Mayweather's IV injection (Master thread)

[travestyny]

They use statistics and history to gauge how they are doing. With taking that into account, they estimate that even with advancements, they still only catch a small percentage. How many have USADA caught in boxing? Not many.

Who is "they," and where is the research that says many boxers who are tested by anti-doping agencies that follow the WADA code are juicing and slipping through the cracks. Again, proof. I need it. PLEASE POST IT. REALLY. I'd love to know how they know many are slipping through the cracks...if they are slipping through the cracks.

USADA was helping Floyd mask. It goes against what they even preach!

You do realize that to prove masking, you have to prove he had PEDs in his system, right? Proof?

They do not even have to catch them with PEDs. If they find out that they were masking, its still a violation even without knowing what the PED was that they were trying to mask. We know that Fluid was using an IV which masks. With weight being stable, there was no reason for an IV. So if not then why get an IV?

Say what? You are giving misleading information. It's not that they "find someone is masking" because they have no proof of masking without PED use being proven. What they can find is that someone is using a prohibited method. Obviously, Mayweather doesn't fall into this category because the IV was approved. Many posters have stated this over, and over, and over, and over, and over.... Please stop!

If it was someone like Canelo or one of those that rehydrates 20lbs and did not, I would certainly be on your side but that is not Floyd. Still, walking weight is not training weight. When you are in training, often you are in much better shape and lose the fat and so on. Not hard to understand.

Floyd's walking weight is close to his weight training weight but like I said, you do not go by that. You assess it the way studies have stated and so has USADA.

Actually, when you are in training, you are much more likely to be dehydrated. I think this is common sense.

You are still ignoring that he could have been dehydrated.
"Symptoms of chronic dehydration will begin to appear when the body loses as little as two to three percent of total body water."

http://www.waterbenefitshealth.com/symptoms-of-chronic-dehydration.html

He doesn't have to be like Canelo for dehydration to occur. Chronic dehydration could have occurred and may not have been remedied until the IV.

Secondly, we saw that Floyd was drinking orally and his weight after that was around the weight that he walked in on fight night. Floyd was walking and many said that he was ready to beat Manny up. Even KO him (lol)

Dude, you didn't weigh him after drinking the water and no one else did either. Stop with the speculation. Now your proof is that people saw him and said he would KO Manny? Your proof are his fans? Real proof needed!

Also Floyd did not say it was due to a sickness. Floyd just said it was due to training, giving urine and blood. Floyd was not coming back from any rigorous exercise, gave blood 10 days before and giving urine, well its all a lie! but as I stated, his weight was relatively stable. Science is science!!!

I don't know if he had any type of sickness or not, and neither do you. I don't know what his training consisted of up to that point, and as far as I know, neither do you. If you have some information on that, by way of video or reliable witness, please share it. PROOF PLEASE!

And once again, having stable weight does not preclude him from being dehydrated! He started from in the least 151lbs and was down to 146. It is quite possible that he became dehydrated along the way. In the last week, he still lost 2.5lbs. If he had become dehydrated and never addressed the dehydration, it's clear he could have experienced chronic dehydration, which fits the TUE requirements.

Floyd also said walking back to his car after the weigh in that he had to even go bet on basketball and did. Was this really a guy in an emergency type situation as would be required to get an IV? Plus if Floyd did all that, I'm sure that he was drinking and eating after the weigh in as well.

I've gone over this with you over and over again. There need not have been an emergency for him to be granted the TUE. Instead of reposting the ISTUE as I've done many times, please show PROOF that the ISTUE calls for an emergency in order that the TUE be granted.

but remember:
"The use of IV infusions in sport is commonly linked with rehydration after
exhaustive effort, and this situation is arguably the major cause of debate. It must be understood that the use of IV fluid replacement following exercise to correct mild to moderate dehydration is not clinically indicated nor substantiated by the medical literature. There is a well-established body of scientific evidence to confirm that oral rehydration is the preferred the****utic choice, potentially even more effective than IV infusion."

Oral hydration is preferred and POTENTIALLY more effective. Got it.

It must be clear that a physician and USADA believed it wasn't preferred in this case because a physician signed the TUE application and USADA approved it.

[Zaroku]

Who is "they," and where is the research that says many boxers who are tested by anti-doping agencies that follow the WADA code are juicing and slipping through the cracks. Again, proof. I need it. PLEASE POST IT. REALLY. I'd love to know how they know many are slipping through the cracks...if they are slipping through the cracks.


You do realize that to prove masking, you have to prove he had PEDs in his system, right? Proof?


Say what? You are giving misleading information. It's not that they "find someone is masking" because they have no proof of masking without PED use being proven. What they can find is that someone is using a prohibited method. Obviously, Mayweather doesn't fall into this category because the IV was approved. Many posters have stated this over, and over, and over, and over, and over.... Please stop!



Actually, when you are in training, you are much more likely to be dehydrated. I think this is common sense.

You are still ignoring that he could have been dehydrated.
"Symptoms of chronic dehydration will begin to appear when the body loses as little as two to three percent of total body water."

http://www.waterbenefitshealth.com/symptoms-of-chronic-dehydration.html

He doesn't have to be like Canelo for dehydration to occur. Chronic dehydration could have occurred and may not have been remedied until the IV.


Dude, you didn't weigh him after drinking the water and no one else did either. Stop with the speculation. Now your proof is that people saw him and said he would KO Manny? Your proof are his fans? Real proof needed!


I don't know if he had any type of sickness or not, and neither do you. I don't know what his training consisted of up to that point, and as far as I know, neither do you. If you have some information on that, by way of video or reliable witness, please share it. PROOF PLEASE!

And once again, having stable weight does not preclude him from being dehydrated! He started from in the least 151lbs and was down to 146. It is quite possible that he became dehydrated along the way. In the last week, he still lost 2.5lbs. If he had become dehydrated and never addressed the dehydration, it's clear he could have experienced chronic dehydration, which fits the TUE requirements.


I've gone over this with you over and over again. There need not have been an emergency for him to be granted the TUE. Instead of reposting the ISTUE as I've done many times, please show PROOF that the ISTUE calls for an emergency in order that the TUE be granted.


Oral hydration is preferred and POTENTIALLY more effective. Got it.

It must be clear that a physician and USADA believed it wasn't preferred in this case because a physician signed the TUE application and USADA approved it.

Their Lord and Savior, with less than a 60% KO ratio failed to defeat Floyd in the ring.

Now, going on a year, in 6 weeks, PAC fans struggle to find hope. They attack what happened outside of the ring. Two fools committed suicide because Manny lost, pact@rd lives matter too! I think it is great that you have gone above and beyond, boxing fan expectations and tried to reason with them!

Notice that if Manny makes an excuse, it becomes a fact, even if he was lying!!
It becomes a fact to his fans, who have abandoned all reason and accountability, like women often do.

PAC needed the half German Filipina to get revenge for him..
I point to this UN related beauty contest to show that you are dealing with very irrational people!

Keep up the good fight... You may be the guy who talks them down from the ledge they are thinking of jumping from!

[travestyny]

I added the red and blue highlighted text. Its quite clear now

I put your responses in blue, my responses in red.

What are the facts of this case?
1. He took a 750ml IV.
Which is illegal
Not with a TUE. If it were illegal, he would have been found in violation of the WADA code. That is what you call proof.

2. It was approved by USADA
NSAC called it "Unacceptable"
Conte said "its against the rules"
Critics said "Floyd was not significantly dehydrated to warrant an IV.
How does that prove USADA didn't approve it? It's obvious that they did. NSAC stated Mayweather did nothing wrong. Conte can't tell USADA what is against their rules! lol. Obviously it's not against their rules since they did it and no one has had the nerve to make a real go at them about it.

3. It couldn't mask tests taken the next day.
I gave you 2 scenarios which makes this point irrelevant.
This is just a deflection. The date in question is May 1st. That is when Floyd delayed 6 hours to give his urine. Drank orally a lot and used an IV. All this will mask and distort the test. This goes against what even USADA preaches
Again, this doesn't prove the statement I provided is false. Your hypothetical situations don't change anything. Furthermore, where is the proof that he waited 6 hours to give urine? He gave a partial urine sample before the IV. Lastly, this clearly doesn't go against what USADA preaches since they approved the IV use.

4. He gave a partial urine sample before the IV.
Was it a drop, maybe more. Was it after a delay of 5 hours? It was then mixed with the sample after getting an IV.
This doesn't change that it is a fact. I can play this game, too. Was it just a smidget below what would have been necessary to complete the urine sample? Was it right away when the DCO arrived at Mayweather's home (likely). Would mixing it in with the post IV urine have a significant effect on the outcome of the test. You never answered this because you know that if he was dirty, even mixing it in would make him more susceptible to failing.

5. He passed 19 drug tests.
Lance Armstrong passed 200+ tests.
A. This is about Lance, not Mayweather, and again does not disprove the fact (I see a trend).
B. It is believed that this number from Lance is terribly inflated.
"Armstrong’s account of how often he has been tested has varied. His lawyers, according to the report, have indicated that he provided samples 500 to 600 times over 14 years.

Usada said it tested Armstrong only 60 times, and it cited reports indicating that the International Cycling Union had tested him about 200 times, although Usada said many of the cycling union’s tests were for a health program rather than for prohibited substances.

“The number of actual controls on Mr. Armstrong over the years appears to have been considerably fewer than the number claimed by Armstrong and his lawyers,” Usada said."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/sp...ests.html?_r=0

Keep in mind that he has failed retroactive tests. When Mayweather fails retroactive tests, you can look me up and gloat. Until then....show PROOF!



What are your accusations for which you have no proof for?

1. He wasn't severely dehydrated (yet the ISTUE doesn't mention that he had to be).
WADA says this:
The use of IV infusions in sport is commonly linked with rehydration after exhaustive effort, and this situation is arguably the major cause of debate. It must be understood that the use of IV fluid replacement following exercise to correct mild to moderate dehydration is not clinically indicated nor substantiated by the medical literature. There is a well-established body of scientific evidence to confirm that oral rehydration is the preferred the****utic choice, potentially even more effective than IV infusion
WHERE IN THIS STATEMENT DOES IT SAY THAT HE HAS TO BE SEVERELY DEHYDRATED TO RECEIVE THE TUE??? WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE STATEMENT????


2. He micro-dosed (No proof)
Floyd masked with an IV. Distorted the evidence!
WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT HE MASKED? SHOW IT! THIS IS NOT PROOF!


3. He masked (No proof)
IVs are used to mask. If Floyd's weight was relatively stable. Then it had to be for another reason. IV distorted the evidence!
IV's are not always used to mask. PLEASE SHOW PROOF THAT EVERY INSTANCE THAT AN ATHLETE USES AN IV IS FOR MASKING PURPOSES!

4. He paid off USADA (No proof)
Floyd's representatives paid USADA 150K for 1 fight!!!
Lance's representatives paid UCI 100K for a year for drug testing. USADA called that unethical!!!!!!!!!
NSAC wasn't going to pay for the extra testing. I'm guessing the lead promotor would be required to pay. That was Maywether Promotions, not Mayweather the man. Furthermore, I'm not sure if Pacquaio also contributed to this payment or not. I've read some posters say that he was. Do you know for sure?

Furthermore, you are giving misleading information. You know that by "paid off" I mean he gave funds for consideration in helping him to cheat, not funds for the purposes of their services in administering drug tests.


6. He masked again. (No proof)
See response to 3
See response #2.

7. Lance did it, so Mayweather did it (Anecdotal fallacy – using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of sound reasoning or compelling evidence.)
You are implying that it was difficult for Floyd to have used PEDs. Right? Insert Lance's name when you say that next time and then laugh then erase what you just wrote. That would be simpler!!!
I'm not implying anything. I'm stating the fact that he passed 19 drug and urine tests. How about this. I'll insert Pacquaio's name since he also passed 19 drug and urine tests. According to you, he could have also taken IVs. According to you, it's also possible he micro-dosed. So...guilty?

It was a big waste of my time to reply to this. I told you, post facts and proof. If not, please don't bother me about this topic anymore.

[travestyny]

Keep up the good fight... You may be the guy who talks them down from the ledge they are thinking of jumping from!

It's clear that no one will ever be able to talk them down from that ledge. That's for sure!!!

[Zaroku]

It's clear that no one will ever be able to talk them down from that ledge. That's for sure!!!

Agreed! You can't fix ******!

They sleep with images of PAC dancing in their heads.

[travestyny]

But after the may 2 event. MMA decided to ban IVS completely. Since these are for masking peds, and you'd be dumb not to see how amped these fighters are. Comparing boxers body to MMA. MMA looks juiced up amped.
.

This is misleading. MMA made a deal with USADA to administer drug testing for their company. The deal places MMA fighters under the WADA code, which prohibits IVs (beyond a certain amount of IV fluid) without a TUE.

It's not specifically that MMA wanted to ban IVs. It's more that they wanted USADA to be in control of drug testing.

Yes, the same USADA that you believe is crooked and took money from Mayweather to help him cheat.

[Spoon23]

The same usada that has only caught one professional boxer in the span of 5 years.

The same usada that recieved 150k from a boxer named Floyd.

The same usada who is under Wada.

The same usada that now has a stricter ruling in applying Tue. Now tues should be applied before a fight not after 3 weeks.

Shows how much mockery has been done in the sport we love.

[Zaroku]

ADP doesn't realize that common sense knowledge minus the advent of medical technology and for a grand millenia x 100, of course the preferred choice is oral intake. It's a universal medical book. If some bloke in a 3rd country miles away from a hospital wouldn't even consider an IV, just drink water. And that's even out of the context because in this particular combat sport where weight expectations are a huge factor and known practice for IVs...and every boxer in that last context tested for substances just like May 2 bout protocols... [sarcasm]

But we already went over these things at the advent of the thread.

SKH,

How many T@rds are we down to?? 3 or 4?
They do make a lot of idiotic threads.

Trying to save a t@rd might be like trying to save a ho... She is gonna believe and ride divk!!! Similar scenario here. PAC's diminiutuve tool is worn down by the t@rds!

[travestyny]

The same usada that has only caught one professional boxer in the span of 5 years.

How many professional boxers have they tested in the past 5 years? Wouldn't testing by USADA, which is more stringent than having the commissions test, serve as a deterrent for boxers to even try to cheat the tests?

The same usada that recieved 150k from a boxer ned Floyd.

From Floyd, or from Mayweather Promotions? Also, did Pacquaio contribute to this fee? Just an honest question.

The same usada who is under Wada.

Yea. Not sure what you meant by this one.

The same usada that now has a stricter ruling in applying Tue. Now tues should be applied before a fight not after 3 weeks.

Is this true? Just an honest question. Can you link me to this adjustment?

[original zero]

"The same usada that has only caught one professional boxer in the span of 5 years."

This silly line is thrown around a lot in this thread.

A couple points . . .

#1 - USADA is only testing the professional boxers that sought out and volunteered (and were willing to pay for) USADA testing. A dirty fighter wouldn't do this. So OF COURSE USADA isn't catching many boxers. Why would you voluntarily hire USADA to test you if you're doping?

If USADA was mandatory for all fighters, then that line would make sense. But since USADA is used by a select few who want more testing, obviously there are going to be very few failures because it's clean fighters hiring USADA to prove they are clean (and make sure their opponent is clean).

#2 - USADA is the organization that brought down Lance Armstrong. An American hero. They were absolutely relentless to catch him at all costs. The idea that they would protect Mayweather, a hated villain, when they had no problem bringing down Armstrong, a beloved hero, is ridiculous.

All of Floyd's samples had CIR testing done. USADA has a biological passport on Floyd. If he uses anything synthetic, USADA will know.