (monthly series) they have abandoned. You don't do things this drastic after 1 year unless you are in trouble. 8 months without a ESPN card. Virtually no PBC shows in the months of Feb and March. Almost all Haymon fighters are going back to premium cable (Showtime or HBO) instead of fighting under the PBC brand.

Who's saying they aren't in trouble? You don't get a whole lot of time in the entertainment business to appeal to people. You can't put a bs show on TV & hope fans tune in til the 2nd season when the story gets really good. Granted this isn't exactly that same scenario, but it kinda is cuz if things don't work via advertisers & incoming money it won't make sense to keep buying airtime.

The premium cable stuff was already out there doe. Espinoza said a year ago that Haymon was bringing his fighters back to Showtime. This seems like it was part of the plan out of the gate.

“I expect to see all of those fighters back on Showtime very, very soon. We were part of the decision concerning which fights would go to NBC and we were consulted and we agreed with taking those individual fights to NBC. What we’re looking to do here is not about one or two good fights”

Espinoza in Jan. 2015
http://******.craveonline.com/news/3...-for-the-sport

What is the groundbreaking moves PBC is going to do to change this around?

**** thats there job not mine. If I knew I'd be signing fighters & looking for investors myself. I do think boxing can become more popular than its been thats for sure. I think that Haymon just needs to garner more influence via getting more of the bigger names with him as he's slowly doing over the last 18 months or so.

I do contend, as Lampley stated & I've been quoting a few times on this forum recently, that maybe boxing fans have basically been spoiled by premium cable & PPV boxing & that it feels like a inferior product due to all the ads nowadays & not being there fully. Maybe the Free TV model isn't even a model that can be successful in boxing today on the scale that PBC is attempting. If thats the case they will need to adapt by making things smaller or adding premium cable & PPV to the model I guess. And I think its at least arguable they might have known that all along cuz Showtime was in the plan from the jump. We will just have to see with all of that. I still feel like those waiting for PBC's demise will be waiting years for that to happen.

[bigdunny1]

13 PBC shows in the cue are confirmed before the end of June isn't a terrible pace (not counting any shows that were delivered to Showtime); with there still be time to go, there could be another 2-4 shows added to the PBC schedule before the end of June.

Extrapolate that out for the full year and you're looking at 40 PBC shows for the year (with the schedule likely ramping up over the back half); the main change being the terrestrial primetime broadcasts moving from NBC in Yr 1 to FOX/NBC in Yr 2.

sad to see so many "boxing fans" so desperate to see boxing fail that they've created false images in their mind.

13 shows by end of June? hahaha as of today including this weekend PBC has exactly 5 shows announced from now till the end of June. The rest are paid for and produced by Showtime under their Showtime Boxing NOT PBC. Those don't count lol And it's Mid April you need what at least 6-8 weeks to promote a fight. So unless PBC announces 8 shows nobody has heard of by the end of next week it's impossible for them to air that many shows.

[MASTERBX]

TBE made more money per-bout with his Showtime contract than HBO's annual boxing budget. HBO will be out of the boxing business within 5 years.

[Boxfan83]

this wasn't the case last year when he tried to take over boxing. remember quillin-korobov among others.

Yeah well I am sure the lawsuits of him violating the Ali act have him steering in the right direction...

[al-Xander]

The mistake was trying to pattern it after the UFC model, which is completely different. UFC is like WWE/F which got a steady stream of loyal fanbase, while boxing survives only with casuals. I'm likening UFC with WWE/F because their customers will always be there whether it's fake or not. They come and go in boxing.

[bigdunny1]

Don't see this at all. Spence has been hyped for a couple years now. Everyone thinks he's a future this or a future that. Well its now the future. This is his first step on that path & they are putting it on a bigger platform as anyone with two brain cells to rub together would do. Everything isn't about money.



Who's saying they aren't in trouble? You don't get a whole lot of time in the entertainment business to appeal to people. You can't put a bs show on TV & hope fans tune in til the 2nd season when the story gets really good. Granted this isn't exactly that same scenario, but it kinda is cuz if things don't work via advertisers & incoming money it won't make sense to keep buying airtime.

The premium cable stuff was already out there doe. Espinoza said a year ago that Haymon was bringing his fighters back to Showtime. This seems like it was part of the plan out of the gate.

Espinoza in Jan. 2015
http://******.craveonline.com/news/3...-for-the-sport



**** thats there job not mine. If I knew I'd be signing fighters & looking for investors myself. I do think boxing can become more popular than its been thats for sure. I think that Haymon just needs to garner more influence via getting more of the bigger names with him as he's slowly doing over the last 18 months or so.

I do contend, as Lampley stated & I've been quoting a few times on this forum recently, that maybe boxing fans have basically been spoiled by premium cable & PPV boxing & that it feels like a inferior product due to all the ads nowadays & not being there fully. Maybe the Free TV model isn't even a model that can be successful in boxing today on the scale that PBC is attempting. If thats the case they will need to adapt by making things smaller or adding premium cable & PPV to the model I guess. And I think its at least arguable they might have known that all along cuz Showtime was in the plan from the jump. We will just have to see with all of that. I still feel like those waiting for PBC's demise will be waiting years for that to happen.

But everything was about money for PBC...last year. So what changed? And it's not just Spence look at most of the PBC cards ACROSS the board and the names and purses are done. At least you are more honest then the other PBC supporters and admit they are losing money and the signs are obvious they are struggling hell they just cut the announcers they had from last year and there is significant drop off in star power in the actual card. That's my point Spence can't draw crowds and while talented he is on this card because he's a cheaper option then the fights they put on last year that lost millions for PBC. It's a budget cut to try and limit the bleeding. Just like pushing back your ESPN card from Jan to March, then March to April, to "maybe" in June who knows that might get pushed back as well. You don't make moves like that if your business is doing is well. The last Bounce card in what Jan advertised their next fight date in like March. That card never happened and I haven't heard of any Bounce cards scheduled and it's mid April. Spike went over 4 months without a fight, same with NBC. These are huge gaps between fights on these networks and the money is already paid for the dates so it's not due to the networks. It's because each card loses money so they are putting on cheaper and less frequent cards with cheaper announcers.

But if people in year 1 criticized the product how does putting out a cheaper product change those opinions? To me this is just a hail mary attempt to try and squeeze a few more months and limit the amounts they are losing but does NOTHING to improve the brand of PBC which is pretty nonexistent among casual fans and is already polarizing and criticized among hardcore boxing fans. You said Haymon needs bigger names on PBC to turn this around yet he's doing the opposite. Less fights, lower caliber names, lesser announcers and sending your better fighters to fight on Showtime/HBO some how helps the PBC brand?

[Scipio2009]

13 shows by end of June? hahaha as of today including this weekend PBC has exactly 5 shows announced from now till the end of June. The rest are paid for and produced by Showtime under their Showtime Boxing NOT PBC. Those don't count lol And it's Mid April you need what at least 6-8 weeks to promote a fight. So unless PBC announces 8 shows nobody has heard of by the end of next week it's impossible for them to air that many shows.

PBC on FS1 (Toe-to-Toe Tuesdays):
-Flores vs Briones
-James vs Molina
-Herring vs Flores
-Santiago vs Ruiz
-Lipinets vs Ghvamichava
-Redkach vs Cruz [April 19th]
-Gassiev vs Shimmell [May 17th]

PBC on FOX
-Garcia vs Guerrero
-Ortiz vs Berto [April 30th]

PBC on BounceTV
-Lubin vs De Jesus Macias

PBC on SpikeTV(Friday Night Lights Out)
-Broner vs Theophane
-Dirrell Brothers [April 29th]

PBC on NBC
-Spence Jr vs Algieri [April 16th]

PBC on ESPN (Saturday Night Fights)
-Beterbiev vs TBA [June 4th]

14 shows already written on the PBC schedule for the year, with others to come (Stevenson is currently in the midst of being in/prepping for fight camp, and Daniel Jacobs, Danny Garcia, the VasquezJr-Barrionuevo WBC fight, Lamont Peterson, and a host of other fighters are looking for summertime fights)

At even this current pace, sans any ramp up (the ramp up will happen), you're still looking at 40+ PBC shows in Yr 2 (ignoring any fight cards that get on Showtime).

As the schedule continues to roll out, keep trying to sell your bill of goods to folks, lol.