Comments Thread For: Froch: Andre Ward is P4P 1, Golovkin Not in My Top Ten

[hitking]

You're way off, as usual. Broner didn't move up cause of critics, he moved up since he was ballooning huge and had trouble making LW, and cause all the money fights were up north. That's why fighters move up, and neither is the case with Ggg.

Broner gets fat between fights. He's not the first, nor will he be the last fighter that doesn't stay on shape betqeen fights.

And he didn't move up because he couldn't make weight. He fought at lightweight twice, spanning four months, and weighed in under the limit each time. So assuming he didn't hit puberty between the Rees and Malignaggi fights, I doubt he was killing himself to make weight.

As for the move up. He recieved huge amounts of criticism for the Rees fight fpr the so called level of opposition. And Rees was a top 10 lightweight, and very much on par or better than most of GGG's opponents. Broner's critics were not gonna stand for him "beating up on smaller guys" in the lightweight division.

And around that time, Malignaggi snatched a paper trinket at welterweight and became a perfect mark. He and AB's personalitiew would sell an event. Paulie has no power and wasn't a threat. And moving up will always sell. Broner never was a natural welterweight. And it was obvious against Paulie he had no business in that division. Then of course Maidana happen.

I'm not off on ****. Broner could have very easily stayed in a weak division, like GGG. And used the "unification" excuse to prolong a cushy, overrated existance. The difference is AB was a villian instead of beloved like GGG. His critics would have blasted him for a string of fights against ****ty beltholders, where GGG is applauded. Don't get it twisted, I'm not f.uck'd up with GGG. If he's got people that are ****** enough to pay to see him fight C level competition simply because they have a belt, so be it. But let's not pretend he's doing something historic or great. Just like there would have been nothing historic or great about AB unifying the lightweight belts against Vazquez, Abril, and Burns.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

"don't expect me to rank him highly when he's too good for his own division."


do you at least have golovkin at the top of your middleweight rankings?



froch retired, dirk. you can give this stuff a rest. i really don't think he's coming back. if he does, i expect you to demand he fights at 175

I will rank him highly as a middleweight which is like being the thinnest Yank in the United States....you're still a fat **** everywhere else.

But I won't rank him highly pound-for-pound. A convincing win over Canelo would probably see him crack my top 10.

[Ham Porter]

First you said 6 years, and now it's 4 years lol.

Let's see. In the last 4 years he beat the #4 guy in his division, then the #2 guy in his division (because he was already #1), and then he beat the #1 guy at LHW. He then fought a top 10 SMW (Rodriguez was #7), then had a 20 month layoff, and recently had a tuneup. Since that 20 month layoff, he's maintained his position on the pound for pound list, is still undeniably the best SMW in the sport, and his only clear threat is a man who has 3 belts at LHW. Gonna say that's been a pretty legit 4 years, minus the inactivity of course

Nobody who hasn't fought at the weight in two years is undeniably the best. You prove that by actually getting into the ring & fighting, not living off of a few wins from several years ago.

[theface07]

SPot on.

Hey, I actually like GGG as a fighter, I think he has a=some skill and has shown great power. But he is 34 years old and has fought no one, he deserves to be questioned for this fact. He's been a pro for a decade, you're telling me he hasn't been able to fight anyone of note for 10 years?

He's simply not a proven top 10 P4P fighter no matter what HBO says. Maybe he'll start fighting some non tomato cans, but Lemiuex is another nobody that any good fighter should beat easily.

You sir, are a moron. For one, Golovkin has repeatedly tried to get the top ranked middleweights in the ring and they have refused and resisted consistently. Is this his fault? No. He has made every effort to clean out the middleweight division. I don't know what the Golovkin critics expect from him. Will he deserve credit when he obliterates Lemieux and goes on to fight and beat the winner of Cotto/Canelo if they have the stones to face him?
Don't give me that crap, Canelo is undersized. He is the same size as Golovkin but likes to fight at catch weights to give himself a size advantage. If he's not a true middleweight (which he is) he shouldn't be challenging Cotto for a Middleweight title.
You can call Golovkin's opponents bums all you want but the facts are, he is currently the best middleweight out there and the entire division is shaking in their boots every time he mentions any names.

[doom_specialist]

Nobody who hasn't fought at the weight in two years is undeniably the best. You prove that by actually getting into the ring & fighting, not living off of a few wins from several years ago.

Tell that to Jack Dempsey, or Floyd Mayweather lol

And he's not undeniably the best SMW in the world, when the current #1 is a guy he dominated? Uh... OK

[aboutfkntime]

I can agree with that to an extent. Ward is a supreme talent but hed have to beat Kova or Stevenson for me to rate him above Klitchsko. Where Klitchsko edges Ward is his activity and his opposition. If you look at each's respectable division Vlad has defeated more top rated contenders than Ward has and hes done so more consistently. And if Ward went up to LHW and unseated one of the Champs, he would have defeated the same level of comp over 2 divisions, one more than Vlad. Ward is a great fighter nonetheless, but what good are skills if hes not facing the best.

I couldn't put them in the same sentence.

We really do need to define the P4P criteria.

If Ward were NATURALLY 6'6" 250lb..... who would win ?

I think Ward is a much better fighter than Klitschko.

Ward is proven, so reinventing the wheel is pointless.

Ward needs to make 168 and fight a top guy, just like Mayweather did to regain his standing at welter. Or 175 and fight a top guy sure.

But Golovkin, who is unproven, does not need to fight Ward..... and yet Ward, who is proven, needs to fight Kovalev? Makes no sense to me.

[aboutfkntime]

Floyd retired so I don't include Floyd in my conversations as an active fighter any more and yes he dominated his division or better yet divisions. My criteria for p4p is flat out what you are doing in your division, what your performance is against your opponents. I named Klitschko and to hear folks here talk about Klitschko he ain't shh, same way they used to do bernard hopkins during his big run. Hell I was a Roy Jones Jr super fan so I know first hand what the talk around that era was. P4P to me is when you are so good mofo's need to start looking for fighters in other divisions to try and present a challenge. Let's just look at the entire scope of boxing and honestly ask yourself are there actually ten active fighters than this guy...like seriously ten. Even if you put him in the tenth spot he belongs on that list. It's not about KO's and it's not about your win streak it's about flat out performance. Yeah we can argue 160 isn't the best division because 140 and 147 are so stacked but we can make the same argument for 168, 175, and hell cruiser weight is flat out dead. Is he an all time great? No, is he a top ten p4p fighter right now..hell yeah he is. Is he a top 5? One could argue that, is he #1 p4p no that goes to Klitschko til he loses or retires.

We need to define P4P criteria, and then stick with it, because everyone is comparing apples with oranges.

I agree with you about divisional supremacy, but divisional supremacy does not tell the whole story.

Ward is hands down a better fighter than Klitschko, no question.

[Bardock]

I will rank him highly as a middleweight which is like being the thinnest Yank in the United States....you're still a fat **** everywhere else.

But I won't rank him highly pound-for-pound. A convincing win over Canelo would probably see him crack my top 10.

[aboutfkntime]

why do you hold him to a standard that you don't hold the rest of the middleweights? because they won't fight him because he's that good? i don't see you asking them to move up from the "kiddie table." i don't understand what goes into deciding that golovkin has to fight at SMW in order to "graduate from the kiddie table." he's a middleweight. it' not his fault he's good enough that his most reasonable opponents [the two highest paid fighters in his range are cotto and canelo, who fight at MW,] won't fight him.

he's been at MW for a long time, and isn't outgrowing the division.

I agree with you..... but, you reap what you sow.

Middleweight is pretty dead and Golovkin currently has no notable wins.

Legacy-wise, only notable wins count.

[Scary]

How is it so hard to understand for GGG fans (I'm one myself) that it does not matter, that he KO'd 1000 unknown foes and 3-4 ok names. He needs some great names to make him viable for a crack at the top 10. Maybe he deserves to be there, but he needs to prove it first, for us sceptiks.

We're skeptic because of fans like you who deny that this is a reasonable argument.