Whose 49-0 is truly greater? Mayweather or Marciano?

[IronDanHamza]

In an abstract conversation of course Duran is better, but in reality Tyson fury would kill him. It's not that hard to grasp. You seem incapable of even understanding that, never mind admitting that. Has nothing to do with being smarter. I'm on the side of logic, you're in the abstract.

Well yeah of course Fury kills him he's about 150 lbs heavier than him That doesn't make him better or greater.

It's not an abstract thinking to say Duran is a greater fighter than Tyson Fury man Jesus Christ.

Duran is a better fighter, he's a greater fighter, he's ranked higher on any list, he's more skilled, he has a better resume, he is more accomplished. Losing in a fight to a man 150 lbs heavier than you doesn't change any of that.

Just tell me who is greater in your eyes Duran or Fury? You keep avoiding the question and I actually want to know

[Joe Beamish]

Pretty much a tie. Slight edge to Marciano.

I've often thought that Mayweather and Marciano had similar careers in some respects. They both beat tremendous fighters, but they never faced top guys who were in their prime at the time of the fight.

Sure, we could fault Marciano for having a very short career as champion. We could fault Mayweather for retiring years ago, a move that conveniently kept him from facing a couple serious guys (Margarito and Williams) who might have enjoyed a rare advantage with their superior reach and fierce level of activity in the ring.

But you can't argue with the excellent competitors they fought and defeated. They just happened to be past their best every freaking time.

Slight edge to Marciano for me, because of how great Charles, Wolcott and Moore all still were at the time of the fights, even though they were older. They were all much closer to their peak than say, De La Hoya was for example....

[buge]

Well yeah of course Fury kills him he's about 150 lbs heavier than him That doesn't make him better or greater.

that absolutely does make him a better fighter

maybe not "greater" since that's more in the p4p realm, but Fury is the better man if the two got in the ring

[IronDanHamza]

that absolutely does make him a better fighter

maybe not "greater" since that's more in the p4p realm, but Fury is the better man if the two got in the ring

So you'd say Seth Mitchell is a better fighter than Sugar Ray Leonard?

You don't see the flaw in the logic?

[BrometheusBob.]

Well that just confuses it even further and makes it even more flawed than I originally thought.

How do their ATG lists work then? I actually want to try to understand how Mayweather could possibly be ranked #1 Welterweight of all time.

Well for one thing, people can only be ranked in one division on BoxRec. Sugar Ray Robinson for instance is rated at MW. If he had been rated at WW, he'd be #1 in that division.

The career ratings emphasize your ranking in your division each year you've fought. Your career score comes from the sum of three things -
1) A score based on your ranking for each year you were an active fighter. "Ranking" being how your active boxrec score at the end of the year compares to those of the other fighters in your division.
2) A score based on the highest ranked opponent which you defeated each year, similar to the above.
3) A fraction of your career top rating (aka highest 'active' rating achieved).

In other words, having a long career where you are at the top of your division for much of that time will result in having a very high career rating ala Floyd Mayweather. Since your annual ratings are summed together, the longevity of your time at the top is a substantial factor. Also, the number of points you get for each ranking means that the difference between being #1 and #2 in your division in a given year is measurably different (200 for #1, 100 for #2, 50 for #3 etc. Less points if your division is very weak, as defined as not having at least 10 fighters with an active score of 100+). Now even though Mayweather's career top rating is just over 2000, which isn't nearly as high as the career top ratings of some other ATGs, this makes up only one part of the total career rating as described above.

2015 had a substantial impact on Floyd's career score. For one, his career top rating jumped 294 points, for beating Pacquiao by comfortable UD. Two, he beat the 2nd highest rated fighter available at 147 at the time. And three, he clocked in another year where he finished as the #1 fighter of the division (as of now). That alone added 341.16 points to his career score (294*.14 + 100 + 200). Right now, that'd make the difference between being #7 and #1 WW of all time on BoxRec, and would make the difference between being #29 and #7 P4P ATG.

EDIT:
The points based on ranking are 200/rank, so #3 would actually be 66.66, not 50. My mistake amigos.

[El-blanco]

Well yeah of course Fury kills him he's about 150 lbs heavier than him That doesn't make him better or greater.

It's not an abstract thinking to say Duran is a greater fighter than Tyson Fury man Jesus Christ.

Duran is a better fighter, he's a greater fighter, he's ranked higher on any list, he's more skilled, he has a better resume, he is more accomplished. Losing in a fight to a man 150 lbs heavier than you doesn't change any of that.

Just tell me who is greater in your eyes Duran or Fury? You keep avoiding the question and I actually want to know

repeat that ******ity I bolded to anyone else out loud and see what their response is. If someone destroys you and all your contemporaries that makes them better. That's reality, that's the evidence. It applies in all other sports. Nothing is more clear cut. For some bizarre reason you think an abstract conversation is better than the reality I suggested above.

that absolutely does make him a better fighter

maybe not "greater" since that's more in the p4p realm, but Fury is the better man if the two got in the ring

I'm beginning to think he's ******ed.

[IronDanHamza]

repeat that ******ity I bolded to anyone else out loud and see what their response is. If someone destroys you and all your contemporaries that makes them better. That's reality, that's the evidence. It applies in all other sports. Nothing is more clear cut. For some bizarre reason you think an abstract conversation is better than the reality I suggested above.

I'm beginning to think he's ******ed.

Oh yeah mate only every single boxing writer in the history of the sports existence would agree with me

Again it's not an abstract thinking at all.

Are you new to this sport? Serious question. Because saying Heavyweights >>>>> everyone is not a common view you understand that right?

The irony of you saying MY line of thinking is ******ed Boggles the mind.

So who's ranked higher in your eyes Duran or Fury? Infact forget Fury who's ranked higher Duran or Seth Mitchell? Just answer the question. I want to know the answer so I can get a clear idea of your thought process.

[IronDanHamza]

Well for one thing, people can only be ranked in one division on BoxRec. Sugar Ray Robinson for instance is rated at MW. If he had been rated at WW, he'd be #1 in that division.

The career ratings emphasize your ranking in your division each year you've fought. Your career score comes from the sum of three things -
1) A score based on your ranking for each year you were an active fighter. "Ranking" being how your active boxrec score at the end of the year compares to those of the other fighters in your division.
2) A score based on the highest ranked opponent which you defeated each year, similar to the above.
3) A fraction of your career top rating (aka highest 'active' rating achieved).

In other words, having a long career where you are at the top of your division for much of that time will result in having a very high career rating ala Floyd Mayweather. Since your annual ratings are summed together, the longevity of your time at the top is a substantial factor. Also, the number of points you get for each ranking means that the difference between being #1 and #2 in your division in a given year is measurably different (200 for #1, 100 for #2, 50 for #3 etc. Less points if your division is very weak, as defined as not having at least 10 fighters with an active score of 100+). Now even though Mayweather's career top rating is just over 2000, which isn't nearly as high as the career top ratings of some other ATGs, this makes up only one part of the total career rating as described above.

2015 had a substantial impact on Floyd's career score. For one, his career top rating jumped 294 points, for beating Pacquiao by comfortable UD. Two, he beat the 2nd highest rated fighter available at 147 at the time. And three, he clocked in another year where he finished as the #1 fighter of the division (as of now). That alone added 341.16 points to his career score (294*.14 + 100 + 200). Right now, that'd make the difference between being #7 and #1 WW of all time on BoxRec, and would make the difference between being #29 and #7 P4P ATG.

I see.

Pretty flawed right?

[Left Hook Tua]

floyd.

not a big fan of rocky.

i blame all my dad's joe louis vhs tapes.

[BrometheusBob.]

I see.

Pretty flawed right?

Why you hatin.

Archie Moore the greatest that ever lived.