PBC/Haymon Elite Boxers Influence at the end of 2015

[killakali]

Yea I gotta agree the ratings bar is lower then people, myself included, realize with this.



Okay so you don't think an elite boxing league would generate the money needed to be profitable? Lets say an elite boxing league by definition would be a list similar to the one above where Haymon currently has 24% of elite boxers signed to deals with him & 29% of them operating under the PBC banner & with a favored Haymon promoter except maybe this in theory elite boxing league has 50%-60% of elite boxers signed to deals with them &/or 65%-75% of them are fighting under the that groups banner.

You don't think a league of fighters of that caliber all with the ability to fight each other at any time would be a profitable venture? And lets not even get into a conversation about if that is or isn't attainable, cuz its not relevant to the question at hand. If you'd have told me 3 years that one guy would have 24% of the elite boxers in the sport signed to him I'd have called you nuts.

Cuz this is the end goal not the stuff you are focused on now that you & others see as a huge leak in the plan. The plan was gonna involve this ship taking water for awhile whatever happened. And I think nearly everyone is in agreement Haymon is spending some money now. How much he's spending vs taking in is debatable, but I'll leave that question for another day cuz I believe we don't have enough info to make an informed call. I doubt its as bad as people think based on what we know & the numbers we've seen with little clarification with the fund war chest report. I do suspect it will probably be more defined within the next two quarterly updates & then we can talk more seriously about the burn rate going on.

I just think with shows having a Thurman and Guerrero getting 4.5 in purses can't be sustained. You also can't compare the ratings from MLS. MLS has built in sponsors and boxing will always have some issues getting sponsors due to its violent nature.

I think networks may want to buy boxing in the future but with purses at less than $1million for the whole show.

don't forget they don't make any extra revenue from the arenas to help turn a profit because most of the tickets are give aways. There is a little foreign tv money but thats about it

[killakali]

first of all, that's not true. a network reality show does not cost 10% of what a fight would cost. second of all, a large percentage of the audience would record that reality show and skip the commercials.

the only programming that advertisers believe is DVR proof is live sports. so there is a huge premium paid for live sports. a million viewers for a sporting event is way way way more attractive to an advertiser than a million viewers for a reality show.

10% of what a major nbc fight card? or less for sure. these guys on reality shows work for cheap. not getting that robert guerrero 3mil to face keith thurman chedda

[al-Xander]

He need to have his fighters at 147 & 154 fight each other in 2016

Don't worry, there's an end to everything. Haymon can't possibly have an unlimited number of cab drivers for his fighters. Look at Thurman. He ran out of Bundus and Collazos, finally. Don't know about Garcia, but it looks like he's taking the same route as Thurman. Karass is next.

[Eff Pandas]

I just think with shows having a Thurman and Guerrero getting 4.5 in purses can't be sustained. You also can't compare the ratings from MLS. MLS has built in sponsors and boxing will always have some issues getting sponsors due to its violent nature.

I think networks may want to buy boxing in the future but with purses at less than $1million for the whole show.

don't forget they don't make any extra revenue from the arenas to help turn a profit because most of the tickets are give aways. There is a little foreign tv money but thats about it

Idk what you are really saying here based on the question I asked that I'm legit curious to your answer to. So you are saying an elite boxing league that held up to 60% of elite boxers under contract &/or with up to 75% able to fight under their banner would not be a successful venture that a network(s) would wanna make a deal with?

Most of the stuff you are mentioning seem negative so my assumption would be you basically don't think boxing is viable on national TV at the world class level unless purses are drastically reduced from their current fair market value. Your take seems to be the fans won't watch, the networks won't make enough money &/or the fighters would need to get paid less. In your opinion elite boxing is basically a losing proposition unless its subsidized by HBO, Showtime or in Haymon's case this venture capitalist war chest he's gotten assess to? Am I putting words in your mouth or is that basically the long & short of it?

[killakali]

Idk what you are really saying here based on the question I asked that I'm legit curious to your answer to. So you are saying an elite boxing league that held up to 60% of elite boxers under contract &/or with up to 75% able to fight under their banner would not be a successful venture that a network(s) would wanna make a deal with?

Most of the stuff you are mentioning seem negative so my assumption would be you basically don't think boxing is viable on national TV at the world class level unless purses are drastically reduced from their current fair market value. Your take seems to be the fans won't watch, the networks won't make enough money &/or the fighters would need to get paid less. In your opinion elite boxing is basically a losing proposition unless its subsidized by HBO, Showtime or in Haymon's case this venture capitalist war chest he's gotten assess to? Am I putting words in your mouth or is that basically the long & short of it?

That is somewhat what I am saying.

I am saying that HBO, Showtime subscriber money pays up to $2mil a fight but after that even those fights usually have to go to ppv. I think that we could get some title fights like a Martinez Salido level fight. Guys getting a $300k purse each and a co feature of something like Pedraza Cherry where for another 300k in total purses. I think something like that if this PBC does decent ratings could be feasible matchups. Those are just examples. I am not saying that those fighters should be on there. I am talking salary wise.

The fact that PBC doesn't even try to make money on the gate is head scratching. On one hand I understand that they have made several undesirable match ups that don't sell and they don't want to have empty seats on network tv but what happens is it saturates the market with free tickets and fights that are desirable like Jacobs Quillin are in a 60% empty arena with the 40% that is full having many free tickets. At least for Santa Cruz Mares they were able to get it almost 70% full but with so many free tickets they are ignoring a potential revenue source.

I think big fights like the 1.5mil each Jacbos and Quillin got will never be sustainable on PBC (yes I know it was on Showtime). Guys like Thurman, Danny Garcia etc are too expensive for that

[Eff Pandas]

I think big fights like the 1.5mil each Jacbos and Quillin got will never be sustainable on PBC (yes I know it was on Showtime). Guys like Thurman, Danny Garcia etc are too expensive for that

WOW @ you thinking national TV fight can't cover $3M boxing purses for top guys to fight each other on a regular basis. To me that suggests boxing is in a horrible state if you are right.

I believe this assumption that boxing isn't valuable unless its on Showtime or HBO to be a horrible market manipulation in the late 80's/early 90's that happened over many years & it'll take a couple years to reverse that mindset. I think soccer in the US is a more niche sport then boxing & thats on national TV. If thats on national TV I don't understand why boxing can only be subsidized by premium networks.

[killakali]

WOW @ you thinking national TV fight can't cover $3M boxing purses for top guys to fight each other on a regular basis. To me that suggests boxing is in a horrible state if you are right.

I believe this assumption that boxing isn't valuable unless its on Showtime or HBO to be a horrible market manipulation in the late 80's/early 90's that happened over many years & it'll take a couple years to reverse that mindset. I think soccer in the US is a more niche sport then boxing & thats on national TV. If thats on national TV I don't understand why boxing can only be subsidized by premium networks.

actually soccer is growing very fast in the usa. while both are a niche sport, networks have invested in soccer programming and not a penny in boxing. thats why waddle and reed was needed for boxing and not soccer. that proves that boxing is more of niche sport than soccer

[about.thousands]

actually soccer is growing very fast in the usa. while both are a niche sport, networks have invested in soccer programming and not a penny in boxing. thats why waddle and reed was needed for boxing and not soccer. that proves that boxing is more of niche sport than soccer

I don't think Soccer is a niche sport but the MLS is a niche league. The networks had shown interest in boxing. Golden Boy was on FS1 and Main Events had an NBC deal. I remember Duva saying something like she had a $150,000 licensing fee from NBC to put on fights. They weren't investing much money because boxing is so fractured. Eff Pandas calculation that Haymon has 28% of elite boxers makes it more appealing to networks because his roster is big enough to put on significant fights as well as card fillers. Up until this point no manager, adviser, or promotional company could bring that big of a roster to a network. With other sports the networks are guaranteed the best will face the best every year. There are to many politics in boxing to make that happen on a consistent basis. Even with Haymon's roster if I were a network I would tell him to prove it before I bought it.

[killakali]

I don't think Soccer is a niche sport but the MLS is a niche league. The networks had shown interest in boxing. Golden Boy was on FS1 and Main Events had an NBC deal. I remember Duva saying something like she had a $150,000 licensing fee from NBC to put on fights. They weren't investing much money because boxing is so fractured. Eff Pandas calculation that Haymon has 28% of elite boxers makes it more appealing to networks because his roster is big enough to put on significant fights as well as card fillers. Up until this point no manager, adviser, or promotional company could bring that big of a roster to a network. With other sports the networks are guaranteed the best will face the best every year. There are to many politics in boxing to make that happen on a consistent basis. Even with Haymon's roster if I were a network I would tell him to prove it before I bought it.

i dont get why u guys keep saying one promoter/manager has to have a big roster for a network to want boxing. they were in boxing before with different promoters, managers etc with no issues. same with hbo and showtime before they were in bed with haymon. if nbc, cbs etc wants to be in boxing they don't have to give an exclusive output deal. let the promoters bring fights to the table and say yay or nay to them. this talk that it has to be a league is nonsense. HBO works with trop rank, k2, gbp, shaw, main events etc

[Eff Pandas]

i dont get why u guys keep saying one promoter/manager has to have a big roster for a network to want boxing. they were in boxing before with different promoters, managers etc with no issues. same with hbo and showtime before they were in bed with haymon. if nbc, cbs etc wants to be in boxing they don't have to give an exclusive output deal. let the promoters bring fights to the table and say yay or nay to them. this talk that it has to be a league is nonsense. HBO works with trop rank, k2, gbp, shaw, main events etc

Boxing is never gonna have the consistency it needs to be taken as a "serious" sport again by just doing big fights a couple times a year. Just about every sport except boxing has some sort of elite athlete league. There is more value in everyone being in the same pool than in 5 or 6 major pools (HBO, TR, K2, ME, etc...) like you mention.

This isn't that complicated a concept imo. If the NFL was broken up into 5 or 6 major pools of talent good luck trying to get the super bowl popping off every year. I mean think about how major sports would look if there was a similar setup as boxing where its every man for himself. You can't have a fractured sport like boxing is & get maximum influence for the sport of boxing. No one is looking out for boxing. TR is looking out for TR. K2 is looking out for K2. Etc & so on. Boxing needs an elite league of boxers where boxing is being looked out for like the NFL looks out for football, the NBA looks out for basketball & the UFC looks out for MMA.